Is That Guy Really a Christian?!

[sculleywr]

Countless posts across the whole of this online forum often come within a hair's breadth of violating the cardinal rule of CF which forbids calling into question another member's Christianity. Understanding that is forbidden here, is there ever a time in the real world where it is Okay or even necessary to do so?

In the local church, is there ever an appropriate time to call someone's status as a member of the Body of Christ into question? Is it forbidden? Is it judging? Is it a loving act? Who gets to make this call, and under what circumstances?

What does the Bible have to say about this?

*This is not about the rules at CF. If you think so, you're missing the point.

One can say that the person is not a member of the Church Militant (that is, the Church here on earth), but there can be no judgment made of the salvation status of a person.

 

[bugkiller]

Well the net is fantasy land. Be anything you want to be.

bugkiller

 

[Widlast]

Countless posts across the whole of this online forum often come within a hair's breadth of violating the cardinal rule of CF which forbids calling into question another member's Christianity. Understanding that is forbidden here, is there ever a time in the real world where it is Okay or even necessary to do so?

In the local church, is there ever an appropriate time to call someone's status as a member of the Body of Christ into question? Is it forbidden? Is it judging? Is it a loving act? Who gets to make this call, and under what circumstances?

What does the Bible have to say about this?

*This is not about the rules at CF. If you think so, you're missing the point.

You are called upon to speak the truth. If this hurts peoples feelings, so be it. On this very forum we have a multitude of people who claim the title "Christian" and yet deny much of the creed.
Chop as you need and let the chips fall where they may.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

In order to get an answer to the post thread question, please read 1 John 2:3-6.


...

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Well the net is fantasy land. Be anything you want to be.

bugkiller

I've heard you can be anything you like in the "real" world, as well.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

One of thee most unholy things I've seen so-called christians do is behave like an army of ants in feeding off other Christians in a very cannabilistic way. I wonder where that trait comes from and why they think it's ok?

Much the same way we keep cattle, these ants keep aphids, which drink plants’ nutrients and excrete a sugary substance called honeydew that ants eat. Some species of herder ants follow the green creatures, devouring their droppings, while others milk their herds by tickling them with their antennae. The only difference is that the milk comes out of the cows’ udders while the honeydew flows out of the aphids’ anus — not that the ants seem to mind.​

 

[huk945]

Church discipline, which is rarely if ever practiced in most evangelical churches, is designed to correct a believer.

JJ: This observation is 100% correct. It took me a long time to learn that being a Christian and a complete idiot / moron were not mutually exclusive. And with a Church on every corner it's too easy to just go somewhere else & reek havoc in another congregation.There are so many completely weak pastors out there that Iv'e seen people get away w/really crazy stuff because some one would leave and take there checkbook with them. Iv'e been asked on more than 1 occasion to "Counsel" someone on their behavior. I will only do it w/men (no women) and outside the building. But that's correction not Salvation. Sometimes I think this stuff can get pretty Grey

 

[hedrick]

Did Paul do that with the Galatian church?

Paul opposed people he thought were wrong. He didn't propose to remove them from the Church.

Where groups have doctrinal standards, I think it's OK to enforce them, but I'm not sure you'll find a NT example. You'll find strong language against people who are wrong, but the only actual church discipline I recall is for actions.

 

[SkyWriting]

What does the Bible have to say about this?

Treat others, as you would have them treat you.

If this is followed, then one is following Christ and you might see
the results. Works follows faith.

 

[NothingIsImpossible]

This is why I like my church. Our pastor doesn't give lip service and shout "Do not judge!". He teaches the truth of the bible. I mean yes does teach do not judge, but he teaches how that works and what it means. But he also teachers reproof and correction. He even says hes not beyond reproof or correction either. Most other churchs I have been to don't really teach that because it might "offend" christians to know that they can be corrected/reproofed.

 

[AlexDTX]

Countless posts across the whole of this online forum often come within a hair's breadth of violating the cardinal rule of CF which forbids calling into question another member's Christianity. Understanding that is forbidden here, is there ever a time in the real world where it is Okay or even necessary to do so?

In the local church, is there ever an appropriate time to call someone's status as a member of the Body of Christ into question? Is it forbidden? Is it judging? Is it a loving act? Who gets to make this call, and under what circumstances?

What does the Bible have to say about this?

