Jesus, the only Way to God the Father but many ways to Jesus?

[BBAS 64]

Fortunately, post Calvary all people are drawn to Jesus by Jesus.

John 12:32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.”​

And God calls all people to repent - not just those who do so.

Acts 17:30 In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent. 31 For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising him from the dead.​

For God to grant repentance simply means that God is answering your prayers, so that His evangelists may send out the gospel, in order that the lost will know the truth, and so that they can find forgiveness and salvation, which increases in possibility whenever the evangelist engages the lost with an attitude of patience, love and gentleness, so that the recipient is not automatically put off in a hostile, defensive mindset.

As an illustration of salvation being one-sided, and yet not implying anything Calvinistic, consider the example of the father of the Prodigal Son of Luke 15:11-32. When the son returned home in disgrace, the father could have had him stoned to death, but instead, the father chose to give his son full restoration. No one made him do it. The parable indicates that he simply, freely decided to show grace and mercy all on his own, even after bearing the full cost of his son’s misdeeds. Hence, restoration was all of the father. Yet, the son could have perished in the far country if he did not humble himself.

Good day, John

Both are true the Father Draws to overcome the inability of man to come to Christ.

And the very next verse:

Joh 12:33 He said this to show by what kind of death he was going to die.

Both are true but for very different reasons in very different contexts.

Yes He commands people to repent everywhere... But he is also the cause of repentance by granting it.

Now that is a very novel understanding of the passage 2 Tim 2, incorrect and hermetically silly, but it is yours alone for sure.

I would point you to the work of DA Carson on this parable in it context.

Enough to say The Son is a Son, and when God adopts us a Son we will always be.

If God does not adopt then a Son you can and never will be.

In Him,

Bill

 

[John Mullally]

Good day, John

Both are true the Father Draws to overcome the inability of man to come to Christ.

If people are born unable to come to Christ, there would be no need for Satan to blind people to the Gospel. Regeneration follows faith (Ephesians 1:13). People don't need to be regenerated in order to believe the gospel, they need to stop listening to the devil. We can also demand that the devil desist.

2 Corinthians 4:3 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing. 4 The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.​

And the very next verse:

Joh 12:33 He said this to show by what kind of death he was going to die.

John 12:32 does identify the means that Christ would die and it also says that his crucifixion will draw all people to him. The new covenant marks a great change as also seen with the Great Commission, the Church Age, and the baptism in the Holy Spirit.

Yes He commands people to repent everywhere... But he is also the cause of repentance by granting it.

Now that is a very novel understanding of the passage 2 Tim 2, incorrect and hermetically silly, but it is yours alone for sure.

The portion of 2 Timothy 2:24-26 that speaks of "God may grant them repentance" is concerning quarrelsome opponents (as we see with Paul's battles with Judaizers), not unbelievers. Grant does not mean “effectually caused.” For instance, you can grant a woman a gift, but that doesn’t guarantee that she will accept it, especially if she is at odds with you.

This grant is not talking about God pre-selecting particular sinners to repent in response to the Gospel.

God desires that all people be saved (1 Timothy 2:4). This is confirmed in 1 Timothy 4:10 where God is termed the "savior of all people". Paul would not proclaim that God is the savior of all people if God is withholding faith for salvation from anyone.

 

[BBAS 64]

If people are born unable to come to Christ, there would be no need for Satan to blind people to the Gospel. Regeneration follows faith (Ephesians 1:13). People don't need to be regenerated in order to believe the gospel, they need to stop listening to the devil. We can also demand that the power of the devil be broken over individuals.

2 Corinthians 4:3 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing. 4 The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.​

John 12:32 does identify the means that Christ would die and it also says that his crucifixion will draw all people to him. The new covenant marks a great change as a;sp seem with the Great Commission, the Church Age, and the baptism in the Holy Spirit.

The portion of 2 Timothy 2:24-26 that speaks of "God may grant them repentance" is concerning quarrelsome opponents (as we see with the Judaizers), not unbelievers. Grant does not mean “effectually caused.” For instance, you can grant a woman a gift, but that doesn’t guarantee that she will accept it, especially if she is at odds with you.

This grant is not talking about God pre-selecting particular sinners to repent in response to the Gospel.

