Is this case grounds for divorce?

[wonderwoman]

I am currently experiencing a personal crisis with my ex-boyfriend who is separated from his wife, but still married to her legally. Though this is a very personal issue, I am sharing this with you all in the hope to receive sound Godly, biblical wisdom regarding the topic of divorce and remarriage. For those who feel prompted to respond, I would like to know your thoughts on my particular case and your views regarding this very sensitive and life altering issue: Divorce and re-marriage. Please try to refrain from a spirit of condemnation and pat answers as I am in a fragile state and hurting. I ask for the true body of Christ to rise up and help comfort this bleeding limb.

Let me preface by stating that both my ex-boyfriend and I am currently seeking counseling in my church and have just begun to research in more depth what the Bible teaches on this topic. In addition to this, I am also, of course, seeking God through daily prayer. I am not hinging my decisions on the opinions of this forum since there is limitation here, but I want to seek God in this matter through all possible avenues available to me. I pray that God would use his body to reveal his will for my life through at least one person here.

I am 38 yrs. Old and have been a Christian for 20 yrs. My boyfriend is my age and has been a Christian for about 2 yrs., though he became a theist 6 yrs. prior to coming to Christ.. (He used to be an atheist before he had an experience which led him to believe that there was a God.) He later came to Christ not long before we met and has grown tremendously during the year and a half we have been together.

Let me briefly begin by explaining how I came to become involved in this relationship. I met him through a Christian dating site and cultivated a romantic long distance relationship with him via internet and phone calls. As the seriousness of our relationship progressed, we both decided to take the next step and planned to continue our relationship in person once he completed his degree in the coming 7 months. So the plan was for us to continue our courtship on line for 7 months, then if by then, we were both of the same mind, he would then move to my town and see how things went from there.

Now, for the important part: From the start of our relationship, he did tell me he was separated from his wife and was planning to divorce her. He married her 4 yrs prior to my meeting him and he became a Christian after they separated and before he met me. She is not a Christian. She’s actually a pantheist and was and still is struggling with alcoholism and drug addiction.

What caused their separation? Well, in essence, he told me she had an AA friend who she invited over to stay with them for a week. After the first night the girl stayed over, my boyfriend’s wife came to him and informed him that she and this girl had kissed that very night and that they were now “in love”. His wife then relapsed on heavy drugs with this other girl and a week later left him with this other woman. That was the story he told me then.

Based on this (infidelity and abandonment), I felt he was justified to divorce her in good conscience and therefore be free to be remarry in the future. The only thing preventing his filing for divorce was the lack of money and he planned to have all that finalized before he came to be with me. He assured me he was “over” her and wanted to move on with his life. Now, the story of the events I just explained above is not untrue, but they are only part of the story. I came to find out the full story just recently as a result of speaking with his still legal wife. Let me just insert that the 7th month plan fell apart due to the fact that his wife was coming back to move into the house he was living at. He was living with her parents (his in-laws) until he finished school. Her parents were accepting her to move back in, but he didn’t want to live under the same roof with her so he dropped out of school and came to live here in my town.

He’s been here for a yr. and a half and for this whole time he has wanted to file for divorce, but due to financial struggles, he could not do it. We live in NJ near NYC and the cost of living here is crazy expensive. The jobs he’s had thus far were barely paying for the basics. That’s mostly due to his not completing his degree. (But hopefully that will all change for him soon, but that’s another story)

Anyway, keep in mind that for this whole time we were together, though I was bothered he was still legally married, I saw that as a legal technicality believing that, in the eyes of God, he was justified to seek a divorce and therefore free to be with me and I with him. In other words, though I saw the certificate of divorce as important for personal resolution and legal matters, I believed that the minute his wife broke the marriage vow through infidelity and abandonment he had biblical grounds to dissolve that contract before God in good conscience even if he had not yet been able to attain the legal document. In retrospect, this was perhaps unwise on my part to actively engage in and accept the relationship before the actual legal paper work was finalized. I don’t know. Like I said the original plan was for the divorce to be finalized before he came to be with me. The only reason he came earlier than anticipated was because he had no where else to live (since it wasn’t his home) and he was unwilling to live there with her.

To get on with the story, he arrived; I put him up at a hotel until he could get on his feet. All this to say, our relationship remained sexually pure to this day, we got to know each other, shared many interests, fell in love, went to church together, cultivated a healthy godly relationship where we both prayed and studied the bible together. We both experienced spiritual growth as a result of one another’s influence and worked to build our relationship on Christ. The only loose end was the filing of the divorce. So far so good. Everything seemed peachy keen and now this brings me to the other side of the story.

Recently his wife googled his name and came across my website where his name is mentioned. She emailed me and asked me if this was the same person she knew. For this whole yr. he had no contact with her and he assumed he was still involved with this other lesbian woman. Neither of us knew whether or not she knew about me.

Back when she first left him she told him, via email, she wanted a divorce and he agreed. He told me this was the last time he spoke to her. To make a long story short, I basically found out from her that what had actually took place was that yes, she got wasted, kissed this girl and told him about it. But and this is a big but….she said that after that, he did get upset, but then 2 days later after her and the lesbian woman invited him to partake in a threesome he partook in it twice. He had sex with his wife and this other woman in a threesome. This lesbian girl presented them with the concept of “polyamoury” which is the union of a group relationship (more than 2 people). Keep in mind this all happened very quickly and was induced by drugs, lust and, for my boyfriend, a deeper psychological reaction to his learning of his wife’s betrayal, but I’ll go into that later. Keep also in mind that at this time he was not a Christian, not that that excuses such deplorable behavior, but he was living by another “spirit” at the time.

