Is the Pope the most powerful voice for Christianity today?

[Rick Otto]

You clearly have not been paying attention the last few days.

Indeed, bro. There is much I overlook.

 

[thereselittleflower]

Acts Of Apostles 20
28 Take heed to yourselves, and to the whole flock, wherein the Holy Ghost hath placed you bishops,to rule the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Hbr 13:7 ¶ Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of [their] conversation.​

"them which have the rule"

Lexicon Results for hēgeomai (Strong's G2233) Greek for G2233 ἡγέομαι Transliteration
hēgeomai
Pronunciation

hā-ge'-o-mī (Key)

Part of Speech
verb

Root Word (Etymology)

middle voice of a (presumed) strengthened form of G71

TDNT Reference
2:907,303
Vines
View Entry


Outline of Biblical Usage

1) to lead

a) to go before

b) to be a leader

1) to rule, command

2) to have authority over

3) a prince, of regal power, governor, viceroy, chief, leading as respects influence, controlling in counsel, overseers or leaders of the churches
4) used of any kind of leader, chief, commander

5) the leader in speech, chief, spokesman​

2) to consider, deem, account, think​

Now, who is it that protestants are commanded to obey as Paul commands us above?

Who in protestant churches/groups has such authority and power over the members of these congregations?

 

[thereselittleflower]

Here is what Paul says is needed to be a Bishop:

I Timothy 3:1-5
2A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; 3Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
4One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
5(For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)



The Pope, being the RC's top bishop, does not meet Paul's requirements. Heck, none of the bishops in the RC meet Paul's requirements.

Without getting into your misapplication of the passage above, let's cut to the chase. . .


Where are YOUR Bishops hentenza?

Where are YOUR rulers over you in the Church?

 

[sunlover1]

Without getting into your misapplication of the passage above, let's cut to the chase. . .

Why not answer his post?
Rather than divert to the red herring?

 

[thereselittleflower]

Act 20:28Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

poimainō
1) to feed, to tend a flock, keep sheep

a) to rule, govern

1) of rulers
2) to furnish pasture for food
3) to nourish
4) to cherish one's body, to serve the body
5) to supply the requisites for the soul's need​

http://cf.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G4165&t=kjv

king james version

Thank you cmo3

I have emphasized how this is speaking of rulers and ruling.

 

[thereselittleflower]

Why not answer his post?
Rather than divert to the red herring?

There was no question.

 

[thereselittleflower]

true. I guess he was not an overseer.

Then why did he oversee churches?

Why did he have the authority to command obedience from those he dealt with?

How did he have the power to excommunicate and command churches?

 

[thereselittleflower]

But how do you account for the fact that to be an overseer you have to:

2A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; 3Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
4One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
5(For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)

Who was this being spoken to?

Timothy, right? A Bishop right?

How did he become a Bishop?

Paul, a Bishop laid hands on him just as Bishops make other Bishops today in the Catholic Church.

Hmmmm . . Paul was a Bishop - but he didn't meet these "requirements" . .

I smell something fishy . . . like, this doesn't mean what you want it to mean . .


Let's look closer:


Let's look at the context - what was left out:

1Ti 3:1 ¶ This [is] a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.​

hmm . . this is talking about the qualifications one must have, at that time, in order to be CONSIDERED for this office.

That's the first thing.


The second thing is, tell me, how does our Pope not fulfill these requirements?

How does the Pope rule over his own house and has his children in subjection to all gravity? How is the pope the husband of one wife?

Where does it say he must be married or have children?

 

[thereselittleflower]

It has a bearing on everything.

I don't see how . . .

Noone denomination is the true Church. Actually non Christians can go to heaven too.

Especially not one that boasts a billion members.

How many members does the Popes Church boast having??

Matthew 7 : 13 “You can enter God’s Kingdom only through the narrow gate. The highway to hell is broad, and its gate is wide for the many who choose that way. 14 But the gateway to life is very narrow and the road is difficult, and only a few ever find it.

Romans 2 : 14(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, 15since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.) 16This will take place on the day when God will judge men's secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

how does this bear on anything we've been talking about?

 

[thereselittleflower]

I did a search on the phrase "true church" and could not find it in the Bible.

You won't find the word "Trinity" in the bible either. . . . . .

 

[thereselittleflower]

This is what Paul said about marriage.

1 Cor 7:1-2
1Now for the matters you wrote about: It is good for a man not to marry.[2But since there is so much immorality, each man should have his own wife, and each woman her own husband.

So, is Paul talking out of both sides of his mouth? First he teaches Timothy that bishops should be married and that men should have his own wife and then decides that marriage should be avoided.
Mmmmm...... schizophrenic indeed. or maybe just an interpretation that does not follow scripture.

Obviously you are bringing an assumption into your interpretation of the words of Paul to Timothy . . .

