Israel and USA: Best Friends

[Emun]

Israel and the US have a very close relationship. I guess the relationship between Israel and the US is greater than Europe and the US. I think the reason why Israel and the US are pretty strongly allied has to do with 2 things: evangelicalism and money.

Evangelicalism: There are many evangelicals in the USA and it is no secret that most evangelicals are Christian Zionists. They are convinced that Israel is still the people of God and hold to the idea that whoever blesses Israel will be blessed. They are partly so radical that they see every opponent of Israel as a demon, as an enemy of God.

Money: The Israeli lobby apparently buys the favor of politicians through donations.

Where will this friendship lead? Biden said that one does not have to be a Jew to be a Zionist. The USA is ready to go far with Israel, even to the downfall. The evangelicals with their unorthodox teachings will go down with Israel.

 

[timothyu]

The DSA also uses Israel as an excuse to continually meddle in and destabilize the Middle
East.

 

[JacksBratt]

Israel and the US have a very close relationship. I guess the relationship between Israel and the US is greater than Europe and the US. I think the reason why Israel and the US are pretty strongly allied has to do with 2 things: evangelicalism and money.

Evangelicalism: There are many evangelicals in the USA and it is no secret that most evangelicals are Christian Zionists. They are convinced that Israel is still the people of God and hold to the idea that whoever blesses Israel will be blessed. They are partly so radical that they see every opponent of Israel as a demon, as an enemy of God.

Money: The Israeli lobby apparently buys the favor of politicians through donations.

Where will this friendship lead? Biden said that one does not have to be a Jew to be a Zionist. The USA is ready to go far with Israel, even to the downfall. The evangelicals with their unorthodox teachings will go down with Israel.

You are right. Israel is still the people of God. The apple of His eye.
Us "gentiles" have been adopted into that family throught the cross. Technically, IMO, there is no "Israel", "Gentile" separation right now. There is only believers and non believers.

When the tribulation comes... however, then there will be the 144,000 who turn from non messianic Jewish belief.. where they are still waiting for their Messiah..

They will turn and be full believers in their savior, Jesus.

So, the nation and people and race of the lineage of the Jewish people, is still very much the apple of God's eye.

I do believe that a nation that turns against Israel, will not do well..

I also believe that the nation of Israel, that exists today, will never lose their present land and power to another foe.

 

[BobRyan]

Israel and the US have a very close relationship. I guess the relationship between Israel and the US is greater than Europe and the US. I think the reason why Israel and the US are pretty strongly allied has to do with 2 things: evangelicalism and money.

It appears - that relationship began to fall apart under Obama and then again under Biden.

But incentive for it begins with democracy, opposition to USSR's communism, and opposition to Islamic terrorism that strikes the U.S. now and then.

Turns out Israel is an official ally with diplomatic relations and treaties - rather than a sworn enemy of the U.S. -- It is one of the few Middle East countries not dancing a jig of joy when the twin towers were hit in NY.,

So when countries wage terrorist war against it - declaring that they want to remove it from existence -- the U.S. tends to "object"

So yeah... "that sort of thing"

Evangelicalism: There are many evangelicals in the USA and it is no secret that most evangelicals are Christian Zionists. They are convinced that Israel is still the people of God and hold to the idea that whoever blesses Israel will be blessed.

True there are those that have that view. I think it is a mistaken view.
But the points I listed above - remain as facts to be considered.

Your OP seems to amount to "some people in the U.S. like Israel too much" as if that should change normal diplomatic policy.

 

[Emun]

You are right. Israel is still the people of God. The apple of His eye.
Us "gentiles" have been adopted into that family throught the cross. Technically, IMO, there is no "Israel", "Gentile" separation right now. There is only believers and non believers.

When the tribulation comes... however, then there will be the 144,000 who turn from non messianic Jewish belief.. where they are still waiting for their Messiah..

They will turn and be full believers in their savior, Jesus.

So, the nation and people and race of the lineage of the Jewish people, is still very much the apple of God's eye.

I do believe that a nation that turns against Israel, will not do well..

I also believe that the nation of Israel, that exists today, will never lose their present land and power to another foe.

You know what I wonder? Why do you call yourselves Protestants? The Reformers and also the Church Fathers believed in supersessionism, which means they believed that earthly Israel is no longer God's people and the Church alone is God's people and the promises belong only to the Church. They were also anti-Jewish.

So why do you call yourselves Protestants? This is impertinent to the historical Protestants.

 

[timothyu]

I also believe that the nation of Israel, that exists today, will never lose their present land and power to another foe.