During this whole thing, he slept in a separate bedroom and his wife and this woman slept in their marriage bed as lovers. In the midst of this event, my boyfriend ended up developing an emotional attachment to this other lesbian as did his wife. The 3 of them had quickly decided to live together as a union.

My boyfriend then developed a stronger attachment to this other girl (the lesbian) and desired to leave with her and leave his wife behind. What ended up happening was that the lesbian girl preferred the wife and told his wife what he wanted and all hell broke loose. His wife, who was by now, blasted out of her mind on heroine, flipped out in a fit of jealous rage hurt by the fact that her husband had developed feelings for this other woman and wanted to leave with her. She ended up leaving with the lesbian instead and leaving her husband behind.

The two girls continued on in their drug abuse and lived together as lovers. My boyfriend, now sobered and still reeling from the shock of what had taken place, felt relieved to be out of that whole mess, though naturally he experienced depression, sorrow, and shame for what had taken place. She contacted him shortly after leaving, demanded a divorce and he agreed to it.

Time went by, he became a Christian and he met me. I also found out that somewhere in the middle of our internet courtship, she called him crying wanting to reconcile. Feeling moved by this, he told her he’d be waiting for her, then after getting off the phone with her, one hour later, changed his mind and chose to be with me in his heart. When she returned she had expected and hoped to reconcile to him, but he was gone before she arrived.

Keep in mind he hid all these things from me then and for the whole yr. we’ve been together. Once I found out (which was 2 weeks ago), I confronted him about it, he admitted to it with great shame and repentance.

You can imagine how devastated I felt and still feel. He is as well. I asked him why he lied to me and didn’t tell me the truth. He stated it was due to shame, denial and fear of losing me. He knew that I would never have gotten involved with him in the first place if I believed he was the adulterer (the offender).

After calming down and engaging in long discussions about this. He has come to own up to me, to God and to her that he did an evil thing by partaking in what she had started. In his words, “she started it and I finished it”.
He is now going through the process of repentance and counseling and is currently working on written letters of amends to his wife, his in laws and to me.

Now here is the pertinent question I have for this forum, he still wants to divorce her and feels, in his view, justified/free to do so biblically since she broke that vow first and committed adultery. Do you agree with this view? He feels that now that he is a Christian and is living a clean life, not only does he no longer love her, but he does not want to return to a life with her because of 1. The irreparable damage that was done as a result of that event and 2. Because of her constant relapses and instabilities. He said that when married to her, he felt committed to the marriage regardless of the relapses and wanted to hope in her sobriety, but that once she told him “I kissed this girl, I’m in love with her” he felt in his heart that “all bets are off”, it’s over. He told me that his initial reaction to this news of hers was anger, hurt, shock and emotional disembodiment. He shut himself up in a room for 2 days not knowing what to do. To make him feel better, she gave him one of her painkillers which gave him a buzz. When I asked him why did you join in with them sexually? How could you do that? He has never even cheated on a former girlfriend and always held fidelity and monogamy in such high esteem even when he wasn’t a Christian.

He explains that the reason was varied and he is still exploring in therapy why he did what he did. He sees, it was in part simple lust and the temptation of this sexual thing that was put before him, but another reason, in his rationale at the time, was “this is the way I will keep my wife” another reason was a twisted sort of revenge in his thinking. Meaning he thought to himself, “I will take what is yours (this lesbian girl) and defile it so none of you will have each other”. At any rate, he recognizes what an abomination it was what he did, but he still holds firm that she killed the sacredness of the marriage while he defiled the corpse.

Though I still love him, I have had to put things on hold between him and me since now I am not certain of what God’s will is regarding this whole matter. I don’t know if he is justified by God to have grounds for divorce or if God wants him to at least try to reconcile with her out of duty to his vow. I cannot go forward in this relationship until I know I have the green light from God and until the divorce is finalized (if God should sanction that).

I want to live in obedience to God’s will more than I want this relationship however fulfilling it has been before all this came to light. As much as it pains me to lose him, if it is not God’s will, I know that it is the best for me in the long run. God can’t bless what he does not sanction. I don’t yet know God’s will in this matter, but I am seeking.

I believe my boyfriend does genuinely love God and wants to know God’s will too, but he is still young in the Lord. He does not want to lose me and he does not believe God is asking him to reconcile with her. I just don’t know what to think.

I am currently studying in depth all that I can about what the bible teaches regarding, divorce, re-marriage etc. I am praying, seeking counseling at my church and now writing to you good folks for insight and advice. I can use all the help I can get. I would like your prayers for all of us if you remember. I’m sorry this letter is sooooo long. I just wanted to give a full picture of the situation so you can better understand the surrounding circumstances.
Thank you for taking the time to listen to my story.

Tearfully yours,
Monica

 

[Dorf]

First off if his wife had relations with another women, yes that is grounds for divorce. But on the other hand he is still legally married to this other women even if they don't live in the same house,town,state whatever he IS still married to her and should be divorced from her before persueing another women (you). I understand the money issue but that still doesn't change that he is still married. The bible says we are to give a certificate of divorce. It doesn't say only if we can afford it but it says we have to. Hope that helps

 

[Robinsegg]

Well, there are 3 principles I see here: 1. Adultery 2. a believing spouse and unbelieving spouse 3. fidelity.

1. Adultery is the reason Jesus gave for an "allowable" divorce. He did not say adultery had to equal divorce, but that it created a circumstance in which divorce was sometimes the lesser of two evils.

2. If both parties are unbelievers upon marriage, the fact that one comes to faith in Christ does not give the new believer license to divorce. See 1 Peter chapter 3 on this. It gives principles for the believing wife to try to win her husband, then gives the husband instructions with the statement "likewise" or in the same way. If we become believers, we are to stay in the marriage, if the unbelieving spouse wishes to do so, but also to allow the unbeliever to walk away, if they want.

