Israel's PROMISED Fulness

[random person]

Paul writes that in Christ there is neither Jew or Gentile, and these are the differences Danoh just described. What you're describing here is the Church. That is the new identity, not Israel.

To me it's like Israel is the old identity, and the Church is the new creation in Christ. To say that Israel is the new is not new at all, it was the old.

The Church represents the everlasting covenant. It is irrevocable.

If a Jew desires to be a part of God's Israel, he must accept Christ now while there is still breathe in his lungs not follow the Mosaic Law as per Galatians 5:1-6, otherwise the Jew has fallen from grace. The Land promises in Palestine of Abraham have been dissolved and now the inheritance is heaven itself. The seed of Abraham doesn't receive Palestine as an inheritance, the seed of Abraham now receives heaven itself instead.

The same rules apply to Jews as it does to Gentiles. There is no preferential treatment before God. All Jews are equally accountable to Christ as are all Gentiles.

God dissolved the Old Covenant entirely and changed the ethnic make-up of chosen people as per 1 Peter 2:9-10.

The land promises, the levitical priesthood, the holiest of holies, the temple were all types and shadows of Christ and Heaven. These shadows no longer exist and will never exist ever again.

 

[random person]

Galatians 5:1-6 condemns followers of the Mosaic covenant and circumcision identity (Genesis 17:14).

Everyone must come through Christ. These conditions are irrevocable and eternal now.

 

[Biblewriter]

The Church represents the everlasting covenant. It is irrevocable.

If a Jew desires to be a part of God's Israel, he must accept Christ now while there is still breathe in his lungs not follow the Mosaic Law as per Galatians 5:1-6, otherwise the Jew has fallen from grace. The Land promises in Palestine of Abraham have been dissolved and now the inheritance is heaven itself. The seed of Abraham doesn't receive Palestine as an inheritance, the seed of Abraham now receives heaven itself instead.

The same rules apply to Jews as it does to Gentiles. There is no preferential treatment before God. All Jews are equally accountable to Christ as are all Gentiles.

God dissolved the Old Covenant entirely and changed the ethnic make-up of chosen people as per 1 Peter 2:9-10.

The land promises, the levitical priesthood, the holiest of holies, the temple were all types and shadows of Christ and Heaven. These shadows no longer exist and will never exist ever again.

Every thing you have said here is exactly correct, except the last part of two sentences. There is no scripture anywhere that says that God changed the ethnic makeup of His chisen people. Nor is there any scripture that says that the types and shadows of the Old Testament worship will never exist again.

ALthough the scriptures indeed say, and say in plain words, that God will bring all Israel back to their ancient homeland and bless them there. They also say, again in plain words, that this will be only after He has purged out all the rebels from their midst, and all the rest have repented and truly turned to Him.

 

[random person]

Just because there is no difference between Jews and Gentiles in the new doesn't mean that there isn't (or was not) a difference then and even now.

Paul says so - Jews, Gentiles, Church

Do you realize why there is no difference?

Under the Old Covenant, there was a difference.

Under the New Covenant, there is no difference.

Because in Christ, both Jews and Gentiles are one in Christ.

What the Mosaic covenant divided, Christ brought into one.

Jews were once obligated to circumcision (Genesis 17:14) and the Mosaic Covenant, but no longer, NOW Jews are ONLY obligated to Christ.

 

[ThatTrueLight]

The Church represents the everlasting covenant. It is irrevocable.

If a Jew desires to be a part of God's Israel, he must accept Christ now while there is still breathe in his lungs not follow the Mosaic Law as per Galatians 5:1-6, otherwise the Jew has fallen from grace. The Land promises in Palestine of Abraham have been dissolved and now the inheritance is heaven itself. The seed of Abraham doesn't receive Palestine as an inheritance, the seed of Abraham now receives heaven itself instead.

The same rules apply to Jews as it does to Gentiles. There is no preferential treatment before God. All Jews are equally accountable to Christ as are all Gentiles.

God dissolved the Old Covenant entirely and changed the ethnic make-up of chosen people as per 1 Peter 2:9-10.

The land promises, the levitical priesthood, the holiest of holies, the temple were all types and shadows of Christ and Heaven. These shadows no longer exist and will never exist ever again.

You said that Israel is the new when it is clear that Israel is the old.

So how did you go from that to this?

 

[random person]

You said that Israel is the new when it is clear that Israel is the old.

So how did you go from that to this?

Read Galatians 6:15-16!

