Karl Marx's Communist Manifesto

[abm]

Examine the 10 planks of Karl Marx's Communist Manifesto and see if they seem to be "present" in our society and government today.


* Abolition of private property
* Heavy progressive income tax
* Abolition of rights of inheritance (say, a 51% inheritance tax?)
* Confiscation of property rights
* Central Bank
* Government ownership of communication and transportation
* Government ownership of factories and agriculture
* Government control of labor
* Corporate farms, regional planning
* Government control of education.

What do you think? Can you see them?

If you really want to help me out, respond to this on my forum at:
http://agapeplace.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8

 

[Ray K]

Examine the 10 planks of Karl Marx's Communist Manifesto and see if they seem to be "present" in our society and government today.


* Abolition of private property

Nope. This is a KEY distinction between capitalism and communism. I own my home and my car.

* Heavy progressive income tax

Nope. A "heavy" progressive income tax would be something like the 95% marginal rate of Great Britain a few decades ago.

* Abolition of rights of inheritance (say, a 51% inheritance tax?)

Nope. When my father passed away recently, his estate was taxed at 0% because it was less than $600,000. That limit has since been raised significantly and I believe that they are about to do away with it, altogether.

* Confiscation of property rights

Nope. Fortunately, Patriot Act III is still in the planning stages

* Central Bank

Nope. We have a Federal Reserve, but my money's in a member-owned Credit Union.

* Government ownership of communication and transportation

Nope.

* Government ownership of factories and agriculture

Nope.

* Government control of labor

Nope.

* Corporate farms, regional planning

Nope.

* Government control of education.

Nope. Thousands and thousands of parents home-school their kids

What do you think? Can you see them?

Nope.

If you really want to help me out, respond to this on my forum at:
http://agapeplace.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8

Nope.

 

[Clay]

Ray K, they may not all be present now, or in full swing, but you can definately see the beginnings of such ideals being slowly planted in society. everyone wants government to fix and do everything for them. FDR introduced socialism in the early 20th century and thankfully it failed, but we are still feeling the effects of it today. it would not surprise me if this country left its republic roots in a matter of decades and fell to communism or marxism.

 

[Ray K]

Ray K, they may not all be present now, or in full swing, but you can definately see the beginnings of such ideals being slowly planted in society. everyone wants government to fix and do everything for them. FDR introduced socialism in the early 20th century and thankfully it failed, but we are still feeling the effects of it today. it would not surprise me if this country left its republic roots in a matter of decades and fell to communism or marxism.

First of all, communism as an economic theory is dead.

DEAD, DEAD, DEAD.

I do not see the trends you see. In fact, I see them going the other way!

Much of government-controlled transportation and communication has been privatized and/or deregulated in recent decades. Home-schooling is on an upswing. The inheritance tax is being abolished. The high-income tax rate is being cut DESPITE the government running record deficits. All of these things run counter to the suggestion that our country is moving towards communism.

You people need to get out of the Fifties. The Soviet Union has collapsed. Red China is moving towards a market economy. Face it: the Red Scare is long over, and we have bigger problems to worry about than the few remaining communist countries gasping on life support.

 

[kiwimac]

I just love the confusion of socialism with communism, kind of like conflating Republicanism with Nazism as they are, after all, both right-wing!


As for Karl Marx, you might want to reconsider your stance on poor old Karl. He was the one who said:

"Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the sentiment of a heartless world, and the soul of souless conditions. It is the opium of the people"

Bear in mind that opium had just come on the scene as an anaesthetic in operating theatres and you have a feel for the meaning of the quote.

Kiwimac

 

[Clay]

You people need to get out of the Fifties. The Soviet Union has collapsed. Red China is moving towards a market economy. Face it: the Red Scare is long over, and we have bigger problems to worry about than the few remaining communist countries gasping on life support.

those who are ignorant about the past are doomed to repeat it.

the fifties? the soviet union offically collapsed in 1990-1992. Red China is still the most powerful communistic country while developing nuclear weapons. who said anything about a Red Scare anyway? if you call someone being concerned about the condition of this nation a scare, then we all must be in a chaotic panic 24/7.

gasping on life support? what do you call korea, vietnam, china, cuba? countries with tremendous power where most "free" nations are not willing to stand up to them.

 

[abm]

I just love the confusion of socialism with communism, kind of like conflating Republicanism with Nazism as they are, after all, both right-wing!

Kiwimac

I guess you could say that in our "modern" times that communism's socialistic ways are deemed responcible for most of the world's problems, but it is interesting that most of the world's great nations also hold to socialstic ways.

It's all about power. Socialism, communism, Marxism ... it's all about power. In this world of sin people, and nations, become great because of their power. It is this great temptation of power that has caused our coutry to leave it's republic roots.

---

www.agapeplace.com

 

[paulewog]

communism is sort of an extreme socialism.

America is definitely more socialistic than it was.

I think that the downard trend, Ray K., that you see is largely because of the few good presidents we've had recently.

The more taxes and such you have, the less freedom and the more government-dishing-out of stuff and government-making-things-fair you get.

Communism SHOULD be dead, it hasn't worked so far, in the numerous attempts.

Not to mention that Karl Marx was supported by a capitalist, basically. He owned a factory.

And the central unit in any society, the family - Marx's family life was not so good.

 

[ACougar]

I guess you could say that in our "modern" times that communism's socialistic ways are deemed responcible for most of the world's problems, but it is interesting that most of the world's great nations also hold to socialstic ways.

It's all about power. Socialism, communism, Marxism ... it's all about power. In this world of sin people, and nations, become great because of their power. It is this great temptation of power that has caused our coutry to leave it's republic roots.

---

www.agapeplace.com

Jesus was a socialist.