*This is not about the rules at CF. If you think so, you're missing the point.

Absolutely! Jesus warned us about wolves in sheep's clothing. He said, by their fruit you will know them. The General Epistles are laced with using discernment and making judgments on false prophets, those whose god is their bellies, and sensual men fill with lusts seeking to seduce silly women.

I understand the reason for CF prohibition to maintain civility in the forum, but if people think we don't have wolves in this forum they are naive.

Satanists join local congregations so they can disrupt and sows seeds of discord among the brethren. We are warned that bad company corrupts good morals.

To answer the last part of your inquiry, "who gets to make this call and under what circumstances", there is no answer that fits all occasions. But I would say anyone who is prompted by the Holy Spirit to do so.

 

[JESUS=G.O.A.T]

Countless posts across the whole of this online forum often come within a hair's breadth of violating the cardinal rule of CF which forbids calling into question another member's Christianity. Understanding that is forbidden here, is there ever a time in the real world where it is Okay or even necessary to do so?

In the local church, is there ever an appropriate time to call someone's status as a member of the Body of Christ into question? Is it forbidden? Is it judging? Is it a loving act? Who gets to make this call, and under what circumstances?

What does the Bible have to say about this?

*This is not about the rules at CF. If you think so, you're missing the point.

CF which forbids calling into question another member's Christianity. Understanding that is forbidden here, is there ever a time in the real world where it is Okay or even necessary to do so?


My response: The definition of Christian isn't just believer but Christ like, people tend to forget this so in the real world it's ok to help people and show them what it takes to be a Christian. The bible even says preach the gospel to every living creature. However it's best to get to know the individual first and find the right time to discuss this with the individual. For example a classroom might not be the best location.



In the local church, is there ever an appropriate time to call someone's status as a member of the Body of Christ into question? Is it forbidden? Is it judging? Is it a loving act? Who gets to make this call, and under what circumstances?


My Response: Now this question here is actually very straight forward while the first one can be situational. In your local body it's obvious that it's ok to question some ones spiritual status, in fact it's vital that the leaders are always praying and watching the flock to see if everyone is on track, or to be aware of those who aren't and need help. To know who's saved and who's not saved. The bible also says that he that refuseth instruction despiseth his own soul but he that heareth reproof gaineth understanding.

The bible also says that Christianity comes witih correction. There's a difference between judgjing someone and saying they are going to hell vs. teaching them how they can be saved or if they are saved what they need to work on or turn away from.

Reproof is something done with love, it's kind of like a parent and kid relationship thing. Besides God considers us to be his children and children need to be taught.

 

[brightlights]

In the local church, is there ever an appropriate time to call someone's status as a member of the Body of Christ into question?

"Member of the body of Christ" is a complicated term. If you mean "member of a local, visible church" then this can certainly be called into question and the answer easily attained. People either are or not members of local churches.

But if you mean "truly saved" or "elected unto salvation" then I do not think we can make definitive judgements about this. We simply do not know whether or not someone is truly saved.

All we can know is whether or not they profess faith in Christ, whether this profession is biblically accurate, and whether this profession is credible. On these grounds we can allow people into the (local) church and we can kick them out of the (local) church. But whether or not they are elect of God we cannot determine.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Absolutely! Jesus warned us about wolves in sheep's clothing. He said, by their fruit you will know them. The General Epistles are laced with using discernment and making judgments on false prophets, those whose god is their bellies, and sensual men fill with lusts seeking to seduce silly women.

I understand the reason for CF prohibition to maintain civility in the forum, but if people think we don't have wolves in this forum they are naive.

Satanists join local congregations so they can disrupt and sows seeds of discord among the brethren. We are warned that bad company corrupts good morals.

To answer the last part of your inquiry, "who gets to make this call and under what circumstances", there is no answer that fits all occasions. But I would say anyone who is prompted by the Holy Spirit to do so.

Rather than overt Satanists, I think that the wolves are the judaizers (and the modern-day versions)

 

[SayitStraight]

Countless posts across the whole of this online forum often come within a hair's breadth of violating the cardinal rule of CF which forbids calling into question another member's Christianity. Understanding that is forbidden here, is there ever a time in the real world where it is Okay or even necessary to do so?

In the local church, is there ever an appropriate time to call someone's status as a member of the Body of Christ into question? Is it forbidden? Is it judging? Is it a loving act? Who gets to make this call, and under what circumstances?