Where it states circumcision and uncircumcision does not matter anymore both are included into Israel. Israel is not about land or ethnicity, it is all about the citizens of the Kingdom of God.

 

[ThatTrueLight]

Do you realize why there is no difference?

Under the Old Covenant, there was a difference.

Under the New Covenant, there is no difference.

Because in Christ, both Jews and Gentiles are one in Christ.

What the Mosaic covenant divided, Christ brought into one.

Jews were once obligated to circumcision (Genesis 17:14) and the Mosaic Covenant, but no longer, NOW Jews are ONLY obligated to Christ.

When speaking of the Church, yes there is neither Jew or Gentile in Christ.

Although not all men are in the Church, right?

Apart from the Church there are still Jews and Gentiles, according to Paul. Why else would he write to give none offense, to the Jews, the GENTILES, or the Church?

 

[ThatTrueLight]

Read Galatians 6:15-16!

Where it states circumcision and uncircumcision does not matter anymore both are included into Israel. Israel is not about land or ethnicity, it is all about the citizens of the Kingdom of God.

Ok, read Galatians.

Now how does that change what you said?

You said Israel is the new, when it is clear that Israel is the old.

 

[ThatTrueLight]

Isn't this fairly simple?

Israel was all over the Old Trstament while the Church was not.

Now the Church is all over the New Testament while Israel is not.

How is this difficult?

 

[random person]

Every thing you have said here is exactly correct, except the last part of two sentences. There is no scripture anywhere that says that God changed the ethnic makeup of His chisen people. Nor is there any scripture that says that the types and shadows of the Old Testament worship will never exist again.

ALthough the scriptures indeed say, and say in plain words, that God will bring all Israel back to their ancient homeland and bless them there. They also say, again in plain words, that this will be only after He has purged out all the rebels from their midst, and all the rest have repented and truly turned to Him.

No, God never promised to bring Israel back in unbelief, besides the promised land was under the Mosaic Covenant not under the New Covenant. The promised land represented a shadow or type of Heaven.

Read 2 Corinthians 5:1; Hebrews 9:11; Hebrews 11:9-10,13-16!

And additionally, yes, God did change the ethnic make-up of his chosen people. READ 1 Peter 2:9-10 (VERSE 10 is explicitly referring to Gentiles NOT Jews) now compare it to Exodus 19:5-6.

Now read this portion of the first passage:

Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

Who is the red referring to? Jews? Or Gentiles?

Were the Jews ever not a people under the Mosaic Covenant? Have the Jews never received mercy under the Mosaic Covenant?

 

[random person]

Isn't this fairly simple?

Israel was all over the Old Trstament while the Church was not.

Now the Church is all over the New Testament while Israel is not.

How is this difficult?

And the Old Testament points to Christ and the Church, who is the Bride of Christ. The Old Testament was a different age and a different covenant. That age and covenant officially ended in A.D. 70.

Just as Israel was a Bride to God, but now the Church is the Bride to God.

God divorced Israel and married the church. But he isn't going to divorce the church and remarry Israel.

 

[ThatTrueLight]

And the Old Testament points to Christ and the Church, who is the Bride of Christ. The Old Testament was a different age and a different covenant. That age and covenant officially ended in A.D. 70.

Just as Israel was a Bride to God, but now the Church is the Bride to God.

God divorced Israel and married the church. But he isn't going to divorce the church and remarry Israel.

Then let me ask you again.

Why did you say that Israel is the new?

Isn't the Church the new?

I don't know how you went from that to this all of a sudden.

 

[random person]

Then let me ask you again.

Why did you say that Israel is the new?

Isn't the Church the new?

I don't know how you went from that to this all of a sudden.

RED represents the Jews (the circumcision)

BLUE represents the Gentiles (the uncircumcision)

GREEN represents the Church

For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God. Galatians 6:15-16

But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy. 1 Peter 2:9-10

cf.

Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel. Exodus 19:5-6

 

[random person]

bump

 

[ThatTrueLight]

And how exactly does this make Israel the new as you said before?

That's all I'm asking.

 

[random person]

And how exactly does this make Israel the new as you said before?

That's all I'm asking.

Well, lets see, an uncircumcised Jew under the Abrahamic and subsequently under the Mosaic covenant was worthy of death and was to be cut-off from the promises (Genesis 17:14).

