It is time for a new Holy Inquisition

[chaoschristian]

Matt 18:17: "If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector."

Translation: It is the Church resposibility to cast out unrepentant sinners until they repent. Learn your Bible.

The whole text:

15"If your brother sins against you,[b] go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. 16But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.'[c] 17If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

Interesting. How was it that Jesus treated the pagans and tax collectors again?

If we start casting out everyone that doesn't measure up to our standards of religious fidelity we will soon find ourselves in a singular faith.

 

[Michael96]

While the Church may feel better for having a good "clear out" of people who don't measure up (to whose standards I wonder?), I'm not sure that would help overall. A small battle may be won, but if hearts and minds aren't won in the process then it will be a Pyrrhic victory.

I also personally don't recognise inquisitions/excommunications as being in line with the Gospel message of Our Lord. While the intention may be loving and "medicinal" the motivation often seems to be otherwise.

Mark 2:15-17: While Jesus was having dinner at Levi's house, many tax collectors and "sinners" were eating with him and his disciples, for there were many who followed him. When the teachers of the law who were Pharisees saw him eating with the "sinners" and tax collectors, they asked his disciples: "Why does he eat with tax collectors and 'sinners'?" On hearing this, Jesus said to them, "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners."

Yes, we may treat them as "tax collectors" (Matt 18:17) but don't forget that Christ was happy to eat with the same tax collectors.

 

[katholikos]

Right, the Church, not yours.....

Correct. But I can still offer my opinion that this is what they should do.

 

[Fish and Bread]

Right, the Church, not yours.

Also, the Church understands the complexity of the issue, and its why, even the USCCB have not reached a
consensus on how to handle the situation.

However, its their job to do, not ours.

This is an excellent point. I don't understand why so many folks feel it is their responsibility to tell the Pope and the bishops what to do in such vehement terms. Let the Pope and the bishops be the Pope and the bishops, let the laity be the laity.

 

[chaoschristian]

chaoschristian: Your point is well taken.

Really? I mean, really?

However, are we to sit by and do nothing to save the millions of unborn who are being slaughtered?

I don't do nothing. There's an agency in my town called Tender Care. They provide free sonograms to pregnant woman and food, clothing and other items for women who have infants and toddlers. They are responsible for hundreds of women deciding against abortion, for turning men who would try to 'force their hand' away from their own selfishness and upon occasion, being the instruments of conversion in helping men and women find faith in Christ.

I support that agency with time and money.

There's no such thing as doing nothing.

Clearly "gentle persuasion" has done nothing to save them!

Write. Vote. Two things that always work in the long run.

The only thing that might work is to shame these politicians and/or scare them.

And you're in a position to decide this? How do know it will work? How do you it won't backfire in a tragic way? How do know it isn't just a really, really bad idea?

I do not like the thought of having to resort to such drastic measures.

Yes you do or you wouldn't have posted it, if you were at all serious in posting it.

However, does anyone on this board have a better solution? I have thought about this problem for many years and I cannot think of any other way to get these elected officials to change their minds.

Write. Vote. See above.

 

[katholikos]

.....If we start casting out everyone that doesn't measure up to our standards of religious fidelity we will soon find ourselves in a singular faith.

No, because we also forgive them 70-times-7 times.

But understand, these Catholic politicians and judges have been told for years and years to stop supporting abortion and they have not. And their bishops have told them time and time again to cease, and they have not. So at some point excommunication becomes the final step. And it is my personal opinion that we have gone way past that point.

Look at old Teddy Kennedy. He's been pulling this crap in the Senate for 30-plus years. He's used up his 70/7 forgivenesses. Now its time for the boot!

 

[chaoschristian]

He's used up his 70/7 forgivenesses.

Maybe it's time for you to get a refresher on the Catechism.

 

[katholikos]

Maybe it's time for you to get a refresher on the Catechism.

....says the non-Catholic

 

[JimR-OCDS]

....says the non-Catholic

and this makes him less Christian?

Jim

 

[Dominus Fidelis]

I think he meant a non-Catholic is being authoritative on Catechism teachings.

 

[Basil the Great]

I suppose it is possible for a particular non-Catholic to be more informative of the Catechism teachings than most Catholics.

 

[katholikos]

and this makes him less Christian?

Jim

No. It means he should not attempt to give me lessons in the Catechism, a book which I have studied and own several copies of. Unless he has studied more than me, which I am willing to bet he hasn't

 

[HisKid1973]

A good crisis with martial law rounding up "dissidents" will tell if your a wheat or tare real fast..Interesting that it's those luke warm that He spews out....Luke warm is a scary place as you don't realize it...

 

[Dominus Fidelis]

I suppose it is possible for a particular non-Catholic to be more informative of the Catechism teachings than most Catholics.

Sure, but I kind of doubt it it the Catholic takes his faith seriously enough to be on a forum about it. The ones that are Catholic by culture, or name, or routine, probably don't know their Catechism.

 

[HisKid1973]

and this makes him less Christian?

Jim

I wondered about that remark too.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Funny, it has never occured to me to see if person was Catholic or not. I really don't care.

He's either speaking what is true, or he's not.



Jim

 

[Dominus Fidelis]

Yep, but he made the remark that "someone ought to learn the Catechism."

 

[HisKid1973]

No. It means he should not attempt to give me lessons in the Catechism, a book which I have studied and own several copies of. Unless he has studied more than me, which I am willing to bet he hasn't

Man bro....have you ever studied what pride is ?

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Yep, but he made the remark that "someone ought to learn the Catechism."

Because what was said, was contrary to what the Catechism teaches us.

So, he apparently knows the Catechism better than the professed Catholic.

Jim

 

[chaoschristian]

....says the non-Catholic

You assume too much.