Socialism is about compasion, food for the poor, healthcare for the sick, clothes for the naked. While you can easily go overboard and remove all motivation to struggle for excellance, pure capitalism turns the world back into a jungle. You want to read about what socialism should be, read the sermon on the mount. Study the early church. Capitalism on the other hand is all about greed, everyone is forced into a rat race for survival with no safety net.

The trick of course is finding the perfect balance.

 

[Isaac112086]

The US isn't leaning away from a republican form of goverement, it already has embraced democracy and threw republicism to the way side. In truth Communism failed once, Lenin's death. No "communist" nation brought to be during the rule of Stalin or his predesors even tried to be communist, they merely tried to be totalitarian. The biggest failure of communism (and socialism and anarchism) is the rise of Franco, Mussiline and Hitler, who gained support by denouncing these revoultionary movements, while claiming there banner as there own (Hitler's National Socialist Party and Franco's National Syndicisit Party)... but even with out The socialist, communist, anarchist, and trotsyist the stalinist may of been enough to support the counter revoultionatu movements, and that counter revoultionary movemtn would of borrowed from Stalin rather then Marx and Lenin and Trotsky, and varios nameless anarhcist phylosipheres, borrowed and perverted...

 

[abm]

Jesus was a socialist.

Socialism is about compasion, food for the poor, healthcare for the sick, clothes for the naked.

Socialism is a term we use to describe a nation-wide governmental structure. Jesus was a Jew, and lived in a Roman occupied world. He taught us to respect and obey the laws and authority that governments have over us, but He was not a socialist. Socialism has nothing to do with love, which Jesus was all about, but controll.

Jesus taught us (the people who are saved, and serve Him) that we are to love as He does. Not the good feeling romantic love, but "agape" love, which is unconditional love. Jesus taught that it was His desiples job to have compasion, to give food to the poor, to care for the sick, to cloth the nakid. He gave His deciples that responcibility, but in recent years the Church has forgotten that because the government has "taken over" this duty.

Socialism has nothing to do with religion, and religion has nothing to do with Socialism. They are two very destenctly different things, it's like trying to put a square peg in a round hole . . . it just doesn't belong there.

 

[ACougar]

Socialism is a term we use to describe a nation-wide governmental structure. Jesus was a Jew, and lived in a Roman occupied world. He taught us to respect and obey the laws and authority that governments have over us, but He was not a socialist. Socialism has nothing to do with love, which Jesus was all about, but controll.

Jesus taught us (the people who are saved, and serve Him) that we are to love as He does. Not the good feeling romantic love, but "agape" love, which is unconditional love. Jesus taught that it was His desiples job to have compasion, to give food to the poor, to care for the sick, to cloth the nakid. He gave His deciples that responcibility, but in recent years the Church has forgotten that because the government has "taken over" this duty.

Socialism has nothing to do with religion, and religion has nothing to do with Socialism. They are two very destenctly different things, it's like trying to put a square peg in a round hole . . . it just doesn't belong there.

Here in America we pride ourselves in having a government by the people, of the people, for the people. All religions teach compasion, all religions teach us to love our fellow man, that is especially true of the teachings of Jesus. Yet today many Christians want to absolve government of that responsibility, claiming that it is the Church that shuld fulfill that responsibility. Talk about being desperate for power, your not interested in feeding the poor or clothing the naked. Your interested in prostelizing your religion to people who will then be forced to come to you in order to fed, clothed and hospitalized. You find it offensive that the American people (Muslims, Hindu's and CHristians) seek to heal the sick, clothe, the naked and insure that everyone has an equal opportunity to succeced in this country together... Very ugly and unbecoming of a loving religion.

 

[Lanakila]

You have just lamblasted and attacked all church run charities with one swipe. The government can do what they want as far as feeding the poor, but they usually do alot less with alot more money, that they take from us the taxpayers. The government run burocracies have a mountain of paperwork to get one penny and very strict rules. Most people would rather listen to a sermon for their lunch than fill out the paperwork, and jump through the hoops.

But, many charities don't don't even try to evangelize. But, IMO although they have good intentions, if those they are helping have no idea why, then what are they doing it for?

 

[abm]

Thank you Lanakila for the backup. I agree totally with your post.

 

[foolsparade]

what are they doing it for Lanakila?? For the love and compassion of life and humanity, what thats not good enough?

 

[abm]

Quoted from another room on the same topic:

These are the actual 10 taken from the communist manifesto. They seem to be a little different than the 10 quoted in the opening post ...

1. Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes.

2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.

3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance.

4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.

5. Centralisation of credit in the banks of the state, by means of a national bank with state capital and an exclusive monopoly.

6. Centralisation of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the state.

7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the state; the bringing into cultivation of waste lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.

8. Equal obligation of all to work. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.

9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of all the distinction between town and country by a more equable distribution of the populace over the country.

10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labour in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, etc.

​

 

[Brimshack]

Well, we've seen this bit of disinformation before. Please note especially post # 12, by David Gould:

http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=29143

 

[Lanakila]

Yes but if you give them food and drink for the body and nothing for the spirit, when that is more important, then why. Jesus said if we do these things in his name we have done it unto him, but if those we do it for don't know what name we are doing it in, is it still in Jesus name? That is what I mean. This is more a challenge to Christians to speak the gospel, not just live it.

 

[abm]

Well, we've seen this bit of disinformation before. Please note especially post # 12, by David Gould:

http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=29143[/QUOTE]

Thank you Brimshack for noting where I found this.

 

[Brimshack]

Actually, my point was to cross-apply the criticisms which have already been leveled at this blurb. If you've taken no note of them the first time around, then I suppose there is no point in posting them again.