Under the New Covenant, uncircumcision neither circumcision avails nothing. Meaning Jewish identity means nothing. (Galatians 6:15-16)

Jews and Gentiles in Christ both qualify as the seeds of Abraham and heirs to the promises. (Galatians 3:28-29)

Jews and Gentiles are both a chosen generation, are both a royal priesthood, are both a holy nation and peculiar people. (1 Peter 2:9-10)

This was not so under the Mosaic covenant, it required Gentiles to covert to the Jewish religion and also to be circumcised.

Under the Old Covenant, they worshipped God at a physical Temple set in Jerusalem, where the Spirit of God dwelt, now under the New Covenant, the Spirit of God dwells not in a physical temple but rather believers themselves. The Temple of God is now made up of living stones not stones and precious metals of a physical Temple set in Jerusalem. We no longer worship God in a Temple set in Jerusalem, we worship God in Spirit. (1 Peter 2:5 & John 4:21-24)

 

[ThatTrueLight]

Well, lets see, an uncircumcised Jew under the Abrahamic and subsequently under the Mosaic covenant was worthy of death and was to be cut-off from the promises (Genesis 17:14).

Under the New Covenant, uncircumcision neither circumcision avails nothing. Meaning Jewish identity means nothing. (Galatians 6:15-16)

Jews and Gentiles in Christ both qualify as the seeds of Abraham and heirs to the promises. (Galatians 3:28-29)

Jews and Gentiles are both a chosen generation, are both a royal priesthood, are both a holy nation and peculiar people. (1 Peter 2:9-10)

This was not so under the Mosaic covenant, it required Gentiles to covert to the Jewish religion and also to be circumcised.

Under the Old Covenant, they worshipped God at a physical Temple, where the Spirit of God dwelt, now under the New Covenant, the Spirit of God dwells not in a physical temple but rather believers themselves. The Temple of God is now made up of living stones not stones and precious metals. We no longer worship God in Jerusalem, we worship God in Spirit. (1 Peter 2:5)

So this is what makes Israel new to you?

Sorry I don't get it.

Israel is all over the old.

The Church is the new.

That's how I see it.

 

[random person]

So this is what makes Israel new to you?

Sorry I don't get it.

Israel is all over the old.

The Church is the new.

That's how I see it.

The Old Testament represented types and shadows of the New and served as examples to the Church.

Let me put it frankly, the Mosaic Covenant is behind us. All that there is left now is the New Covenant. The rules have changed. The New Covenant supercedes the Mosaic Covenant.

The Mosaic Covenant has ceased to exist. And those that choose to still follow it, will fall from God's grace. Christ profits them nothing.

Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

God can't save a follower of the Mosaic Law until that individual comes to Christ. Because they stand condemned by the Law without Christ thus a debtor to perform the WHOLE LAW and fallen from grace, while Christ remains unprofitable and of no effect for their salvation.

 

[Danoh]

Well, lets see, an uncircumcised Jew under the Abrahamic and subsequently under the Mosaic covenant was worthy of death and was to be cut-off from the promises (Genesis 17:14).

Under the New Covenant, uncircumcision neither circumcision avails nothing. Meaning Jewish identity means nothing. (Galatians 6:15-16)

Jews and Gentiles in Christ both qualify as the seeds of Abraham and heirs to the promises. (Galatians 3:28-29)

Jews and Gentiles are both a chosen generation, are both a royal priesthood, are both a holy nation and peculiar people. (1 Peter 2:9-10)

This was not so under the Mosaic covenant, it required Gentiles to covert to the Jewish religion and also to be circumcised.

Under the Old Covenant, they worshipped God at a physical Temple set in Jerusalem, where the Spirit of God dwelt, now under the New Covenant, the Spirit of God dwells not in a physical temple but rather believers themselves. The Temple of God is now made up of living stones not stones and precious metals of a physical Temple set in Jerusalem. We no longer worship God in a Temple set in Jerusalem, we worship God in Spirit. (1 Peter 2:5 & John 4:21-24)

Yours are nothing more than Replacement ideas, and nothing more than that.

 

[random person]

Yours are nothing more than Replacement ideas, and nothing more than that.

You are actually the replacement theology because you deny the Holy Spirit inspired words of Christ, Paul, and Peter.

The Old Covenant is out. The New Covenant is in.

The whole Old Testament conforms to New Testament redefinitions.

God's chosen are all who accept Christ (no matter whether they be Jews or Gentiles). They are all Abraham's seed and heirs to the Abrahamic promises. Jews and circumcision has no elevated status nor special status under the New Covenant.