Jesus went to Hades history

[sciana]

I know the concept that Jesus went to Hades is found in the Bible and in church history. Does anyone know when the idea that Jesus went to hell to suffer at the hands of Satan or otherwise was first taught? Is it found in church history or is it a recent teaching? If it is a recent teaching do you know who started teaching it?

Thanks!

 

[Solidlyhere]

The OP asks: "Does anyone know when the idea that Jesus went to hell to suffer at the hands of Satan or otherwise was first taught?"

I never heard of it.
It sounds pretty stupid.

WHERE did you hear about it?
Be specific.

If not, it sounds like a "fake" OP to me.

 

[ShammahBenJudah]

The OP asks: "Does anyone know when the idea that Jesus went to hell to suffer at the hands of Satan or otherwise was first taught?"

I never heard of it.
It sounds pretty stupid.

WHERE did you hear about it?
Be specific.

If not, it sounds like a "fake" OP to me.

No, I think its referring to the notion of the Spiritual Death of Jesus some are teaching these days.

I'm not sure about a history of it...would have to try and look it up.

 

[Simon Peter]

Perhaps this is the scripture you are thinking of:

Ephesians 4:9-10 NIV
9 (What does "he ascended" mean except that he also descended to the lower, earthly regions[3] ?
10 He who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens, in order to fill the whole universe.)

 

[Simon_Templar]

The idea that Jesus went into hell is original, meaning it has been taught since the time of the apostles and is in scripture.

However, in the original teaching, Jesus went into hell to proclaim his victory and to proclaim to the souls captive in hell that the gospel they had heard preached was true. He also took the keys of death and hell and as scripture says, led captivity captive.

There is no hint of Jesus suffering in hell in that teaching.

The idea that Jesus suffered in hell is a recent one. The idea itself is not present in scripture but rather is argued by some to be "implied" by other doctrines from scripture.
I can't say catagorically that no one ever put this idea forward before, after all as Solomon said "there is nothing new under the sun", but I've never heard of any historical source for it.

 

[DevotiontoBible]

The present day version of Jesus suffering in hell gets its start with EW Kenyon. But it is really a modern adjusted version of the Ransom theory of Atonement started by Gregory of Nyssa (ca 330-ca 395 AD).

 

[dkbwarrior]

I know the concept that Jesus went to Hades is found in the Bible and in church history. Does anyone know when the idea that Jesus went to hell to suffer at the hands of Satan or otherwise was first taught? Is it found in church history or is it a recent teaching? If it is a recent teaching do you know who started teaching it?

Thanks!

I am certain from scripture that Jesus both went to hell, was made to be sin, and suffered spiritual death, (defined as separation from the Father).

It can be argued that if His Spirit was separated from the Father, that this would have given satan every opportunity to victimize and torture Him in spirit, however, the scriptures provide no insight into this, if it is true.

I think we should remain silent on what the scriptures have remained silent on, rather than use conjecture. God has chosen to not reveal all of this to us at this time. I am sure there is a reason.

I know some have preached this from my camp, even those whom I respect and admire and support financially. But I am not fully on board with this concept for the reasons given above.

In my minds eye the movie always plays this way: Jesus Spirit is on its way down to hell, bound in the chains of our sin. He is thrown down before the devil, who is gleefully rubbing his hands together in anticipation of torturing the Son of God. But just as he reaches for Jesus, the Zoe life of God is injected into the Spirit of the Christ, and a bright white light shines out blinding the devil and his demons, who cower away in fear, covering their eyes. Jesus leaps to his feet, breaking the chains of all our sin that was placed on Him, and proceeds to chop up the devil and His cohorts with the shining sword of the Spirit, stripping him of the keys of hell and death, and arising like a streak of lightening to paradise, where He victoriously proclaims liberty to th saints of Old, leading them up and out of paradise to reclaim their bodies from the grave.

Peace...

 

[DevotiontoBible]

I am certain from scripture that Jesus both went to hell, and suffered spiritual death, (defined as separation from the Father).

It can be argued that if His Spirit was separated from the Father, that this would have given satan every opportunity to victimize and torture Him in spirit, however, the scriptures provide no insight into this, if it is true.

I think we should remain silent on what the scriptures have remained silent on, rather than use conjecture. God has chosen to not reveal all of this to us at this time. I am sure there is a reason.

I know some have preached this from my camp, even those whom I respect and admire and support financially. But I am not fully on board with this concept for the reasons given above.

Peace...

