- Jun 13, 2007
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Got into a discussion with a Jehovah's Witnesses recently, and I discovered that they hold Arian beliefs. Sorry, I can't let go of what the Council of Nicea has already defined as our Trinitarian beliefs, along with the Son of God meaning God the Son, not Michael the Archangel.
Anyway, what I got back was , "If Jesus is God, then Manoah & his wife would have seen him, thus making John 1:18 incorrect." Of course he has his Arian answer, and my Reformed study Bible doesn't really go into that aspect of a pre-incarnate Jesus. So I'm asking for a little help here other than "it's a mystery."
Also another rebuttal from him, "By the way, you didnt explain Rev 3:12, Jesus worshipping his God."
I don't see his side of it at all because of all the other texts that support Jesus being God, but the text that he quotes does confuse me a little. What I get out of Revolution 3:12 is that "God worshiping God" is really just a parting out of the Trinity to show distinctive personalities while remaining a mystery of unity within the Godhead. And as Jesus as a man was subject to God the Father, so we see a mirror image here without losing the deity of Jesus Christ.
Is this what y'all get out of it?
I keep telling him that there is no way that we are going to convince each other of the truths of our positions. He is locked into Jehovah's Witness theology, I'm locked in to Calvinism, and we will be discussing meanings of verses until we are blue in the face. And I would do the same thing with Arminianism, I know that I will not be able to convince anyone outside of Calvinism of the truth of this position, except only in rare circumstances. But I ain't gonna budge.
There are a couple of other issues that he discussed, and I'll get to them later, this is enough for now. I would appreciate some Calvinist inputs to refute what he's trying to tell me.
Anyway, what I got back was , "If Jesus is God, then Manoah & his wife would have seen him, thus making John 1:18 incorrect." Of course he has his Arian answer, and my Reformed study Bible doesn't really go into that aspect of a pre-incarnate Jesus. So I'm asking for a little help here other than "it's a mystery."
Also another rebuttal from him, "By the way, you didnt explain Rev 3:12, Jesus worshipping his God."
I don't see his side of it at all because of all the other texts that support Jesus being God, but the text that he quotes does confuse me a little. What I get out of Revolution 3:12 is that "God worshiping God" is really just a parting out of the Trinity to show distinctive personalities while remaining a mystery of unity within the Godhead. And as Jesus as a man was subject to God the Father, so we see a mirror image here without losing the deity of Jesus Christ.
Is this what y'all get out of it?
I keep telling him that there is no way that we are going to convince each other of the truths of our positions. He is locked into Jehovah's Witness theology, I'm locked in to Calvinism, and we will be discussing meanings of verses until we are blue in the face. And I would do the same thing with Arminianism, I know that I will not be able to convince anyone outside of Calvinism of the truth of this position, except only in rare circumstances. But I ain't gonna budge.
There are a couple of other issues that he discussed, and I'll get to them later, this is enough for now. I would appreciate some Calvinist inputs to refute what he's trying to tell me.