God desires that all people be saved (1 Timothy 2:4). This is confirmed in 1 Timothy 4:10 where God is termed the "savior of all people". Paul would not proclaim that God is the savior of all people if he is withholding salvation from anyone.

Good day, John


Some of the conclusions you attribute to me I never asserted.


I know it is hard to hear ( it is the hardest teaching of Jesus IMHO) that man has a complete inability to come..

It does grate as it were against one's own view of self determination and highly valued self autonomy.

We see in John 6 Jesus says it twice and it does not go over very well.

Joh 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.

Then again:


Joh 6:65 And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.” After this many of his disciples turned back and no longer walked with him.

The universal inability to come to Christ requires the active intervention of God on behalf of man.. so he told them twice.... it finally sank in.

They did not like that so they leave.

John, what will you do?

In Him,

Bill

 

[John Mullally]

Good day, John


Some of the conclusions you attribute to me I never asserted.

You assert that people are born unable to come to Christ, whereas Paul provides an external reason for people not coming to Christ in 2 Corinthians 4:3-4 - which is Satan's blinding. If the barrier is internal, then Paul's mentioning external barriers is a moot point. Why is Satan putting blinders over a dead person who already cannot believe?

I know it is hard to hear ( it is the hardest teaching of Jesus IMHO) that man has a complete inability to come..

In John 6, Jesus is addressing Jewish leaders who were more interested in keeping their position and did not believe Moses (John 5:45-47). Given that these leaders received their authority from Moses (Matthew 23:2), it is no wonder they opposed Jesus.

It does grate as it were against one's own view of self determination and highly valued self autonomy.

We see in John 6 Jesus says it twice and it does not go over very well.

The thousands of directives in the Bible are present because we can choose. Choose ye this day who you will serve (Joshua 24:14-15) is not just a one-time decision. People are judged because of the choices they make - that would make no sense if people have no self-autonomy (AKA free free-will). Let me put it another way: I don't accept Calvin's fatalism where God governs our will and every action.

“We hold that God is the disposer and ruler of all things, –that from the remotest eternity, according to his own wisdom, He decreed what he was to do, and now by his power executes what he decreed. Hence we maintain, that by His providence, not heaven and earth and inanimate creatures only, but also the counsels and wills of men are so governed as to move exactly in the course which he has destined.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 1, Chapter 16, Paragraph 8)​

Joh 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.

Then again:


Joh 6:65 And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.” After this many of his disciples turned back and no longer walked with him.

The universal inability to come to Christ requires the active intervention of God on behalf of man.. so he told them twice.... it finally sank in.

Perhaps the Father did not draw these to Christ, here in John 6, because they did not already belong to the Father because they did not believe Moses.

Look at it another way, Jesus had to work miracles (John 15:24), yet avoided trying to convince the Jewish nation, as a whole, that he is the Messiah because he had to be crucified (1 Corinthians 2:8). In keeping, Christ confronted Jewish leaders and his messages were veiled in parables. Post-Calvary there was no need to continually hide God's intentions from Satan (as he fell into the trap, and Christ's work at Calvary and the resurrection defeated him), and teaching is no longer veiled in parables. Again, Christ draws all people to himself post-Calvary (John 12:32).

They did not like that so they leave.

John, what will you do?

In Him,

Bill

If we are born so depraved we are unable to even believe and come to God as you assert, how can you ever trust your thinking along any spiritual lines - such as understanding the Bible and not being presently deceived?

 

[BBAS 64]

You assert that people are born unable to come to Christ, whereas Paul provides an external reason for people not coming to Christ in 2 Corinthians 4:3-4 - which is Satan's blinding. If the barrier is internal, then Paul's mentioning external barriers is a moot point. Why is Satan putting blinders over a dead person who already cannot believe?

I am not asserting it the text says it

"no man can come to me..."

I disagree both are true not sure why you are looking to contradict the clear words of the text, it would be better to deal with the text at hand.

In John 6, Jesus is addressing Jewish leaders who were more interested in keeping their position and did not believe Moses (John 5:45-47). Given that these leaders received their authority from Moses (Matthew 23:2), it is no wonder they opposed Jesus.

Ummm... The Jewish leaders may have been there but there was Crowd they were seeking...

