JW Jesus is my mediator between God and man under the New Covenant

[BobRyan]

As Christians we are all saved by grace through faith - and under the New Covenant... I think that the LDS group also highly values that and claims it for the 144,000.

1 Tim 2
3 This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave Himself as a ransom for all, the testimony given at the proper time

As Christians we all have this benefit -- this promise

Christ is our High Priest - according to Hebrews 4, and 7 and 8 and 10.

We praise God for this gospel benefit under the New Covenant.

There are "some" JW's that also have this benefit if they happen to be in their 144,000 that have all died off in the last 15 to 20 years. At least according to their own documents.

 

[Andrewn]

There are "some" JW's that also have this benefit if they happen to be in their 144,000 that have all died off in the last 15 to 20 years. At least according to their own documents.

Not sure what this thread is about but I don't think there are any JW's here. At least not openly.

 

[Peter1000]

As Christians we are all saved by grace through faith - and under the New Covenant... I think that the LDS group also highly values that and claims it for the 144,000.

1 Tim 2
3 This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave Himself as a ransom for all, the testimony given at the proper time

As Christians we all have this benefit -- this promise

Christ is our High Priest - according to Hebrews 4, and 7 and 8 and 10.

We praise God for this gospel benefit under the New Covenant.

There are "some" JW's that also have this benefit if they happen to be in their 144,000 that have all died off in the last 15 to 20 years. At least according to their own documents.

We claim to be saved through the combination of grace, faith, and good works, and enduring to the end.

We beleieve that the 144,000 are a group of people that will meet with the 'ancient of days' just before the second coming of Christ.

We also claim Christ as our High Priest and the benefits promised.

So it looks like we are on the same boat.

 

[BobRyan]

We claim to be saved through the combination of grace, faith, and good works, and enduring to the end.

We beleieve that the 144,000 are a group of people that will meet with the 'ancient of days' just before the second coming of Christ.

We also claim Christ as our High Priest and the benefits promised.

So it looks like we are on the same boat.

In a lot of respects I agree with you - but the Ancient of Days - God the Father has this said about Him in John 1 "no one has seen the Father at any time" -- so then people that are on Earth do not see God the Father. At some point of course - for example at the second coming - the saints will be taken up in the air , and with transformed/glorified bodies will then be able to endure the sight of God the Father and yet not perish.

 

[Peter1000]

In a lot of respects I agree with you - but the Ancient of Days - God the Father has this said about Him in John 1 "no one has seen the Father at any time" -- so then people that are on Earth do not see God the Father. At some point of course - for example at the second coming - the saints will be taken up in the air , and with transformed/glorified bodies will then be able to endure the sight of God the Father and yet not perish.

First of all, we believe that the "Ancient of Days" refers to Adam, of Adam and Eve fame. God is referred to as the uncreated, the one who has always existed, not the Ancient of Days. He goes far beyond the Ancient of Days.

Second, God certainly has the power to transform 144,000 in what ever means they must be in, in order to see and talk with Him. OR does he not have the power to do this?

 

[BobRyan]

First of all, we believe that the "Ancient of Days" refers to Adam, of Adam and Eve fame. God is referred to as the uncreated,

I have never seen "the uncreated" as a prefix for God the Father.. what text is that? He is "from everlasting" in Psalms 90:2 Micah 5:2 also said of Christ.

Neither of them created but almost never see "uncreated" in the Bible (or is it never see it?)

The ancient of days term only shows up in Daniel 7 and the Son of God (God the Son, Jesus) is receiving a kingdom from Him - the Father..

the one who has always existed, not the Ancient of Days. He goes far beyond the Ancient of Days.

Daniel 7 is the only place that term is used.

 

[BobRyan]

Second, God certainly has the power to transform 144,000 in what ever means they must be in, in order to see and talk with Him. OR does he not have the power to do this?

He is not talking about what He does not have power to do in John 1 - He is just stating that no one has seen the Father at any time.. referring to humans on earth since of course Angels see God the Father.

The rules He gives in the Bible are useful for sola-scriptura testing of all doctrine and practice.

 

[Peter1000]

He is not talking about what He does not have power to do in John 1 - He is just stating that no one has seen the Father at any time.. referring to humans on earth since of course Angels see God the Father.

The rules He gives in the Bible are useful for sola-scriptura testing of all doctrine and practice.

