James says faith without works is dead.

[Bible Highlighter]

James says faith without works is dead.

Discuss.


....

 

[ZacharyB]

James says faith without works is dead.

Just another "hint" against OSAS.
The Lord presents most of these warnings as tactful "hints"
so as to not scare away the troops (who generally are fragile).
Let the Spirit reveal spiritual Truths about different items
to whomever and whenever He chooses to reveal them.
This is what the Lord taught Paul during those 17 years of training
in the desert regions before he actually began his ministry to the Gentiles.
Jesus speaking to everyone is less tactful.
What Paul wrote so tactfully to the churches is lost on most American
believers today, who have been deceived and brainwashed unto idiocy!

 

[football5680]

Seems pretty straightforward to me.

 

[Soyeong]

James says faith without works is dead.

Discuss.


....

If someone has faith that God will lead them into being like Christ in having a holy, righteous, and good conduct, then they will obey His instructions in His law for how to do holy, righteous, and good works. When God said that this is the right way to live and Jesus demonstrated the right way to live by giving us a perfect example to follow of obedience to God's law, then it would be inconsistent for someone to say that they trust that God knows what He is talking about while demonstrating through their lawless and unrepentant actions that they don't actually trust or even know Him.

1 John 3:4-6 Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness. 5 You know that he appeared in order to take away sins, and in him there is no sin. 6 No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him.

 

[Albion]

Faith that doesn't produce Works is Faith in a different sense from what Christianity means by the word.

 

[Goatee]

Seems pretty straightforward to me.

Agreed

 

[nobdysfool]

Just another "hint" against OSAS.
The Lord presents most of these warnings as tactful "hints"
so as to not scare away the troops (who generally are fragile).
Let the Spirit reveal spiritual Truths about different items
to whomever and whenever He chooses to reveal them.
This is what the Lord taught Paul during those 17 years of training
in the desert regions before he actually began his ministry to the Gentiles.
Jesus speaking to everyone is less tactful.
What Paul wrote so tactfully to the churches is lost on most American
believers today, who have been deceived and brainwashed unto idiocy!

Just another false diatribe against Believers who don't agree with these views. Nothing to see here. Move along....
.

 

[EmSw]

Just another false diatribe against Believers who don't agree with these views. Nothing to see here. Move along....
.

Yeah, but do you agree with James' view? Seems many believe a dead faith can save.

 

[nobdysfool]

Yeah, but do you agree with James' view? Seems many believe a dead faith can save.

Grace by means of faith is what saves. Works are evidence of faith, not the cause of faith, and certainly not the cause of Salvation. Too many want to put the cart before the horse, and then wonder why it doesn't work. The horse (faith) is much more efficient at pulling the load (works), rather than pushing it.

Keep in mind that James is primarily concerned with justification before men (the proof of faith to the observer/hearer) than he is with justification before God. He is addressing the question, "How do we know that this faith is real?"

 

[com7fy8]

Paul talks about "faith working through love," in Galatians 5:6.

And I notice that the examples James gives for works include >

personally helping a someone who needs food and clothing . . .

Abraham putting God first by offering his son Isaac . . .

and Rahab helping God's servants.

These, I consider, are works of personal love.

 

[tulipbee]

James says faith without works is dead.

Discuss.


....

Gotta get faith first
But it has to be given

 

[EmSw]

Grace by means of faith is what saves. Works are evidence of faith, not the cause of faith, and certainly not the cause of Salvation. Too many want to put the cart before the horse, and then wonder why it doesn't work. The horse (faith) is much more efficient at pulling the load (works), rather than pushing it.

Keep in mind that James is primarily concerned with justification before men (the proof of faith to the observer/hearer) than he is with justification before God. He is addressing the question, "How do we know that this faith is real?"

So I will ask, without evidence (works), does faith exist? Is it alive without works? Some are fond of saying a 'dead' man can do nothing on his own, but are more than willing to believe a 'dead' faith can save.

How do we know faith is real? Can you show us without works? As James said, 'show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.' How will you show us your faith NB?

James also said, 'But do you want to know, o foolish man, that faith without works is dead?' NB, do you know faith without works is dead? Do you want to know? Do you know Abraham was justified by his works?

By the way, James is not talking about the cart before the horse; you want us to believe a 'dead' horse can pull the cart. Perhaps you can show us how a 'dead' horse can do anything.

To top it off, James gave us an example of 'dead' faith. 'For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also'. I ask, what can a body do without the spirit? Be honest, give us examples of bodies doing something without the spirit. This should be interesting. But yet, you want us to believe, a dead faith can do what a dead body can't.