What does the Bible have to say about this?

*This is not about the rules at CF. If you think so, you're missing the point.

the cardinal rule of CF which forbids calling into question another member's Christianity- is NOT nor does it EVER override the rule of the word of GOD . and where it is used to do so those in charge will be held accountable for it . because it is written that we will all give account for EVERY word .

is there ever a time in the real world where it is Okay or even necessary to do so? Very often indeed . it would not be love to allow a person to continue unchallenged in their error when their error is obvious . if it were a crime to do so then it would become a crime to preach the Gospel of repentance .

 

[SayitStraight]

John 6:37
Everything that the Father gives me will come to me, and anyone who comes to me I will never drive away;

otherwise we might all be in trouble! and I don't mean with CF!

nothing worse then out of context cherry picked pieces of text used to misrepresent the whole .

 

[RDKirk]

To be excommunicated is to treat a person as a non-believer, no?

In other words, until this person corrects their behavior, we will treat them as a non-Christian.

Not quite. We should be willing to eat with non-believers in order to present the gospel to them. But the person whose actions force excommunication already knows the gospel. He's not operating out of spiritual ignorance.

I wrote to you in a letter not to associate with sexually immoral people. I did not mean the immoral people of this world or the greedy and swindlers or idolaters; otherwise you would have to leave the world.

But now I am writing you not to associate with anyone who claims to be a believer who is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or verbally abusive, a drunkard or a swindler. Do not even eat with such a person.

For what business is it of mine to judge outsiders? Don’t you judge those who are inside? But God judges outsiders. Put away the evil person from among yourselves. -- 2 Corinthians 5

Notice that this still does not judge his status of salvation.

 

[masmpg]

I could not disagree more. The physical representation of being outside of the church is without a doubt of the very real cutting off from Christ.

We are not instructed to keep the sinner within our ranks and "counsel" him. We are told to cut him off, and that is in itself a judgement from God, implemented by the church.

I agree that the sinner must be cut off from the congregation, BUT there is a chain of command to follow before this happens. Matthew 18 must be carried out before even considering cutting anybody off from the congregation. Some people might be sinning and not even knowing it is a sin. We are to go to people like this ALONE, not tell it to everyone first then go to the person, which is the norm in most rumor mills of today. If the person does not listen to the one reproving, or admonishing them, THEN and only then are we to take two or three and even after that we take it to the church, and if they refuse to hear the church then we are to disfellowship, or excommunicate them.

 

[RDKirk]

I agree that the sinner must be cut off from the congregation, BUT there is a chain of command to follow before this happens. Matthew 18 must be carried out before even considering cutting anybody off from the congregation. Some people might be sinning and not even knowing it is a sin. We are to go to people like this ALONE, not tell it to everyone first then go to the person, which is the norm in most rumor mills of today. If the person does not listen to the one reproving, or admonishing them, THEN and only then are we to take two or three and even after that we take it to the church, and if they refuse to hear the church then we are to disfellowship, or excommunicate them.

With regard to that process, I'd point out that the "two or three witnesses" are supposed to be witnesses to the sin, which is what "witness" means in scripture, as you find the definition in Leviticus--not just a couple of people to watch the accusation.

At that point--with three or four people (including the offended person) able to testify to the sin, the Body of Christ is already involved ("where two or three are gathered in my name"), and further action is warranted.

But even then, they cannot say that the person's name is not in the Book of Life.

 

[Yahu_]

Hi JJ, here's one thing the Bible says:

"He who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins" ~James 5:20
​

So (turning one of your questions around), if we do not make a "judgment" call (cf John 7:24) and we do not choose to say something to someone who 1) "claims" to be a Christian but 2) never acts like one (cf James 2:17), how could such a thing possibly be considered a "loving act" (IOW, if we believe that the person "claiming" to be a Christian may not saved and on their way to Hell)

Is that why people justify being a meddlesome busybody in the matters of other men's lives?

1Pe 4:15 But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men’s matters.

What happens when there is a difference of opinion of what constitutes sin? This situation had major consequences in my life. My own brother sabotaged my marriage plans to save me from sin (in his opinion). He is no longer in my life as a result.

Yah save me from so-called Christians that are trying to save me from being in sin in their opinion!