Exodus 24:9-11 King James Version (KJV)
9 Then went up Moses, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel:
10 And they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness.
11 And upon the nobles of the children of Israel he laid not his hand: also they saw God, and did eat and drink.

What God is this that 74 mortal men saw?

 

[Andrewn]

We beleieve that the 144,000 are a group of people that will meet with the 'ancient of days' just before the second coming of Christ.

First of all, we believe that the "Ancient of Days" refers to Adam, of Adam and Eve fame.

I wasn't aware of this interpretation. Who are the 144,000, how are they selected, and why would they meet Adam just before Christ's parousia?

God is referred to as the uncreated, the one who has always existed,

I wasn't aware of this, either. In what sense do you refer to God as uncreated when, even God the Father, was created / born in another world?

What God is this that 74 mortal men saw?

God the Son.

 

[BobRyan]

Exodus 24:9-11 King James Version (KJV)
9 Then went up Moses, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel:
10 And they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness.
11 And upon the nobles of the children of Israel he laid not his hand: also they saw God, and did eat and drink.

What God is this that 74 mortal men saw?

And in that case - the God they saw was Christ as we see in Hebrews 8 - we are told that Christ is the one at Sinai giving the Law.

So there is a case of humans not seeing "the ancient of days" who in Daniel 7 is giving Christ - God the Son , a Kingdom.

 

[Peter1000]

And in that case - the God they saw was Christ as we see in Hebrews 8 - we are told that Christ is the one at Sinai giving the Law.

So there is a case of humans not seeing "the ancient of days" who in Daniel 7 is giving Christ - God the Son , a Kingdom.

OK, they saw Christ. So where was Christ's Father, God the Father at the time 74 mortal men saw his Son? IOW, if they are one God, did they not see the Father also at that time?

I can only tell you what we know about the "ancient of days". That refers to Adam, the most ancient man that ever lived. Adam was given dominion over all the earth:
Genesis 1:28 King James Version (KJV)
28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
Who gave Adam the dominion over every living creature on the earth? Jesus Christ.

At the gathering of the 144,000, which is 12,000 men from each of the tribes of Israel (I am of the tribe of Ephraim). At this meeting with Jesus Christ, Adam will give up his dominion of the earth to Jesus Christ, who gave it to him in the beginning. Jesus will then have all power and all authority and all dominion and his kingdom will last for ever and ever.
This will happen just before the second coming of Christ to the earth.

 

[BobRyan]

OK, they saw Christ. So where was Christ's Father, God the Father at the time 74 mortal men saw his Son?

In heaven - seated on the throne of the Universe.. not simply the throne of one tiny planet
-- while those 74 were on Earth - at Sinai.

IOW, if they are one God, did they not see the Father also at that time?

One God - not one Person.

One God Deut 6:4 in three persons Matthew 28:19

I can only tell you what we know about the "ancient of days". That refers to Adam, the most ancient man that ever lived.

1. Text does not say "the ancient man"
2. There is no "Adam is called the Ancient of days" text that I know of in the Bible.
3. The only place to find that term is in Daniel 7 and Adam is not there. In fact in Dan 7 the Ancient of Days gives the kingdom to the Son of God...

Adam was given dominion over all the earth:

No doubt .. then he lost it and Satan became "the god of this world" 2 Cor 4:4 which is why in Luke 4 when Satan comes to tempt Christ he offers to give the world back to Christ -

Luke 4
6 And the devil said to Him, “I will give You all this domain and its glory; for it has been handed over to me, and I give it to whomever I wish. 7 Therefore if You worship before me, it shall all be Yours.”

Who gave Adam the dominion over every living creature on the earth? Jesus Christ.

True .. in Eden.. then he lost it at the fall of man.

At the gathering of the 144,000, which is 12,000 men from each of the tribes of Israel (I am of the tribe of Ephraim). At this meeting with Jesus Christ, Adam will give up his dominion of the earth to Jesus Christ, who gave it to him in the beginning. Jesus will then have all power and all authority and all dominion and his kingdom will last for ever and ever.
This will happen just before the second coming of Christ to the earth.

1. Adam is not alive.
2. Jesus said all power had been given to him in Matthew 28
3. Adam has no kingdom.. he is dead. And scripture says Satan is the god of this world. (Unless you are saying that Satan is another name for Adam... which I assume you are not saying)

 

[ewq1938]