3. Knowing what you know now . . . will you be able to have complete trust in him (in sexuality and in honesty), or will you always have doubts? If you've been sexually pure until this time, how will you feel about his sexuality, and suggestions he might make? Could there be other sexual issues about which you know nothing?

I hope I've given you some basic principles on which to study, pray, and make your decision. May the God of all Peace guide your paths.

Rachel

 

[LesleyDuckworth]

Yes, I think this is definitely grounds for divorce. However, you have alot of the same questions I have about these issues.

One main question I have is after a divorce for adultry, is it a sin to remarry? Every search I go to in the Bible tells me that it is. Of course, I don't want it to be but every time I look and study, that is the same answer I come away with.
Lesley in NC

 

[AutumnDreamer]

Does he have grounds for divorce? IMO no. The bible says marital unfaithfulness, they were both unfaithful, it does not matter who went first. He is still being unfaithful by dating you even though he is still married. That is not a technicallity. If his wife is asking to be forgiven and asking for a reconciliation, then e does not have grounds for divorce. He MUST forgive his wife if she is asking. My advice to you, would be to get out of a romantic relationship with him until he makes a decision of what to do. His counseling that he is getting should not be tainted by knowing that he has you. He has to make his decisions based on what the bible says, not on his emotions.

 

[bliz]

IMHO you have no business having a "boyfriend" who is still married to someone else. If he wants to write for advice about his marriage, great, but you should not be involved in those discussions with him in any way.

 

[wonderwoman]

First off if his wife had relations with another women, yes that is grounds for divorce. But on the other hand he is still legally married to this other women even if they don't live in the same house,town,state whatever he IS still married to her and should be divorced from her before persueing another women (you). I understand the money issue but that still doesn't change that he is still married. The bible says we are to give a certificate of divorce. It doesn't say only if we can afford it but it says we have to. Hope that helps

Hi Dorf,
Thanx for taking the time to read my post and thank you for your helpful insight. This is specifically for you, but also in response to what others here have stated in response to my original post.
.
Yes, I agree with you. He should have divorced her before pursuing another woman. Or rather he should not have pursued another woman while still legally married to her. He was still a young Christian at the time and thus did not understand this teaching and quite frankly, I did not either since I never really studied in depth what the bible teaches regarding this. I realize this now with more gravity. I guess my thinking (and his thinking) at the time, was that the divorce certificate was a mere "state" technicality and that God had granted him a "divorce" the minute she broke that covenant when she defiled it with that other woman. He had decided in his heart that he had "just cause" to divorce her and decided in his heart to God that he wished to not reconcile with her for this reason. My error was to accept his pursuit while he was still married.
I should not have given my heart to him via internet until that matter was resolved. The original agreement we had was that he would divorce her before he came to be with me and I guess that was why I was making an allowance, on my part, to be courted by him via internet. He would have been able to divorce her financially had she not returned to the house where he lived. The financial obstacles which prevented his filing for divorce occurred due to his coming here unprepared, without money and without a job etc.

What I have done since I found out about all this was to put a halt on the relationship until something (one way or the other) is resolved. I will not continue dating him while he is married to her even if he no longer wants to take her back, or love her. That is not the issue for me. He stopped loving and wanting her before he ever met me. I don't doubt that. I know he wants me. I believe him when he tells me that even if I decided to never take him back in the future, that he would still want and file for a divorce.

The issue I'm struggling with and the question I ask God is: Does he have just cause for initiating a divorce in God's sight? and if so, is this what God thinks is best? I think it's clear that God intended marriage to be permanent and that he hates divorce, but when sin came into the world and therefore "men's hearts were hardened", He, (as taught by Jesus and Paul. Matthew 19 & 1 cor. 7), seems to make 2 allowances or "just causes" for divorce for the sake of the offended party. From my studies so far, I see these 2 allowances being clearly taught. One is inappropriate contenteia and the other is dessertion.

1. As seen in Matthew 19: ("except for marital unfaithfulness")
"inappropriate contenteia" is the word Jesus uses. (The english translation is "marital unfaithfulness")This word is not the word "moicheia" which only means adultery, but inappropriate contenteia which includes adultery also has a wider meaning. It means: harlotry, adultery, sexual sin, incest, fornication, sexual immorality and (I'm not sure if this last one is correct or what its meaning is) "figurative idolatry".

2. Dessertion is the 2nd allowance Paul mentions in the 1 Corinthians passage.

Where things become muddled for me is the role he played in this whole ordeal. This is where the confusion comes in for me. Before, when I thought she was the only offender and abandoner, the entitlement to "just cause" seemed black and white to me, but now it's become complicated.

1. After her initial adultery, he then partakes in that threesome and does essentially what she has done. Does that fact then take away his entitlement to a "just cause" since he then did the same thing? Does it make a difference who did it first?

He knew then and knows now what a vile thing it was no matter what his rationale was at the time, but in his mind (at the time) he believed himself no longer bound to that covenant since she had already broken it. He still sees what he did as an evil thing in it of itself whether or not he was married to her. In fact He sees that the magnitude of that sin was even greater because she was his wife. He is convinced and certain that even then when he wasn't a Christian, he never would have done that to her. He was committed to monogamy and he believed she was as well. That was something they both verbally made clear to one another from the beginning of the marriage. They both promised to never leave the other unless one committed adultery. That is essentially one part of the marriage vow that most people (christian or not) agree upon. For him, he tells me what felt worse about the betrayal was not only the kiss, but her proclamation that now she was "in love" with this woman. He even admitted that had she come to him then in a repentant manner and confessed: "oh my God I messed up, I kissed this girl because I was high, please forgive me" he may have forgiven her in time and not want the divorce. But what he won't forgive, in the reconciliatory sense, is that it went even further than a physical betrayal and she gave her "love" to this other person. When she did this, he realizes he acted sinfully towards her (the threesome) out of anger, hurt, pain, self destruction and simple lust. As a natural consequence of sexual intimacy with this other lesbian girl, he ended up developing an emotional attachment to her; one that he recognizes, now in retrospect, as fleeting and ridiculous on his part. He was so shell shocked and hardened from learning his wife betrayed him that he simply allowed himself to get sucked into their sin as a way to numb the pain. It is not a justification, just an explanation.