On the next day the crowd that remained on the other side of the sea saw that there had been only one boat there, and that Jesus had not entered the boat with his disciples, but that his disciples had gone away alone. Other boats from Tiberias came near the place where they had eaten the bread after the Lord had given thanks. So when the crowd saw that Jesus was not there, nor his disciples, they themselves got into the boats and went to Capernaum, seeking Jesus.

The thousands of directives in the Bible are present because we can choose. Choose ye this day who you will serve (Joshua 24:14-15) is not just a one-time decision. People are judged because of the choices they make - that would make no sense if people have no self-autonomy (AKA free free-will). Let me put it another way: I don't accept Calvin's fatalism where God governs our will and every action.

“We hold that God is the disposer and ruler of all things, –that from the remotest eternity, according to his own wisdom, He decreed what he was to do, and now by his power executes what he decreed. Hence we maintain, that by His providence, not heaven and earth and inanimate creatures only, but also the counsels and wills of men are so governed as to move exactly in the course which he has destined.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 1, Chapter 16, Paragraph 8)​

Perhaps the Father did not draw these to Christ, here in John 6, because they did not already belong to the Father because they did not believe Moses.

Man having just finished the Institutes I love when it is Quoted!

Again the text says they were Drawn to overcome their inability to come. Earlier in the chapter it speaks about the giving by the Father ensures the coming to Him. The coming is dependent on the giving (verb order)

All that the Father gives to me come to me.

I never said people do not have the freedom to choose.... although expecting them to choose what they can not do...

Look at it another way, Jesus had to work miracles (John 15:24), yet avoided trying to convince the Jewish nation, as a whole, that he is the Messiah because he had to be crucified (1 Corinthians 2:8). In keeping, Christ confronted Jewish leaders and his messages were veiled in parables. Post-Calvary there was no need to hide God's intentions from Satan (as Christ's work at Calvary and the resurrection defeated him), and teaching is no longer veiled in parables. Again, Christ draws all people to himself post-Calvary (John 12:32).

If we are born so depraved we are unable to even believe and come to God as you assert, how can you ever trust your thinking along any lines - such as understanding the Bible and not being presently deceived?

I am not looking at another text I am seeking your understanding of the " no man can come to me" do you believe that is a true statement?

Not a very hard question.... I know the statement is hard they left after Jesus said it twice.

In HIm,

Bill

 

[John Mullally]

I am not asserting it the text says it

"no man can come to me..."

That was stated and applied pre-Calvary. Pre-Calvary I believe that the Father was drawing those who believed Moses, to Jesus. Jesus said that his religious leader opponents did not believe him because they did not believe Moses in John 5:45-47. If the Father is drawing Moses followers to Jesus, they are not going to resist.

As I mentioned at the start, we live post-Calvary in the New Covenant where Christ draws all people to himself (John 12:32). Christ does not draw people who are unable to come to him - thus we all can do so. But many for whom Christ died (1 John 2:2, 1 Timothy 2:6, Romans 5:18) resist the Holy Spirit (Acts 7:51), reject the gospel, and remain lost (John 3:18-21).

I disagree both are true not sure why you are looking to contradict the clear words of the text, it would be better to deal with the text at hand.

If people are born unable to come to God and believe (which is your point), Paul is mistaken in 2 Corinthians 4:3-4 by saying that the devil, not man's innate inability, blinds people to the Gospel.

Ummm... The Jewish leaders may have been there but there was Crowd they were seeking...

John 6 is long and has a few story lines.

On the next day the crowd that remained on the other side of the sea saw that there had been only one boat there, and that Jesus had not entered the boat with his disciples, but that his disciples had gone away alone. Other boats from Tiberias came near the place where they had eaten the bread after the Lord had given thanks. So when the crowd saw that Jesus was not there, nor his disciples, they themselves got into the boats and went to Capernaum, seeking Jesus.

The crowd was seeking Jesus because of the multiplication of the loaves and fishes miracle and thus they wanted to make him king. Even after the resurrection, many of Christ's disciples presumed he would as king restore Israel (Acts 1:6). But Jesus never taught that he would restore Israel at that time - just like he never taught fatalism.

Man having just finished the Institutes I love when it is Quoted!

God is love (1 John 4:8, 1 John 4:16), but you would never know it from reading Calvin's Institutes. Calvin has God predestining many, even infants, to eternal torment in order to receive glory (tell that to an expectant mother). How is that love? Paul defines love in 1 Corinthians 13 and among other things love is kind and is not self-seeking.

