Latin: "Agnus Dei"...what comes next?

[AFallingStar]

Hello! My parish has recently started singing the Lamb of God in Latin during the Mass, which I think is really beautiful, but I don't know all the words (I was at another church the weekend they practiced, apparently) and I was wondering if someone could help me out...

It is three lines, sung starting with the words Agnus Dei, and then I don't know what follows...possibly the word pollis at some point...I really have no clue. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

God bless!

 

[NDIrish]

Agnus Dei, qui tolis peccata mundi, miserere nobis.
Agnus Dei, qui tolis peccata mundi, miserere nobis.
Agnus Dei, qui tolis peccata mundi, dona nobis pacem.

 

[AFallingStar]

Thanks so much!

 

[MariaRegina]

Does Latin have a dentalized /t/ like Spanish?

She heard /p/ so I was just wondering.

The high front /i/ in 'qui' might cause the /t/ to move forward when articulating that sound, giving a /p/ sound.




I guess you can tell that I am fascinated with sounds.

In Christ,
Linguist Elizabeth

 

[NDIrish]

Does Latin have a dentalized /t/ like Spanish?

She heard /p/ so I was just wondering.

The high front /i/ in 'qui' might cause the /t/ to move forward when articulating that sound, giving a /p/ sound.




I guess you can tell that I am fascinated with sounds.

In Christ,
Linguist Elizabeth

I know how to pronounce the words, but I have no idea what you just asked...

 

[MariaRegina]

A dentalized /t/ is a 't' pronounced with the tongue placed touching the back of the big front teeth or it can be placed interdentally (but not protruding) between the two front teeth.

In English, we pronounce a /t/ with the tongue touching the alveolar ridge -- that area of the roof of the mouth that has a slight bulge on which the hot cheese on a pizza burns or peanut butter gets stuck. So the English /t/ is called alveolar.

In Spanish, they have a dentalized or even interdentalized /t/ as I described above.

So, the question is, does Latin have the dentalized /t/ too?

 

[NDIrish]

Heh...I still didn't understand.

Someone smarter than me is going to have to chime in.

 

[isshinwhat]

...Looking into it...

 

[isshinwhat]

It does appear to be dentalized, Elizabeth. Qui "th"ollis... I tried to call Father, but he jsut stepped out. I will find out and let you know the ins and outs...

 

[MariaRegina]

Thanks Neal.

I cringed when I heard Panis Angelicus being sung by a non-Catholic choir who pronounced /o/ in hominum as /ou/ like in boat

Panis Angelicus fit panis hominum.


In Miserere nobis, some people tend to mispronounce the nobis with a long /ou/ sound.


I guess people will really need to study Latin preferably taught by an Italian or Spanish native speaker.

 

[stray bullet]

Here is a recording of it:

http://www.fssp.com/main/audio/ICD-21.mp3

 

[Servus Iesu]

I don't think anyone knows how Latin should be pronounced. German classics scholars came up with a 'classical' pronunciation, but in Church we use 'ecclesiastical' pronunciation, which is basically Italian (eg: in 'classical' pronunciation all of the consonants are hard, whereas certain vowels soften consonants in ecclesiastical Latin).

I know that h is very soft or even silent in Latin. Interestingly enough, the Romans also apparently pronounced a very weak 'm'. We know this because words which end in 'm' elide in Latin verse. I don't know anything about 't', except that the 'th' sound doesn't exist in Latin, so I pronounce 'Catholicam' as 'Catolicam'. Then again, it is a Greek word, so who knows how the Romans would have pronounced a Greek word. It irritates me though when I hear Ca-th-olicam.

The truth is that we use Italianized Latin overlaid with the speech idiosyncracies of the native language in a given area.

 

[ProCommunioneFacior]

Here is a recording of it:
http://www.fssp.com/main/audio/ICD-02.mp3

That's the Kyrie...

Here's the Agnus Dei

http://fssp.com/main/audio/ICD-21.mp3

 

[stray bullet]

Oops, that's was weird. Fixed the link.

 

[isshinwhat]

Right, the "th" is not the same as in Catholic... Really the only way I can describe it is the tongue does not go between the teeth like the "th" in thought, nor is it as hard as a "t" said where the tongue hits the roof of the mouth. It hits the back of the teeth and softens sound.