Justice

[Soul Searcher]

I was watching peoples court just the other day and the judge gave a definition of justice saying that justice was to make whole. What do you guys think of this definition?

 

[martymonster]

Hmm?

are you sure that's what it means?

I keep hearing that justice has something to do with getting revenge, and the more horrible the revenge the more just the judge that you are!

apparently (what people keep telling me) is that the most horrible punishment you can give for the most different degree of crimes, makes you the ultimate just judge!

it doesn't matter if you stole a loaf of bread to feed your starving children because a corrupt official took everything you have, or if you killed and torchered 60,000 000 of your own people, a just judge would dish out the same punishment!

I also hear that justice is completely different to love, in any way, shape of form.
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[Soul Searcher]

Do I detect a note of sarcasm?

 

[Soul Searcher]

The judge was explaining that the purpose of justice was to make whole, to replace that which was lost. In some cases our courts are capable of doing this and in some cases not. If you damage someones property justice would be that you repair or replace the damaged property for example.

Revenge is never justice, nor can it be.

 

[martymonster]

Do I detect a note of sarcasm?

Whadoyamean?

 

[hairettic]

I know when I think of justice, I also think of fair. My kids are always wanting me to make a judgement on their scwabbles. And rarely am I concluded in doing so fairly! However, I believe God will judge in a way that in the end all parties involved walk away thinking. NOW THAT WAS FAIR~

 

[red77]

The judge was explaining that the purpose of justice was to make whole, to replace that which was lost. In some cases our courts are capable of doing this and in some cases not. If you damage someones property justice would be that you repair or replace the damaged property for example.

Revenge is never justice, nor can it be.

Exactly, sometimes I'm amazed at how often the two are confused.......

 

[Pneuma3]

The judge was explaining that the purpose of justice was to make whole, to replace that which was lost. In some cases our courts are capable of doing this and in some cases not. If you damage someones property justice would be that you repair or replace the damaged property for example.

Revenge is never justice, nor can it be.

According to the OT justice was the replacement of ones property.

If memory serves me correct if a bull of one man killed one of another mans the owner of the one that killed had to make restitution to the owner of the one that as slain by replacing his bull.

 

[Soul Searcher]

According to the OT justice was the replacement of ones property.

If memory serves me correct if a bull of one man killed one of another mans the owner of the one that killed had to make restitution to the owner of the one that as slain by replacing his bull.

Yes one of the few examples of justice in the ot. Not really a good place to look though imo as related to the bull we also have that if it gets loose and kills a man both the owner and the ox are to be killed. If it kills a servant then the ox is to be killed and the master of the servant is to be paid 30 pieces of silver. Not to mention numerous instances where people are to be brutally executed for various offenses.

It seems clear to me that the laws in the OT come mostly from the minds of men and not from God.

 

[Pneuma3]

Yes one of the few examples of justice in the ot. Not really a good place to look though imo as related to the bull we also have that if it gets loose and kills a man both the owner and the ox are to be killed. If it kills a servant then the ox is to be killed and the master of the servant is to be paid 30 pieces of silver. Not to mention numerous instances where people are to be brutally executed for various offenses.

It seems clear to me that the laws in the OT come mostly from the minds of men and not from God.[/quote]

Well the scriptures do state Moses changed Gods laws becuase of the hardness of the peoples hearts.

 

[Soul Searcher]

It seems clear to me that the laws in the OT come mostly from the minds of men and not from God.

Well the scriptures do state Moses changed Gods laws becuase of the hardness of the peoples hearts.

Yes, and we have Jesus explaining how God wants mercy not sacrifice and explaining how we should not return evil for evil as would be the case in the eye for an eye brand of justice.

 

[hairettic]

I was so blown away when I realized Jesus was quoting Hosea 6:6. "for I desire Mercy and not scarifice, And the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings." I have always loved Hosea as a book. To me it shows how HE has never changed. It has just been another thing we got wrong.

 

[Pneuma3]

I was so blown away when I realized Jesus was quoting Hosea 6:6. "for I desire Mercy and not scarifice, And the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings." I have always loved Hosea as a book. To me it shows how HE has never changed. It has just been another thing we got wrong.

Well I would not say you were wrong sis.

Myself and SS had a little discussion along these lines before. Heres one post I made concerning things along this line.

KJV
Jer 7:22 For I spoke not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:
Jer 7:23 But this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you.


First thing I would point out is God gave the Law written in stone BEFORE He gave the commands concerning burnt offerings and sacrifices.

In the day God brought the people out of Egypt He gave commands for us to OBEY HIS VOICE but the people would not listen to OBEY HIS VOICE so God commanded burnt offerings and sacrifices for the people.

If the people had OBEYED HIS VOICE then there would have been not need of burnt offerings and sacrifices. But because of the peoples disobedience God instituted a way for man to come before Him in repentance by burnt offerings and sacrifices.

We see this very principal brought out in

1 Samuel 15:22
22 And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.

God has far more delight in our obedience then He has in us having to offer up burnt offerings and sacrifices for our sins. If we OBEY Him we have no need of sacrifices.

If you read the whole chapter of Jer.7 you will see that the people seemed to think that they could continue in sin because all’s they then had to do is offer up burnt offerings and sacrifices and God would forgive them their disobedience. They seem to be using the burnt offerings and sacrifices in order to continue living in a sinful way. They were using the burnt offerings and sacrifices WRONGLY for the burnt offerings and sacrifices were put in place by God for the purpose of when we disobeyed God we had a place of recovery from our disobedience. They were NOT put in place for us so we could disobey God and get away with it by means of burnt offerings and sacrifices.

To OBEY God is better then the need of SACRIFICE.

Brother do we not see this same thing today, people because of the sacrifices of Jesus Christ for every man use His sacrifice for our sin to continues to live in sin.

Is this not what Paul was pointing out here?

Romans 6:1-2
What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Anyway those are my thoughts along this line.

 

[hairettic]

I want to print that and hand out copies~!