2. OK, so after that all went down, she left him angrily and continued to live with this lesbian as lovers. When she got sober I guess she realized she wanted her husband back and went back to where he lived with the hopes to reconcile. When she got there he was gone and came to live here. Since she wanted to reconcile and may still want that today, (I'm not sure since she is still living with the lesbian girl), does that mean he is biblically obligated to take her back even if he doesn't want to? (I'm posing this question based on the 1 cor.7 passage)
In other words, if he is entitled to the adultery "just cause" allowance does that allowance supersede Paul's instructions on staying with the unbelieving spouse who is "willing" to live with him? Does he have a choice here as far as God is concerned or Does the bible teach he is obligated to stay with her if she wants to reconcile? Does the Paul passage apply to him in this case? Does he need both these reasons to justify "just cause" grounds for a divorce?

These are the questions I need answers to because if he is obligated to stay with her and not entitled to claim the "adultery" allowance, then that would mean I would be sinning if I chose to date him even after he gets a divorce. That would mean the divorce is unjustified and I am dating someone who should still be married. I am not dating him now and will not even consider to do so or not do so until all this is resolved.

He is currently planning to file for the divorce and believes he's got just cause based on the Matthew 19 passage and therefore not going against God's mandates, but I'm not convinced that this is correct. I don't know yet. If I base it on the fact that she did it first, then I can surmise that he does have just cause, but now that I know he did the same thing afterwards plus she expressed the desire to reconcile I am left with a big question mark as to what he is obligated to do in the eyes of God. Does he owe her reconciliation or is the choice left up to him?

I cannot make a life with him in good conscience until I know his divorce is "justified" by God. I take his opinion into account, but I cannot "trust" his judgment to be an objective one.
All I can do is seek, wait on God and listen for his voice. As long as I seek and trust God, I will not make a disobedient decision. This is what I'm holding on to.

Talking to all you guys about this is very helpful to me in getting a closer understanding of this thing, so thank you all for your insights and listening ears.

your sister in Christ,
Monica

 

[wonderwoman]

First off if his wife had relations with another women, yes that is grounds for divorce. But on the other hand he is still legally married to this other women even if they don't live in the same house,town,state whatever he IS still married to her and should be divorced from her before persueing another women (you). I understand the money issue but that still doesn't change that he is still married. The bible says we are to give a certificate of divorce. It doesn't say only if we can afford it but it says we have to. Hope that helps

Hi Dorf,
Thanx for taking the time to read my post and thank you for your helpful insight. This is specifically for you, but also in response to what others here have stated in response to my original post.
.
Yes, I agree with you. He should have divorced her before pursuing another woman. Or rather he should not have pursued another woman while still legally married to her. He was still a young Christian at the time and thus did not understand this teaching and quite frankly, I did not either since I never really studied in depth what the bible teaches regarding this. I realize this now with more gravity. I guess my thinking (and his thinking) at the time, was that the divorce certificate was a mere "state" technicality and that God had granted him a "divorce" the minute she broke that covenant when she defiled it with that other woman. He had decided in his heart that he had "just cause" to divorce her and decided in his heart to God that he wished to not reconcile with her for this reason. My error was to accept his pursuit while he was still married.
I should not have given my heart to him via internet until that matter was resolved. The original agreement we had was that he would divorce her before he came to be with me and I guess that was why I was making an allowance, on my part, to be courted by him via internet. He would have been able to divorce her financially had she not returned to the house where he lived. The financial obstacles which prevented his filing for divorce occurred due to his coming here unprepared, without money and without a job etc.

What I have done since I found out about all this was to put a halt on the relationship until something (one way or the other) is resolved. I will not continue dating him while he is married to her even if he no longer wants to take her back, or love her. That is not the issue for me. He stopped loving and wanting her before he ever met me. I don't doubt that. I know he wants me. I believe him when he tells me that even if I decided to never take him back in the future, that he would still want and file for a divorce.

The issue I'm struggling with and the question I ask God is: Does he have just cause for initiating a divorce in God's sight? and if so, is this what God thinks is best? I think it's clear that God intended marriage to be permanent and that he hates divorce, but when sin came into the world and therefore "men's hearts were hardened", He, (as taught by Jesus and Paul. Matthew 19 & 1 cor. 7), seems to make 2 allowances or "just causes" for divorce for the sake of the offended party. From my studies so far, I see these 2 allowances being clearly taught. One is inappropriate contenteia and the other is dessertion.

1. As seen in Matthew 19: ("except for marital unfaithfulness")
"inappropriate contenteia" is the word Jesus uses. (The english translation is "marital unfaithfulness")This word is not the word "moicheia" which only means adultery, but inappropriate contenteia which includes adultery also has a wider meaning. It means: harlotry, adultery, sexual sin, incest, fornication, sexual immorality and (I'm not sure if this last one is correct or what its meaning is) "figurative idolatry".

2. Dessertion is the 2nd allowance Paul mentions in the 1 Corinthians passage.

Where things become muddled for me is the role he played in this whole ordeal. This is where the confusion comes in for me. Before, when I thought she was the only offender and abandoner, the entitlement to "just cause" seemed black and white to me, but now it's become complicated.