But they are still only two of the 12 tribes of the House of Israel. Jesus came to reunite them, yet they still seek division.

 

[JacksBratt]

You know what I wonder? Why do you call yourselves Protestants? The Reformers and also the Church Fathers believed in supersessionism, which means they believed that earthly Israel is no longer God's people and the Church alone is God's people and the promises belong only to the Church. They were also anti-Jewish.

So why do you call yourselves Protestants? This is impertinent to the historical Protestants.

Typically the term "protestant" came from protesting the theology associated with the Catholic doctrine.
We don't need to confess to a Priest and we only call God "Father".
We don't believe in purgatory.
We don't believe in praying to the saints and Mary is not sinless.
We also don't believe that Peter was the "Rock" that Christ built His church on. We believe it was the simple fact that Jesus is the Son of God...
We don't believe that our leaders, pastors, should be celibate... But, if anyone in any career is going to put so much time and effort into their work that they will not be a good spouse or parent.... It's better they don't get married and have kids... only to neglect both.
We don't believe that the emblems of communion are the actual blood and body of Christ.. but mere symbols.

The list goes on.

But these are the things that the early "Protestants" protested in regards to the Roman Catholic church and the fact that they were lording over the people so..... they broke away.

If you are a Catholic and hold to these views.. that's fine, perfectly good with me..

I don't hold to those views and that is part of the freedom that we enjoy.

 

[JacksBratt]

But they are still only two of the 12 tribes of the House of Israel. Jesus came to reunite them, yet they still seek division.

That's true. However, you can still track the lineage of the twelve tribes and they have found pure Levites that will be the priests and carry the ark when it is found and when the temple is built and the sacrifices resume.

 

[Emun]

Typically the term "protestant" came from protesting the theology associated with the Catholic doctrine.
We don't need to confess to a Priest and we only call God "Father".
We don't believe in purgatory.
We don't believe in praying to the saints and Mary is not sinless.
We also don't believe that Peter was the "Rock" that Christ built His church on. We believe it was the simple fact that Jesus is the Son of God...
We don't believe that our leaders, pastors, should be celibate... But, if anyone in any career is going to put so much time and effort into their work that they will not be a good spouse or parent.... It's better they don't get married and have kids... only to neglect both.
We don't believe that the emblems of communion are the actual blood and body of Christ.. but mere symbols.

The list goes on.

But these are the things that the early "Protestants" protested in regards to the Roman Catholic church and the fact that they were lording over the people so..... they broke away.

If you are a Catholic and hold to these views.. that's fine, perfectly good with me..

I don't hold to those views and that is part of the freedom that we enjoy.

I am a Protestant. Protestantism was revived by the Reformers. If you call yourself a Protestant, it means that you follow the teachings of the Reformation.

You do not follow the teachings of the Reformation or the Church Fathers. You reject a unified doctrine. You say Israel is still God's people. The Church Fathers and the Reformers said no. You contradict them. The church fathers and reformers were also anti-Semites. Do you know what they thought about the Jews? Apparently not.

I beg you, stop calling yourself a Protestant. Stop corrupting my religion. Have respect.

You evangelicals have Darby as your father, you follow his teachings. Call yourself a Darbyst.

 

[timothyu]

and when the temple is built and the sacrifices resume.

For what purpose? it's not necessary any more. Why back tradition?

 

[JacksBratt]

For what purpose? it's not necessary any more. Why back tradition?

It is prophesied that they will go back to the sacrifices. It is in the bible that the anti Christ will sit in the Holy of Holies and desecrate the temple.

They have been waiting for the "Red Heifer" and, I believe that there have been pure "Red Heifers" born now.
They also have all of the religious implements and vessels for the temple sacrifices to resume.

 

[timothyu]

They have been waiting for the "Red Heifer" and, I believe that there have been pure "Red Heifers" born now.
They also have all of the religious implements and vessels for the temple sacrifices to resume.

Yes but isn't that as useless as waiting for a military leader messiah like in Jesus' day? Why do we even care or pay attention?

 

[JacksBratt]

I am a Protestant. Protestantism was revived by the Reformers. If you call yourself a Protestant, it means that you follow the teachings of the Reformation.

You do not follow the teachings of the Reformation or the Church Fathers. You reject a unified doctrine. You say Israel is still God's people. The Church Fathers and the Reformers said no. You contradict them. The church fathers and reformers were also anti-Semites. Do you know what they thought about the Jews? Apparently not.