“…individuals are born, who are doomed from the womb to certain death, and are to glorify him by their destruction.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 23, Paragraph 6)​

​

Calvin has God directing all the evil Satan works (see below) - thus slandering God's character. God is Holy, Holy, Holy (Revelation 4:8) and his kingdom is not divided against itself (Matthew 12:25). Jesus did not come to destroy the works of the devil (1 John 3:8) that according to Calvin the Father directed Satan do.

“The devil, and the whole train of the ungodly, are in all directions, held in by the hand of God as with a bridle, so that they can neither conceive any mischief, nor plan what they have conceived, nor how muchsoever they may have planned, move a single finger to perpetrate, unless in so far as he permits, nay unless in so far as he commands, that they are not only bound by his fetters but are even forced to do him service” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 1, Chapter 17, Paragraph 11)​

Again the text says they were Drawn to overcome their inability to come. Earlier in the chapter it speaks about the giving by the Father ensures the coming to Him. The coming is dependent on the giving (verb order)

All that the Father gives to me come to me.

The Father gave the Apostles to Jesus in Luke 6:12-13.

I never said people do not have the freedom to choose.... although expecting them to choose what they can not do...

Per Calvin's Institutes that I quoted in Post 24, Calvin says God governs our will and every action, thus we do not have the ability to freely choose between options. And if per Calvin, God governs all our actions, then God is the author of all sin. To blame people for sin they cannot avoid doing would be equivalent to blaming the gun for a murder.

I am not looking at another text I am seeking your understanding of the " no man can come to me" do you believe that is a true statement?

Not a very hard question.... I know the statement is hard they left after Jesus said it twice.

In HIm,

Bill

You assume that "no man can come to me" in John 6 implies a type of fatalism that Calvin's Institutes teaches.

fatalism​

noun​

fa·tal·ism ˈfā-tə-ˌli-zəm​

​

: a doctrine that events are fixed in advance so that human beings are powerless to change them​

also : a belief in or attitude determined by this doctrine​

But as I pointed out from the start that we are in the New Covenant where Christ draws all people to himself (John 12:32) and God desires all people to be saved (1 Timothy 2:4), and is the Savior of all people (1 Timothy 4:10). God would not predestine any to eternal torment (as Calvin states) when he desires to save all people and views Himself as being the savior to all people.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

God loves young and old. Perishing infants surely obtain life. Older people may be committed to iniquity. Messages are slow to come in our senses, seeing and hearing, and messengers on foot... but we all have guardian angels and they make a difference. Thinking of a Hindu or Buddhist who has followed his or her conscience well, loves people, dies and discovers Jesus just as the being of light, and loves him. May then begin salvation and sanctification.
1 Timothy 4:10 and Romans 2:12-16.

 

[BBAS 64]

That was stated and applied pre-Calvary. Pre-Calvary I believe that the Father was drawing those who believed Moses, to Jesus. Jesus said that his religious leader opponents did not believe him because they did not believe Moses in John 5:45-47. If the Father is drawing Moses followers to Jesus, they are not going to resist.

As I mentioned at the start, we live post-Calvary in the New Covenant where Christ draws all people to himself (John 12:32). Christ does not draw people who are unable to come to him - thus we all can do so. But many for whom Christ died (1 John 2:2, 1 Timothy 2:6, Romans 5:18) resist the Holy Spirit (Acts 7:51), reject the gospel, and remain lost (John 3:18-21).

If people are born unable to come to God and believe (which is your point), Paul is mistaken in 2 Corinthians 4:3-4 by saying that the devil, not man's innate inability, blinds people to the Gospel.

John 6 is long and has a few story lines.

The crowd was seeking Jesus because of the multiplication of the loaves and fishes miracle and thus they wanted to make him king. Even after the resurrection, many of Christ's disciples presumed he would as king restore Israel (Acts 1:6). But Jesus never taught that he would restore Israel at that time - just like he never taught fatalism.

God is love (1 John 4:8, 1 John 4:16), but you would never know it from reading Calvin's Institutes. Calvin has God predestining many, even infants, to eternal torment in order to receive glory (tell that to an expectant mother). How is that love? Paul defines love in 1 Corinthians 13 and among other things love is kind and is not self-seeking.