1. After her initial adultery, he then partakes in that threesome and does essentially what she has done. Does that fact then take away his entitlement to a "just cause" since he then did the same thing? Does it make a difference who did it first?

He knew then and knows now what a vile thing it was no matter what his rationale was at the time, but in his mind (at the time) he believed himself no longer bound to that covenant since she had already broken it. He still sees what he did as an evil thing in it of itself whether or not he was married to her. In fact He sees that the magnitude of that sin was even greater because she was his wife. He is convinced and certain that even then when he wasn't a Christian, he never would have done that to her. He was committed to monogamy and he believed she was as well. That was something they both verbally made clear to one another from the beginning of the marriage. They both promised to never leave the other unless one committed adultery. That is essentially one part of the marriage vow that most people (christian or not) agree upon. For him, he tells me what felt worse about the betrayal was not only the kiss, but her proclamation that now she was "in love" with this woman. He even admitted that had she come to him then in a repentant manner and confessed: "oh my God I messed up, I kissed this girl because I was high, please forgive me" he may have forgiven her in time and not want the divorce. But what he won't forgive, in the reconciliatory sense, is that it went even further than a physical betrayal and she gave her "love" to this other person. When she did this, he realizes he acted sinfully towards her (the threesome) out of anger, hurt, pain, self destruction and simple lust. As a natural consequence of sexual intimacy with this other lesbian girl, he ended up developing an emotional attachment to her; one that he recognizes, now in retrospect, as fleeting and ridiculous on his part. He was so shell shocked and hardened from learning his wife betrayed him that he simply allowed himself to get sucked into their sin as a way to numb the pain. It is not a justification, just an explanation.

2. OK, so after that all went down, she left him angrily and continued to live with this lesbian as lovers. When she got sober I guess she realized she wanted her husband back and went back to where he lived with the hopes to reconcile. When she got there he was gone and came to live here. Since she wanted to reconcile and may still want that today, (I'm not sure since she is still living with the lesbian girl), does that mean he is biblically obligated to take her back even if he doesn't want to? (I'm posing this question based on the 1 cor.7 passage)
In other words, if he is entitled to the adultery "just cause" allowance does that allowance supersede Paul's instructions on staying with the unbelieving spouse who is "willing" to live with him? Does he have a choice here as far as God is concerned or Does the bible teach he is obligated to stay with her if she wants to reconcile? Does the Paul passage apply to him in this case? Does he need both these reasons to justify "just cause" grounds for a divorce?

These are the questions I need answers to because if he is obligated to stay with her and not entitled to claim the "adultery" allowance, then that would mean I would be sinning if I chose to date him even after he gets a divorce. That would mean the divorce is unjustified and I am dating someone who should still be married. I am not dating him now and will not even consider to do so or not do so until all this is resolved.

He is currently planning to file for the divorce and believes he's got just cause based on the Matthew 19 passage and therefore not going against God's mandates, but I'm not convinced that this is correct. I don't know yet. If I base it on the fact that she did it first, then I can surmise that he does have just cause, but now that I know he did the same thing afterwards plus she expressed the desire to reconcile I am left with a big question mark as to what he is obligated to do in the eyes of God. Does he owe her reconciliation or is the choice left up to him?

I cannot make a life with him in good conscience until I know his divorce is "justified" by God. I take his opinion into account, but I cannot "trust" his judgment to be an objective one.
All I can do is seek, wait on God and listen for his voice. As long as I seek and trust God, I will not make a disobedient decision. This is what I'm holding on to.

Talking to all you guys about this is very helpful to me in getting a closer understanding of this thing, so thank you all for your insights and listening ears.

your sister in Christ,
Monica

 

[wonderwoman]

IMHO you have no business having a "boyfriend" who is still married to someone else. If he wants to write for advice about his marriage, great, but you should not be involved in those discussions with him in any way.

IMHO you have no business having a "boyfriend" who is still married to someone else. If he wants to write for advice about his marriage, great, but you should not be involved in those discussions with him in any way.

Dear bliz,

First of all, he is not my boyfriend now that I have found out the other side of the story. I am realizing now that I should not have allowed him to pursue me while he was still legally married even if he intended to divorce her and no longer loved her. That error in judgment took place out of ignorance on both our parts, so please don't come down on me so quickly. I explain this in more depth in another post.
I have been dating him for a yr. and a half and I have just now found out the other side of the story. You are telling me I should just put all that aside and not discuss any of this with him? Are you kidding me? I never would have considered even dating him then had I any doubt regarding his right to a justifiable divorce. He led me to believe that he did based on the one part of the story. As far as he was concerned, this was a settled matter for him before he even met me, before he became a christian, after he became a christian and that is why he thought it not wrong to seek out another relationship. He saw the divorce papers as a technicality as did I since his wife and he had decided on that at some point. What happened later was that she then changed her mind, but I did not know that.
The point is that he does owe me an explanation for his deceit since he led me to believe he was spotless in this matter. I have done the right thing by taking a step back and ended the relationship so that we can both work out what we need to, but don't tell me I don't have the right to come here to this forum to ask others about what they think is a biblically correct teaching regarding the right to divorce as to how it applies in the situation I'm in. He has given me permission to share the situation here on this forum. It is not wrong that I am discussing and praying about all this with him. I am completely supporting his communication with his estranged wife and would bless a reconciliation with her should he desire to do so, however painful it would be for me. I have played an integral part to help him him realize what he has done wrong not just to her, but to me. I want to do right by God, right by him and right by her. The first thing I did once I found out the truth was to deliver him into the hands of a christian marriage counselor at the church we go to.
I am doing what I have to do and encouraging him to do what he needs to do. Whether or not God blesses us with a future reunion, I am still, above all else, his sister in Christ. If he wants to ask me questions about what the bible teaches about divorce and wants to confess and analyze why he thinks he did what he did, I'm supposed to say no?
It is his belief and hope that his divorce is justifiable. He hopes he is right, but is open to God to show him differently. It is my hope that I would not lose this man permanently, but I desire to please God above all else no matter how painful it may be for us. Whether or not God blesses us with a future reunion, I am still, above all else, his sister in Christ.