I beg you, stop calling yourself a Protestant. Stop corrupting my religion. Have respect.

You evangelicals have Darby as your father, you follow his teachings. Call yourself a Darbyst.

Well, that is a lot of stuff that I never knew...

I always thought that there were Catholics... or Protestants..

Guess, since I still hold the Jewish people to be the people of God, even though they are included with us in the "church", if they accept that Christ was the messiah.
I have been grafted into the children of God and I am one.
I am for sure not an anti-Semite.

Then, I'm not Protestant... by your definition.


Based on all of what you have stated... I am simply a non denominational follower of Christ. I follow His teachings, His ways and His examples.

I have never really had a need to put myself in a category anyway.

I believe that we are born sinners, each and every one... and need Christ's salvation.. The seemingly infinite different theological dogma of how to worship or what religious actions people take or believe.. is draining. Each religion has different things you have to do... Do this, do that... don't do this.. don't do that.

With Christ... it's done..... He sees us as saved or lost... thats it.

 

[JacksBratt]

Yes but isn't that as useless as waiting for a military leader messiah like in Jesus' day? Why do we even care or pay attention?

I'm not sure what you mean.

Jews are still waiting for their messiah. I don't know much about it... but they do not hold Christ to be the messiah.

When the tribulation comes... There will be 144,000 Jews who will have their eyes opened and be saved. 12,000 from each tribe. These are non messianic Jews who are awakened to the fact that Christ was the Messiah.

 

[timothyu]

There will be 144,000 Jews who will have their eyes opened and be saved. 12,000 from each tribe.

That is an inaccurate statement but for some reason believed by many Christians. The Jews are but one of twelve tribes within the House of Israel. There will be 12000 from each tribe yes, meaning 12000 just from the Jews alone.

 

[JacksBratt]

That is an inaccurate statement but for some reason believed by many Christians. The Jews are but one of twelve tribes within the House of Israel. There will be 12000 from each tribe yes, meaning 12000 just from the Jews alone.

I disagree. There are 12 tribes of Israel. Israel is the Jewish people.

Your thoughts on this?

Revelation 7​

The 144,000 of Israel Sealed​

7 After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth, that no wind might blow on earth or sea or against any tree. 2 Then I saw another angel ascending from the rising of the sun, with the seal of the living God, and he called with a loud voice to the four angels who had been given power to harm earth and sea, 3 saying, “Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees, until we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads.” 4 And I heard the number of the sealed, 144,000, sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel:


5 12,000 from the tribe of Judah were sealed,
12,000 from the tribe of Reuben,
12,000 from the tribe of Gad,
6 12,000 from the tribe of Asher,
12,000 from the tribe of Naphtali,
12,000 from the tribe of Manasseh,
7 12,000 from the tribe of Simeon,
12,000 from the tribe of Levi,
12,000 from the tribe of Issachar,
8 12,000 from the tribe of Zebulun,
12,000 from the tribe of Joseph,
12,000 from the tribe of Benjamin were sealed.

 

[timothyu]

Israel is the Jewish people.

1/12th of Israel is the Jewish people (Judah) as you've shown above. Even Moses wasn't Jewish but a Levite from the tribe of Levi. So why do Christians equate Jews with the House of Israel as a whole when they are only a twelfth of Israelites?

 

[JacksBratt]

1/12th of Israel is the Jewish people (Judah) as you've shown above. Even Moses wasn't Jewish but a Levite from the tribe of Levi. So why do Christians equate Jews with the House of Israel as a whole when they are only a twelfth of Israelites?

Israel is made up of the twelve tribes.. Levites are one of the twelve.
The Jewish are not just those of Judah.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Israel does what's in the best interest of Israel, period.
As they believe, there are no true friends or enemies, just self-interest.

Pat Buchanan was called an antisemite when he stated that US
policy in the Middle East must be what's in the interest of the
United States, no one else. But he was right!

As far as Isael being the "chosen people," it meant that it was
through Israel that the world would receive salvation through
Jesus Christ. No other nation knew the one true God as Israel
did. Yet, look at what they did when Christ came?

As far as the 144,000 in the Book of Revelation, the number was
used and understood by scholars to mean many, beyond count.

As verse 7:9 states;

"After this I had a vision of a great multitude, which no one could count, from every nation, race, people, and tongue. They stood before the throne and before the Lamb, wearing white robes and holding palm branches* in their hands."

 

[timothyu]

The Jewish are not just those of Judah

Of course they are just those of Judah's tribe, and even called their brethren tribes gentiles