But the Scripture is not silent on this issue. Jesus never was spiritually separated from the Father:
Lk 23:46
46 And Jesus, crying out with a loud voice, said, "Father, INTO YOUR HANDS I COMMIT MY SPIRIT." Having said this, He breathed His last.
NASU

Jesus was spiritually with the Father on the cross and from the moment of His death on!

 

[dkbwarrior]

But the Scripture is not silent on this issue. Jesus never was spiritually separated from the Father:
Lk 23:46
46 And Jesus, crying out with a loud voice, said, "Father, INTO YOUR HANDS I COMMIT MY SPIRIT." Having said this, He breathed His last.
NASU

Jesus was spiritually with the Father on the cross and from the moment of His death on!

46And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
-Matthew 27:46

One of two things is going on here:

1) Jesus was correct and the Father had forsaken Him on the cross

2) Jesus was mistaken and said an untruth

I'll go with number 1.

Of course He committed His Spirit to the Father, because He knew how the story was to end. This was His confession of faith in the promise of God. It was written that the Father would quicken Him in the grave, and He believed it.

Peace...

 

[DevotiontoBible]

46And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
-Matthew 27:46

One of two things is going on here:

1) Jesus was correct and the Father had forsaken Him on the cross

2) Jesus was mistaken and said an untruth

I'll go with number 1.

Of course He committed His Spirit to the Father, because He knew how the story was to end. This was His confession of faith in the promise of God. It was written that the Father would quicken Him in the grave, and He believed it.

Peace...

Notice, Jesus did not say "why have you forsaken me spiritually?" You are reading into the text what isn't there. If you read PS 22 it never mentions anything about a spiritual separation. Ps 22 is all about the physical torture of the cross. Jesus suffered physically to atone for our sins, went to hell to preach His victory to the disobedient spirits, and rose to life on the third day...never once being separated spiritually from the Father.

 

[dkbwarrior]

Notice, Jesus did not say "why have you forsaken me spiritually?" You are reading into the text what isn't there. If you read PS 22 it never mentions anything about a spiritual separation. Ps 22 is all about the physical torture of the cross.

Well, I doubt we will come to agreement here.

God is a Spirit. If He leaves, it is His Spirit that goes. And this is the biblical definition of death, ie., separation from Gods Spirit, from Gods life. How else could He forsake Jesus? Physically?

IMHO, you are reading into the text. Notice He did not say, "My spirit is going to heaven". He said, "Father, into your hands I commit my Spirit."

This was His confession of faith.

Just like when He said about Lazarus, "This sickness is not unto death", and then Lazarus died.

In both these cases He was speaking the end result, calling those things which be not as though they were, because He knew what the promise of God was, and believed that it would come to pass in the end, not because Lazarus would not die for a time, and not because He was not separated from the Father for a time.

Just as He believed that God would raise Lazarus from the dead, so He believed that God would raise Him from the dead.

Peace...

 

[DevotiontoBible]

Well, I doubt we will come to agreement here.

God is a Spirit. If He leaves, it is His Spirit that goes. And this is the biblical definition of death, ie., separation from Gods Spirit, from Gods life. How else could He forsake Jesus? Physically?

IMHO, you are reading into the text. Notice He did not say, "My spirit is going to heaven". He said, "Father, into your hands I commit my Spirit."

This was His confession of faith.

Just like when He said about Lazarus, "This sickness is not unto death", and then Lazarus died.

In both these cases He was speaking the end result, calling those things which be not as though they were, because He knew what the promise of God was, and believed that it would come to pass in the end, not because Lazarus would not die for a time, and not because He was not separated from the Father for a time.

Just as He believed that God would raise Lazarus from the dead, so He believed that God would raise Him from the dead.

Peace...

Common sense reading can never agree with you on this. The context is not "why have you forsaken me to spiritual separation" instead, Jesus is saying "why have you forsaken me to physical torture?"

 

[BenAdam]

Well, I doubt we will come to agreement here.

God is a Spirit. If He leaves, it is His Spirit that goes. And this is the biblical definition of death, ie., separation from Gods Spirit, from Gods life. How else could He forsake Jesus? Physically?

IMHO, you are reading into the text. Notice He did not say, "My spirit is going to heaven". He said, "Father, into your hands I commit my Spirit."

This was His confession of faith.

Just like when He said about Lazarus, "This sickness is not unto death", and then Lazarus died.