Monica

 

[Robinsegg]

Is he obligated to stay with a spouse who does not want to stay with him (eg be in a monogamous marriage)? No. Does he have to stay with her after she's made this huge error? Good question. If she wants reconciliation, he should at least hear her out, and find out what that means to her. If she's willing to attempt a monogamous marriage with him . . . I'm not sure. However, that's not something we know right now.

She committed adultery, yes . . . and abandoned him. But the fact that he was willing to/did the same things would have me asking all sorts of questions for his future behavior. Also the fact that he kept it all from you when you were talking possible marriage.

One other thing . . . has he been tested for STD's? If not, that's something else I'd have done before agreeing to marriage, in such a case.

Rachel

 

[AutumnDreamer]

Does he have just cause for initiating a divorce in God's sight? and if so, is this what God thinks is best?

Divorce is NEVER God's will. Regardless of the circumstances, God's will is always that a couple stay together and love one another. The fact that he also had sex with this woman that his wife had sex with, does not entitle him to a divorce. Judge not lest ye be judged. He can not hold his wife accountable to something he also did, that is putting blame on her and leaving himself to have to no responsibility for his actions. It does not matter who did it first.

Does that fact then take away his entitlement to a "just cause" since he then did the same thing? Does it make a difference who did it first?

Yes, he is no longer pure, he has a huge log in his eye, that first needs to be taken out before he can try to remove the dust from her eye.

Since she wanted to reconcile and may still want that today, (I'm not sure since she is still living with the lesbian girl), does that mean he is biblically obligated to take her back even if he doesn't want to?

Yes. If she is willing to reconcile, and wants to make this marriage work, he is obligated to forgive her, just as Jesus forgave him of his sins. He is still married to her, at this point a good portion of his wanting a divorce has to do with you. I know you said you put a halt on your relationship, but if you told him that you would not be getting back together with him at all, he may think very differently about his wife wanting to reconile.

In other words, if he is entitled to the adultery "just cause" allowance does that allowance supersede Paul's instructions on staying with the unbelieving spouse who is "willing" to live with him? Does he have a choice here as far as God is concerned or Does the bible teach he is obligated to stay with her if she wants to reconcile?

Does the Paul passage apply to him in this case? Does he need both these reasons to justify "just cause" grounds for a divorce?

He always has a choice, either to walk in the will of God or to walk out of it. At this point the adultery does not give him just cause for a divorce, he commited adultery also, and with his wife right there. Unless it is completely mutual the adultery is not grounds for divorce, it does not matter that he was not a christian at the time, he is a christian now, and now is what he has to think about, not then. Paul was clear when he said if an unbelieving spouse is willing to live with you you must stay.

if he is obligated to stay with her and not entitled to claim the "adultery" allowance, then that would mean I would be sinning if I chose to date him even after he gets a divorce. That would mean the divorce is unjustified and I am dating someone who should still be married.

Yes, you would be sinning, b/c he would again be commiting adultery.

If I base it on the fact that she did it first, then I can surmise that he does have just cause, but now that I know he did the same thing afterwards plus she expressed the desire to reconcile I am left with a big question mark as to what he is obligated to do in the eyes of God. Does he owe her reconciliation or is the choice left up to him?

We have many ways of trying to justify our actions. That is what he is trying to do. He wants the easy way out, he wants to leave the unchristian wife behind and take the christian wife to "make everything better" He is wrong, and if you allow him to justify hisactions and marry him once he is divorce then you are wrong also.

 

[wonderwaleye]

Dear Wonderwoman

When his wife first committed adultery he was no longer married to her in GOD'S eyes. That action did divorce him. Now as to the other activities. He has committed sin. Not the unforgivable sin but REAL sin. He must go to GOD and ask forgiveness from his sin.

When He has done that and is cleansed from his sin he is free to seek another relationship. It sounds as if he has been through the fire and has come out a CHRISTIAN. Often a person that has been tried and came out a much better person could make for a good spouse.

GOD'S WORD says:

" GOLD IS TRIED BY FIRE AND MAN IN THE FIRE OF HUMILIATION "

If GOD has forgiven him who has the right not to.



REMEMBER:



“ Believe “ in Greek is a verb and has three components
which are: hearing, accepting, and then " ACTING " upon that which you have accepted.

X Even though you can't see him, GOD is there!!! O ( click on the x and drag to the O )
( then see who is with you ) steven

 

[wonderwoman]

Dear Robin,
Thanx for your thoughtful and wise insights on this matter. They have been of great help.
I did not realize back then or up until recently that I was equating the "allowability" with an automatic divorce. I was thinking along the lines that since he was allowed to divorce, decided to do so and was intending to do so, that that was "good" enough for God for the time being until he could afford to file. I was viewing the actual paper of divorce as a technicality. I realize now the error of this thinking.

In regards to him being a believer and she a nonbeliever, I never meant to imply that since he now was a believer he had the license to divorce her. I think the peter passage and 1 cor. 7 passage is clear that the believer is instructed to remain married so long as the unbelieving spouse is willing to stay married. If the unbelieving spouse left then the believing spouse is free to divorce and remarry. I think Paul is teaching this with the assumption that adultery is not the issue. I imagine he would have known of Jesus's teaching regarding adultery as an allowable grounds for divorce.