 

[nobdysfool]

So I will ask, without evidence (works), does faith exist? Is it alive without works?

This may be tough for you to grasp, but there are two flaws in your reasoning here. First, the underlying assumption that works are what define faith. They provide evidence of faith's presence, but they do not stand in the place of faith. Faith and works are not interchangeable.

Some are fond of saying a 'dead' man can do nothing on his own, but are more than willing to believe a 'dead' faith can save.

Here's your second flaw in your reasoning. You automatically assume, and want to frame the exchange as me and basically everyone else but you, when we speak of faith we are automatically speaking of dead faith. You're trying to poison the well.

How do we know faith is real? Can you show us without works? As James said, 'show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.' How will you show us your faith NB?

Are you sitting in judgment over me here? Where do you get off demanding that i demonstrate my faith on an internet discussion board? What would you have me do?

James also said, 'But do you want to know, o foolish man, that faith without works is dead?' NB, do you know faith without works is dead? Do you want to know? Do you know Abraham was justified by his works?

Abraham was counted righteous by faith. Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness. He did what God asked, and proved his faith by his works, but if the faith hadn't been present first, the works would have accounted for nothing.

Where do you get off interrogating me? I made a true statement, both in the natural realm, and it applies to the spiritual realm as well. You immediately try to negate it by accusing me of something I did not say, or mean. Why? I'm thinking it's because you know that my analogy blows a hole in your false doctrine big enough to drive that horse and cart through.

By the way, James is not talking about the cart before the horse; you want us to believe a 'dead' horse can pull the cart. Perhaps you can show us how a 'dead' horse can do anything.

I never said anything even remotely like that, and you know it. I never said anything about a dead horse, that's YOUR spin on it. The reason you're trying to spin it, is because that little analogy actually shoots down your whole works-based salvation false doctrine.

To top it off, James gave us an example of 'dead' faith. 'For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also'. I ask, what can a body do without the spirit? Be honest, give us examples of bodies doing something without the spirit. This should be interesting. But yet, you want us to believe, a dead faith can do what a dead body can't.

Please show me where I said that I "want (you) to believe, a dead faith can do what a dead body can't." I never, ever said such a false, anti-biblical thing. What you are doing is lying, pure and simple. Liars do not enter Heaven.

Since it's obvious that you're agenda here is to disrupt, cause strife, and make false accusations, I will say only that when you are ready to have a constructive conversation based on what I have ACTUALLY said, without assumptions and false accusations, I will then, and only then, answer your questions. You've made several blatantly false accusations against me here, and then acted as though I were under interrogation. I do not, and will not participate any longer in a discussion with a contentious man such as yourself.
.

 

[Albion]

Yeah, but do you agree with James' view? Seems many believe a dead faith can save.

Help us out here. Who believes that? Are you referring to Universalists or to the idea that sincere pagans can be saved?

 

[Thursday]

James says faith without works is dead.

Discuss.


....

James also says:

24You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

 

[Thursday]

Help us out here. Who believes that? Are you referring to Universalists or to the idea that sincere pagans can be saved?

Calvinists believe that works are unrelated to salvation.

 

[Albion]

Calvinists believe that works are unrelated to salvation.

"Calvinists" (and most other Protestants) believe that works do not earn us salvation, in whole or in part, but that they are the fruit of Saving Faith.

It would not be correct to say that these people think of works as "unrelated" to salvation.

That correction aside, the question I asked was about who believes that a "dead faith" can save. That is what was alleged in the above post and that is what I asked about.

 

[Thursday]

"Calvinists" (and most other Protestants) believe that works do not earn us salvation, in whole or in part, but that they are the fruit of Saving Faith.

It would not be correct to say that these people think of works as "unrelated" to salvation.

That correction aside, the question I asked was about who believes that a "dead faith" can save. That is what was alleged in the above post and that is what I asked about.

Calvinists believe in unconditional election.

 

[Albion]

Calvinists believe in unconditional election.

Are you just throwing out terms now? Or do you not understand what I explained in my previous post? Or is it that you do understand my point but disagree with it?

 

[AsPatat]

Gotta get faith first
But it has to be given

Agreed. Works without faith? I don't know about that...

Next I would have to ask myself exactly what works are expected. Don't sin? I don't know if that is wholly possible for me.

Matthew 7:2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured unto you.

Matthew 7:15 Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravening wolves.
16 By their fruits ye shall know them. Do [men] gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but the corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Therefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father who is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy by thy name, and by thy name cast out demons, and by thy name do many mighty works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.