“…individuals are born, who are doomed from the womb to certain death, and are to glorify him by their destruction.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 23, Paragraph 6)​

​

Calvin has God directing all the evil Satan works (see below) - thus slandering God's character. God is Holy, Holy, Holy (Revelation 4:8) and his kingdom is not divided against itself (Matthew 12:25). Jesus did not come to destroy the works of the devil (1 John 3:8) that according to Calvin the Father directed Satan do.

“The devil, and the whole train of the ungodly, are in all directions, held in by the hand of God as with a bridle, so that they can neither conceive any mischief, nor plan what they have conceived, nor how muchsoever they may have planned, move a single finger to perpetrate, unless in so far as he permits, nay unless in so far as he commands, that they are not only bound by his fetters but are even forced to do him service” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 1, Chapter 17, Paragraph 11)​

The Father gave the Apostles to Jesus in Luke 6:12-13.

Per Calvin's Institutes that I quoted in Post 24, Calvin says God governs our will and every action, thus we do not have the ability to freely choose between options. And if per Calvin, God governs all our actions, then God is the author of all sin. To blame people for sin they cannot avoid doing would be equivalent to blaming the gun for a murder.

You assume that "no man can come to me" in John 6 implies a type of fatalism that Calvin's Institutes teaches.

fatalism​

noun​

fa·tal·ism ˈfā-tə-ˌli-zəm​

​

: a doctrine that events are fixed in advance so that human beings are powerless to change them​

also : a belief in or attitude determined by this doctrine​

But as I pointed out from the start that we are in the New Covenant where Christ draws all people to himself (John 12:32) and God desires all people to be saved (1 Timothy 2:4), and is the Savior of all people (1 Timothy 4:10). God would not predestine any to eternal torment (as Calvin states) when he desires to save all people and views Himself as being the savior to all people.

Good day, John

Thanks for the interaction seems like we are going in circles...

The Devil is God's Devil knowing that of that my confidence never fails...

Larger Context from Calvin's work Book 1, Chapter 17, Paragraph 11

OF THE KNOWLEDGE OF GOD THE CREATOR:

16. The World, created by God, still cherished and protected by Him. Each and all of its parts governed by His Providence.

17. Use to be made of this Doctrine.

But when once the light of Divine Providence has illumined the believer’s soul, he is relieved and set free, not only from the extreme fear and anxiety which formerly oppressed him, but from all care. For as he justly shudders at the idea of chance, so he can confidently commit himself to God.........

How comes it, I ask, that their confidence never fails, but just that while the world apparently revolves at random, they know that God is every where at work, and feel assured that his work will be their safety? When assailed by the devil and wicked men, were they not confirmed by remembering and meditating on Providence, they should, of necessity, forthwith despond. But when they call to mind that the devil, and the whole train of the ungodly, are, in all directions, held in by the hand of God as with a bridle, so that they can neither conceive any mischief, nor plan what they have conceived, nor how much soever they may have planned, move a single finger to perpetrate, unless in so far as he permits, nay, unless in so far as he commands; that they are not only bound by his fetters, but are even forced to do him service,—when the godly think of all these things they have ample sources of consolation. For, as it belongs to the lord to arm the fury of such foes and turn and destine it at pleasure, so it is his also to determine the measure and the end, so as to prevent them from breaking loose and wantoning as they list. Supported by this conviction, Paul, who had said in one place that his journey was hindered by Satan (1 Thess. 2:18), in another resolves, with the permission of God, to undertake it (1 Cor. 16:7). If he had only said that Satan was the 142 Calvin's Institutes John Calvin obstacle, he might have seemed to give him too much power, as if he were able even to overturn the counsels of God; but now, when he makes God the disposer, on whose permission all journies depend, he shows, that however Satan may contrive, he can accomplish nothing except in so far as He pleases to give the word.

Keep reading:

CHAPTER 18. THE INSTRUMENTALITY OF THE WICKED EMPLOYED BY GOD, WHILE HE CONTINUES FREE FROM EVERY TAINT

This last chapter of the First Book consists of three parts: I. It having been said above that God bends all the reprobate, and even Satan himself, at his will, three objections are started. First, that this happens by the permission, not by the will of God. To this objection there is a twofold reply, the one, that angels and men, good and bad, do nothing but what is appointed by God; the second, that all movements are secretly directed to their end by the hidden inspiration of God, sec. 1, 2. II. A second objection is, that there are two contrary wills in God, if by a secret counsel he decrees what he openly prohibits by his law. This objection refuted, sec. 3. III. The third objection is, that God is made the author of all wickedness, when he is said not only to use the agency of the wicked, but also to govern their counsels and affections, and that therefore the wicked are unjustly punished. This objection refuted in the last section. Sections.