Again, let me make clear that I don't think that neither Paul or Jesus are in anyway stating that: "should your spouse commit adultery you should divorce, but he is saying that you are entitled or allowed to divorce should you decide that as a last resort. Heck 400 yrs prior to Jesus, adultery was punishable by death under the theocratic law mandated by God so divorce was merciful in comparison.

Adultery is a serious abomination to the sanctity of marriage. It is in direct opposition to what marriage is at its central core. "The two become one flesh" and in order to commit adultery the one half of that flesh must amputate itself in order to join with the extra marital flesh. The tearing away not only causes violent damage to itself and to its other half, but to the unit as a whole. Is it beyond repair? No. I think God would ideally want to mend what he joined to begin with, but God is also merciful and seems to leave the choice up to the offended party. If this were not so, why would Jesus make adultery the only acceptable allowance for divorce? Men were divorcing their wives for unacceptable and unjustified reasons. I read somewhere that the certificate of divorce was issued in order to protect the woman from the unfair stigma of adultery that would be assumed had her husband "put her out".

I mentioned he being a christian to point out that he became a christian after that whole event (the threesome) took place. Conversion is not grounds for divorce. I knew that then and now. He wanted to divorce her before and after he converted. Before he converted he was not basing his reason on the bible, he based it on the reason of the breaking of the vow she made to him. After he converted, he believes the Matthew 19 passage supports his entitlement to divorce her. I'm questioning whether his "entitlement" became void the minute he furthered the defilement of the "one fleshness" by committing sexual sin himself? Does he have the entitlement because she did it first? If not, and they both are equally at fault, does that mean they are both entitled to divorce the other? And if both are entitled to a divorce, is the divorce acceptable to God only if both offended parties are in agreement of a divorce rather than just one? Whew....my questions just keep turning into more questions.

As to your questions about trusting him. That is a whole separate issue and is something I must carefully weigh even if I come to learn that 1. he is entitled to a divorce. and 2. he actually then gets a divorce. Could I trust him again? Could I forgive him? Even if I get the green light from God to make a life with this man, I still have to make the decision as to whether or not I could forgive and trust him again. Believe me, that is something I have ever before me, but before I could even get to that point, I first have to get through the other two.

I feel like right now I have no choice but to back away from him. He is still married and may not be justified in divorcing. Once that is resolved one way or the other (divorce or reconciliation to his wife) then I will feel I have a true choice whether to be with him or not. I mean, of course if he reconciles to his wife the choice is moot, but if he justifiably divorces her, I then have the choice to forgive and start anew with him. Right now that is secondary to me. Part of me is really angry, hurt and disgusted with his behavior not just towards me, but towards his wife. I am mostly mad about the deceit. He has repented of the sexual sin and God has forgiven that.

As for the sexual dimension to all this, in all fairness to him, I tend to think what he did more of an anomaly to his character and not the norm. I mean this type of behavior does not seem to be his MO. I am basing this not on just what I've seen about him during our time together, but in what his wife saw in him as well. (she and I spoke). I cannot corroborate this with any of his ex-girlfriends, but he claims that even when he wasn't a christian, not only were his views on fidelity fierce, but when presented with the opportunity to cheat he never felt even tempted to do so since he valued the importance of a monogamous relationship. That is to say, he always desired monogamous relationships and rejected empty sexual casual encounters that are often seen as desirable to many of our generation. Even when he was single, he did not "seek" out women. When he was in relationships, he didn't even consider it appropriate to have other female friends. Since I have been with him, he has never shown me even an inkling that he was this "type" of guy. No inappropriate contento, no strip clubs, no admiration of "pretty" girls, no checking girls out and most of all, no "lustful" inappropriate behavior imposed upon me. He has been of like mind with me when it comes to chastity and has acted with nothing but respect in this regard. In fact, I regard him to be a person of low libido. The idea of a threesome has never been part of his vocabulary with regards to something he would want. All our discussions regarding these things as well as his behavior towards me and to our surrounding culture was always one of the qualities in his character that I admired most. I have dated some mature christians who struggled with these things to some degree and for him, a young christian, to feel and act so strongly about this area, was quite surprising. He considers what he did as an anomaly in his character brought on by the pain of betrayal, the anger of betrayal and self destructive behavior. Drug abuse also was a factor. He is adamant that had his wife not betrayed him first and he was later presented with the temptation to be part of a threesome he never would have done that, drugs or no drugs. This is his claim.

If I were to take him back under ideal circumstances , I would have to test this only through time and action, not on his word. In other words, he would really have to earn my trust again. Believe me, I would be veeeeeeeeeeeery cautious, slow and guarded with the progression of things.

I think you misunderstood me or I didn't make myself clear regarding my sexual purity. I am not a virgin. I became a christian in adulthood. I meant he and I have remained sexually pure. I feel very strongly about NO premarital sex and so does he.

Well I'll end this volume here. I can be long winded sometimes.
Thank you again for sharing your thoughts with me.
Monica

 

[wonderwoman]

Is he obligated to stay with a spouse who does not want to stay with him (eg be in a monogamous marriage)? No. Does he have to stay with her after she's made this huge error? Good question. If she wants reconciliation, he should at least hear her out, and find out what that means to her. If she's willing to attempt a monogamous marriage with him . . . I'm not sure. However, that's not something we know right now.

She committed adultery, yes . . . and abandoned him. But the fact that he was willing to/did the same things would have me asking all sorts of questions for his future behavior. Also the fact that he kept it all from you when you were talking possible marriage.

One other thing . . . has he been tested for STD's? If not, that's something else I'd have done before agreeing to marriage, in such a case.