In both these cases He was speaking the end result, calling those things which be not as though they were, because He knew what the promise of God was, and believed that it would come to pass in the end, not because Lazarus would not die for a time, and not because He was not separated from the Father for a time.

Just as He believed that God would raise Lazarus from the dead, so He believed that God would raise Him from the dead.

Peace...

Could you please provide the source that says death is spiritual seperation from God?

 

[Faulty]

I never bought into the torture of Jesus in Hell either. However, He had to be separated from God. That was part of the deal. Jesus, who had no sin, had to be made sin for our sake. Since the Father cannot be sin, Jesus would need to separated from God during that time in order to be an acceptable sacrifice.

I believe this period of separation occurred when He cried out "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" because it's the only time during this ordeal that He didn't refer to God as His "Father". It was only after this that Jesus declared 'It is finished.' and died. What needed to be done pertaining to the sacrifice had happened.

That is why I reject the notion of Jesus needing to suffer in Hell. However, I do believe He needed to go there at some point to strip Satan of his power. We can read in John 20:17 that Jesus forbade Mary Magdalene from touching Him because He had not yet returned to His Father. He was somewhere for 3 days, but not in Heaven. Yet later, He tells Thomas to touch Him. Therefore, He must have went to Heaven in the interim.

That's my thoughts on the matter.

 

[DevotiontoBible]

I never bought into the torture of Jesus in Hell either. However, He had to be separated from God. That was part of the deal. Jesus, who had no sin, had to be made sin for our sake. Since the Father cannot be sin, Jesus would need to separated from God during that time in order to be an acceptable sacrifice.

I believe this period of separation occurred when He cried out "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" because it's the only time during this ordeal that He didn't refer to God as His "Father". It was only after this that Jesus declared 'It is finished.' and died. What needed to be done pertaining to the sacrifice had happened.

That is why I reject the notion of Jesus needing to suffer in Hell. However, I do believe He needed to go there at some point to strip Satan of his power. We can read in John 20:17 that Jesus forbade Mary Magdalene from touching Him because He had not yet returned to His Father. He was somewhere for 3 days, but not in Heaven. Yet later, He tells Thomas to touch Him. Therefore, He must have went to Heaven in the interim.

That's my thoughts on the matter.

You are misreading 2 Cor 5:21 to say that Jesus was literally made sin or sinful. The Greek idiom in that sentence means that God made Jesus an offering for our sins: 2 Cor. 5:21 (NLT)
For God made Christ, who never sinned, to be the offering for our sin, so that we could be made right with God through Christ.

You are impuning the Holiness of Christ with your misinterpretation.

 

[Faulty]

I appreciate your feedback but my thoughts are not in conflict with that passage or Isaiah 53. I am impuning nothing.

 

[DevotiontoBible]

I appreciate your feedback but my thoughts are not in conflict with that passage or Isaiah 53. I am impuning nothing.

Yes you are in conflict with the grammar as I proved by the NLT. Even the AMP Bible shows that verse to say God made Jesus "[virtually]" to be sin. Not literally to be sin. Also, Is 53 has nothing about Jesus becoming sinful. You are impuning Christ's holiness by saying He was sinful. Nobody can be saved by a sinful Jesus.

1 Peter 1:19 (NLT)
He paid for you with the precious lifeblood of Christ, the sinless, spotless Lamb of God.

 

[freedomnchrist]

I know the concept that Jesus went to Hades is found in the Bible and in church history. Does anyone know when the idea that Jesus went to hell to suffer at the hands of Satan or otherwise was first taught? Is it found in church history or is it a recent teaching? If it is a recent teaching do you know who started teaching it?

Thanks!

I don't believe he went there to suffer...I believe the Bible states He went there to set the captives free and to get the keys.

 

[DevotiontoBible]

I don't believe he went there to suffer...I believe the Bible states He went there to set the captives free and to get the keys.

The Bible never says those things. Jesus did not go to hell to set free Apostles, Prophets, Evangelists, Pastors and Teachers. (Eph 4.) Your Pastor at your church did not come out of hell.

 

[Faulty]

Yes you are in conflict with the grammar as I proved by the NLT. Even the AMP Bible shows that verse to say God made Jesus "[virtually]" to be sin. Not literally to be sin. Also, Is 53 has nothing about Jesus becoming sinful. You are impuning Christ's holiness by saying He was sinful. Nobody can be saved by a sinful Jesus.

Disagree completely, plus I never said He was sinful, but I'm not going to sit here and argue it. We are at an impasse.

Good day.