He never teaches that Bishops should be married, and that should be made even all the more clear by the other passage you quoted where he clearly says it is better not to marry . . .

As WA already said, he was limiting the number of wives a bishop could have - not mandate marraige for bishops.

Otherwise, Timothy could not be a bishop, which he was, for he was young and not married.


You have simply made a wrong assumption. . . . .

 

[Theophorus]

Is the Pope the most powerful voice for Christianity today?

(Read some of it. chiming in),

If the Pope is the 'the most powerful voice for Christianity today", then let's see him do it with his own jurisdiction. I like Pope Benedict, but I'm still watching to see if he can can carry his words through.


Until that happens, the most powerful voice in Christianity is that of the martyrs, 2nd the true monastics, and 3rd, Christians with true virtue.

 

[thereselittleflower]

(Read some of it. chiming in),

If the Pope is the 'the most powerful voice for Christianity today", then let's see him do it with his own jurisdiction. I like Pope Benedict, but I'm still watching to see if he can can carry his words through.


Until that happens, the most powerful voice in Christianity is that of the martyrs, 2nd the true monastics, and 3rd, Christians with true virtue.

I think it is pretty clear the OP meant LIVING voice . . ie someone still alive on earth . . . .

 

[Theophorus]

I think it is pretty clear the OP meant LIVING voice . . ie someone still alive on earth . . . .

I was thinking of recent martyrs in the past century as well as all that have gone before. I thought the RC did the same.

I was not thinking of something like Enron, or a political voice. Power has a different context in my twisted mind.

 

[thereselittleflower]

I was thinking of recent martyrs in the past century as well as all that have gone before. I thought the RC did the same.

I was not thinking of something like Enron, or a political voice. Power has a different context in my twisted mind.

As I said, I believe the OP was referring to those still in the flesh.

 

[Theophorus]

As I said, I believe the OP was referring to those still in the flesh.

The OP said voice today. But if you want to make it so, then I disagree. Prayer is the most important voice today.

Let's see how Pope Benedict's prayers work out for the sexually abused that he met with, since we are talking about in the flesh and all that....

 

[thereselittleflower]

The OP said voice today. But if you want to make it so, then I disagree. Prayer is the most important voice today.

Let's see how Pope Benedict's prayers work out for the sexually abused that he met with, since we are talking about in the flesh and all that....

Just more red herrings. . . . . I hope you enjoy your rabbit trail . . . . .

 

[Theophorus]

Just more red herrings. . . . . I hope you enjoy your rabbit trail . . . . .

Well you chose it in dismissing the martyrs, and so did CNN, Drudge, ABC,NBC, Yahoo news, Google news and MSNBC.

So chase it to it's end.



And I still like Pope Benedict, and even the dead ones such as Leo, and Celestine etc....

 

[ScottBot]

1 Corinthians 7
6 But I speak this by indulgence, not by commandment. 7 For I would that all men were even as myself: but every one hath his proper gift from God; one after this manner, and another after that. 8 But I say to the unmarried, and to the widows: It is good for them if they so continue, even as I. 9 But if they do not contain themselves, let them marry. For it is better to marry than to be burnt. 10 But to them that are married, not I but the Lord commandeth, that the wife depart not from her husband.
.....
31 And they that use this world, as if they used it not: for the fashion of this world passeth away. 32 But I would have you to be without solicitude. He that is without a wife, is solicitous for the things that belong to the Lord, how he may please God. 33 But he that is with a wife, is solicitous for the things of the world, how he may please his wife: and he is divided.

Oh my! Paul actually advocates for indulgences! Get me a torch.

 

[ScottBot]

The OP said voice today. But if you want to make it so, then I disagree. Prayer is the most important voice today.

Let's see how Pope Benedict's prayers work out for the sexually abused that he met with, since we are talking about in the flesh and all that....

Honestly, I think there is something to Benedicts call for those that were wounded by this scandal to offer forgiveness. Some of the hurtful diatribe that has come from the victims is hard to hear, especially those that still consider themselves "Christian". Christ forgave the people that nailed Him to a cross and made Him die on it. I know that what these priests did is vile and should be defrocked and serve a prison sentence for it. It doesn't mean that what they did is unforgivable. If Jesus can forgive His own killers, then He is very capable of forgiving a predatory priest. I am not exactly sure how bankrupting the Catholic Church in America is going to help the problem, or help those that were victimized find peace. Once the money that they receive as compensation for their damages is gone, then what? Jesus said not to store up treasure on earth, but to store up treasure in Heaven. We do that by forgiving the people who wound us.

This situation has gone so far over the top that if I want to teach the Catechism to high school kids, I have to get fingerprinted, have a police background investigation, and attend an all day class on this subject. For those of you who are so into basing everything on Scripture, do me a favor and look that one up, that to teach the Gospel, you have to be vetted by Caesar.