Rachel

Hi Rachel,
He is now in the process of "hearing her out". She has not expressed to him that she wants reconciliation, but I think she wants it and is ambivalent because of the hurt she feels towards him. I think she is torn about it. I can't be sure. I've spoken to her about this. She said once no, then another time maybe. I think she still wants him but believes he never loved her otherwise he never would have fallen in love with me or left her when she tried to come back to him. She admits to making a huge mistake, but doesn't seem to take ownership for the adultery. She keeps blaming her infidelity on drugs and other excuses.
He has written to her and spoken to her on the phone. He is in the process of preparing a letter of amends for his part of wrong doing towards her both during the marriage, during that event and for having left without hearing her out when she wanted to return to him. He is trying to look at the role he played and wants to apologize to her for this. His amends is not with the intention of reconciliation, but who knows, maybe that will change. I am glad he is taking the steps to do what he should have done long ago.

She keeps saying she blesses our relationship and thinks I'm good for him, but I don't know if she is playing the role of the martyr. This is kind of something I've noticed in her upon talking to her. It's that drug addict victim mentality I know all too well.

Yes, if I do end up considering marrying him, I will not only make him get std tests, but polygraphs and listening devices on his person.
monica

 

[Lightcreated]

First off if his wife had relations with another women, yes that is grounds for divorce. But on the other hand he is still legally married to this other women even if they don't live in the same house,town,state whatever he IS still married to her and should be divorced from her before persueing another women (you). I understand the money issue but that still doesn't change that he is still married. The bible says we are to give a certificate of divorce. It doesn't say only if we can afford it but it says we have to. Hope that helps

No there's is never to be devorce ever, you need to go back and read your bible slowly and carefully as you pray to the Lord for understanding and compare scripture with scripture that's how we are to read the Bible and you will see there are no grounds for devorce. That why when we are married it saids death do us part, not if my wife or husband cheat's on me.And if you are dating a married man or cheating on you spouse you are doing a terrible thing

 

[Lightcreated]

You people need to read the Bible more carefully because the advice you are giving this person is dangerous.The fact is when the 2 said i do that was a contract with the Lord that can not be broke until 1 of the spouses die, thats why its saids death do us part,.
If there were grounds for devorce then there would be no1 saved because we sin everyday all day long all our lives and never does the Lord leave us, so how can you people say there grounds for devorce when there's never to be devorce .

 

[wonderwaleye]

No there's is never to be devorce ever, you need to go back and read your bible slowly and carefully as you pray to the Lord for understanding and compare scripture with scripture that's how we are to read the Bible and you will see there are no grounds for devorce. That why when we are married it saids death do us part, not if my wife or husband cheat's on me.And if you are dating a married man or cheating on you spouse you are doing a terrible thing

Dear Lightcreated

You might want to take a look at this:

" If the unbeliever separates

1 Corinthians
Chapter 7

10
To the married, however, I give this instruction (not I, but the Lord): a wife should not separate from her husband
11
--and if she does separate she must either remain single or become reconciled to her husband--and a husband should not divorce his wife.
12
To the rest I say (not the Lord): if any brother has a wife who is an unbeliever, and she is willing to go on living with him, he should not divorce her;
13
and if any woman has a husband who is an unbeliever, and he is willing to go on living with her, she should not divorce her husband.
14
For the unbelieving husband is made holy through his wife, and the unbelieving wife is made holy through the brother. Otherwise your children would be unclean, whereas in fact they are holy.
15
If the unbeliever separates, however, let him separate. The brother or sister is not bound in such cases; God has called you to peace.
16
For how do you know, wife, whether you will save your husband; or how do you know, husband, whether you will save your wife?
17
Only, everyone should live as the Lord has assigned, just as God called each one. I give this order in all the churches. "

ALWAYS REMEMBER:



“ Believe “ in Greek is a verb and has three components
which are: hearing, accepting, and then " ACTING " upon that which you have accepted.

X Even though you can't see him, GOD is there!!! O ( click on the x and drag to the O )
( then see who is with you ) steven

 

[wonderwaleye]

Dear Wonderwoman

" Yes, if I do end up considering marrying him, I will not only make him get std tests, but polygraphs and listening devices on his person. "

If this is the case the best thing for both of you is to forget both your relationship and marriage.

The crack created can only grow. Forgiveness means exactly what it says.

IF YOU HAVE FAITH YOU WILL REMEMBER:

“ Believe “ in Greek is a verb and has three components which are: hearing, accepting, and then " ACTING " upon that which you have accepted.X Even though you can't see him, GOD is there!!! O ( click on the x and drag to the O ) ( then see who is with you ) steven

 

[HisdaughterJen]

Honestly, why would a child of God get involved in such a mess?
Did God lead you to this man? Is this God's best for you? Have you asked Him?
I would highly recommend seeking God earnestly on this issue with prayer and fasting.

 

[FenderElctrc]

Matthew 5:32:
But I say to you that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except sexual immorality causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery.

Matthew 19:1-10:
1 Now it came to pass, when Jesus had finished these sayings, that He departed from Galilee and came to the region of Judea beyond the Jordan. 2 And great multitudes followed Him, and He healed them there.
3 The Pharisees also came to Him, testing Him, and saying to Him, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for just any reason?”
4 And He answered and said to them, “Have you not read that He who madethem at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’ 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? 6 So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.”
7 They said to Him, “Why then did Moses command to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?”
8 He said to them, “Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. 9 And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced commits adultery.” 10 His disciples said to Him, “If such is the case of the man with his wife, it is better not to marry.”


She committed sexual immorality. He then was fine to divorce, however, I know it may sound bad and make you feel bad, but it's like what Jesus' disciples said in Matt. 19:10, “If such is the case of the man with his wife, it is better not to marry.” I'm sorry, but there's really no way around it. Don't take this offensively or in any bad way, it's just what Jesus said. Both my mom and dad have done this. I'm sorry. I'll pray for you.