1. The carnal mind the source of the objections which are raised against the Providence of God. A primary objection, making a distinction between the permission and the will of God, refuted. Angels and men, good and bad, do nought but what has been decreed by God. This proved by examples

2. All hidden movements directed to their end by the unseen but righteous instigation of God. Examples, with answers to objections.

3. These objections originate in a spirit of pride and blasphemy. Objection, that there must be two contrary wills in God, refuted. Why the one simple will of God seems to us as if it were manifold.
4. Objection, that God is the author of sin, refuted by examples. Augustine’s answer and admonition

Thanks again

In Him,

Bill

 

[John Mullally]

I quoted the underlined portion in Post 26. This account by Calvin makes God out to be "the devil behind Satan" as Calvin credits God with commanding all of Satan's activities. That is not what we see in God's interactions with the devil in the book of Job or in Jesus's interactions with the devil and demons in the Gospels.

If this is true, Jesus was sent to destroy the works of the devil (1 John 3:8) which the Father commanded the devil do.

How comes it, I ask, that their confidence never fails, but just that while the world apparently revolves at random, they know that God is every where at work, and feel assured that his work will be their safety? When assailed by the devil and wicked men, were they not confirmed by remembering and meditating on Providence, they should, of necessity, forthwith despond. But when they call to mind that the devil, and the whole train of the ungodly, are, in all directions, held in by the hand of God as with a bridle, so that they can neither conceive any mischief, nor plan what they have conceived, nor how much soever they may have planned, move a single finger to perpetrate, unless in so far as he permits, nay, unless in so far as he commands; that they are not only bound by his fetters, but are even forced to do him service,—when the godly think of all these things they have ample sources of consolation. For, as it belongs to the lord to arm the fury of such foes and turn and destine it at pleasure, so it is his also to determine the measure and the end, so as to prevent them from breaking loose and wantoning as they list. Supported by this conviction, Paul, who had said in one place that his journey was hindered by Satan (1 Thess. 2:18), in another resolves, with the permission of God, to undertake it (1 Cor. 16:7). If he had only said that Satan was the 142 Calvin's Institutes John Calvin obstacle, he might have seemed to give him too much power, as if he were able even to overturn the counsels of God; but now, when he makes God the disposer, on whose permission all journies depend, he shows, that however Satan may contrive, he can accomplish nothing except in so far as He pleases to give the word.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

I believe Jesus is the only Way to our Heavenly Father, but are there many ways to Jesus?

Perhaps any Christian will not agree with me but Jesus is no longer bound by his physical body. People can experience him in many ways and perhaps do not even recognize him and yet, still experience love and attraction.

Matthew 25:35-40

35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’​

37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

 

[BBAS 64]

I quoted the underlined portion in Post 26. This account by Calvin makes God out to be "the devil behind Satan" as Calvin credits God with commanding all of Satan's activities. That is not what we see in God's interactions with the devil in the book of Job or in Jesus's interactions with the devil and demons in the Gospels.

If this is true, Jesus was sent to destroy the works of the devil (1 John 3:8) which the Father commanded the devil do.

Good day,

There ya go... yuppers

You know that he appeared in order to take away sins, and in him there is no sin.

Gill Notes:

that he might destroy the works of the devil; and the devil himself, and all his dominion and power, and particularly his power over death, and death itself; and especially the sins of men, which are the works of the devil, which he puts them upon, influences them to do, and takes delight in; and which are destroyed by Christ, by his sacrifice and death, being taken, carried, removed away, finished, and made an end of by him; See Gill on 1Jn_3:5.

 

[Jan001]

It is true that Jesus is the way, and the truth, and the life.

John 14:6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but by me.

It is also true that Jesus desires all people to be Christians.

Mark 16:14-16 Afterward he appeared to the eleven themselves as they sat at table; and he upbraided them for their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they had not believed those who saw him after he had risen. 15 And he said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to the whole creation. 16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.

People who hear the gospel and understand it but still refuse to believe and be baptized will be condemned.

However, what if you do not hear the gospel, are you still automatically condemned?
What if you hear the gospel but do not comprehend it and therefore you do not believe the gospel, are you still condemned?

I don't believe you are automatically condemned through no fault of your own.

It is true that no one enters into eternal life with the Father (and the Son and the Holy Spirit) except by Jesus' approval and this is because Jesus is the judge of all mankind.

John 5:22 The Father judges no one, but has given all judgment to the Son,

Will Jesus automatically condemn all practicing Jews, Hindus, Muslims, etc.?

I don't believe He will. Exodus 33:19

Romans 2:14-16 When Gentiles who have not the law do by nature what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that what the law requires is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness and their conflicting thoughts accuse or perhaps excuse them 16 on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus.

I believe Jesus will judge Jews, Hindus, Muslims, etc. by their works. This is how He will judge all Christians and everyone else according to Matthew 25:31-46.

John 5:28-29 Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice 29 and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.

 

[BBAS 64]

It is true that Jesus is the way, and the truth, and the life.

John 14:6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but by me.

It is also true that Jesus desires all people to be Christians.

Mark 16:14-16 Afterward he appeared to the eleven themselves as they sat at table; and he upbraided them for their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they had not believed those who saw him after he had risen. 15 And he said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to the whole creation. 16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.

People who hear the gospel and understand it but still refuse to believe and be baptized will be condemned.

However, what if you do not hear the gospel, are you still automatically condemned?
What if you hear the gospel but do not comprehend it and therefore you do not believe the gospel, are you still condemned?

I don't believe you are automatically condemned through no fault of your own.

It is true that no one enters into eternal life with the Father (and the Son and the Holy Spirit) except by Jesus' approval and this is because Jesus is the judge of all mankind.

John 5:22 The Father judges no one, but has given all judgment to the Son,

Will Jesus automatically condemn all practicing Jews, Hindus, Muslims, etc.?

I don't believe He will. Exodus 33:19

Romans 2:14-16 When Gentiles who have not the law do by nature what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that what the law requires is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness and their conflicting thoughts accuse or perhaps excuse them 16 on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus.

I believe Jesus will judge Jews, Hindus, Muslims, etc. by their works. This is how He will judge all Christians and everyone else according to Matthew 25:31-46.

John 5:28-29 Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice 29 and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.

Good day, Jan

There is no need to condemn them... as they are condemned already by their unbelief.

Joh 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.

Paul gives us the authoritative application of Ex 33:19 in Romans 9

For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills. who will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory— even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles? As indeed he says in Hosea, “Those who were not my people I will call ‘my people,’ and her who was not beloved I will call ‘beloved.’” “And in the very place where it was said to them, ‘You are not my people,’ there they will be called ‘sons of the living God.’” And Isaiah cries out concerning Israel: “Though the number of the sons of Israel be as the sand of the sea, only a remnant of them will be saved, for the Lord will carry out his sentence upon the earth fully and without delay.” And as Isaiah predicted, “If the Lord of hosts had not left us offspring, we would have been like Sodom and become like Gomorrah.”

God will have mercy on who he has mercy it has nothing to do with us at all...

In Him

Bill

 

[John Mullally]

For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy.

"God having mercy on who He will have mercy" does not necessarily mean peoples beliefs and actions have nothing to do with it. It does mean that people do not set that criteria.

Continuing from Romans 9:1-5, within the overall theme of Jewish evangelism, “it,” meaning God’s “mercy,” does not depend on our ability to establish our own self-righteousness through the Law or the Jews physical connection to the Patriarchs, but rather depends on admitting our unrighteousness and accepting His forgiveness, which is perfectly summed up in Romans 9:30-32:
​

Romans 9:30 What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith; 31 but the people of Israel, who pursued the law as the way of righteousness, have not attained their goal. 32 Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone.​

Gentiles: Sinners admitting their unrighteousness and welcoming the mercy of God through faith.
Israel: Jesus is not the Messiah, and our only righteousness comes from living righteously.

Jesus tells us that mercy is shown to the humble per Luke 18:9-14. Jesus's brother tells us God gives grace to the humble (James 4:6 NKJV).​

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

1 Timothy 4:10
What hope is there for those who don't believe in Jesus or God, to find God and life?