Is or can abortions constitute selfishness in some cases?

[Lik3]

I ask this because I was not sure on the Baptist Church's position on abortion. I understand that there are strong opinions on the subject, but would you or do you consider abortion a selfish act? I get that one may consider it in some cases, but on a personal note, I would keep my child or children. I have my own beliefs on abortion which may contradict yours as I don't believe women should abort their children, even in cases of rape, incest, or to save the mother's life. While it may seem to be an extreme position to some of you, let me explain. I don't think aborting a baby is the answer because even though rape and incest are egregious, vile, and horrible personal violations (forgive me if you agree with how I define rape and incest), the baby or babies are innocent.

I feel that even though women have a right to choose as far as individuals go, once she is pregnant, she is not to think of her own self, but her and the baby's or babies', with them first. I am only thinking of my own views, though I believe that vile people such as rapists and those who commit incest should get their just sentences (which doesn't happen in many cases). There are times when the justice system sucks (that goes without saying) , so the issue of abortion is truly a matter of justice as well as the lives of the mother and the unborn. Are the views abortion being selfish too strong or is there only a grain of truth to it? Is having an abortion or rather is it a selfish act since it is about ending the life of an unborn child? Are all abortions a selfish act, at least to you, or at least in some cases? I am interested in reading your answers.

On a serious note:
I would rather that the opinions and answers be civil as controversial subjects such as abortion can get heated to say the least. In other words, no racism, sexism, hurtful language, or name calling. I know that this is a Christian forum, but still, let us be civil, yet I am not a moderator, so it isn't my place to express this.

 

[RC1970]

Is or can abortions constitute selfishness in some cases?

In ALL cases.

 

[JESUS=G.O.A.T]

I ask this because I was not sure on the Baptist Church's position on abortion. I understand that there are strong opinions on the subject, but would you or do you consider abortion a selfish act? I get that one may consider it in some cases, but on a personal note, I would keep my child or children. I have my own beliefs on abortion which may contradict yours as I don't believe women should abort their children, even in cases of rape, incest, or to save the mother's life. While it may seem to be an extreme position to some of you, let me explain. I don't think aborting a baby is the answer because even though rape and incest are egregious, vile, and horrible personal violations (forgive me if you agree with how I define rape and incest), the baby or babies are innocent.

I feel that even though women have a right to choose as far as individuals go, once she is pregnant, she is not to think of her own self, but her and the baby's or babies', with them first. I am only thinking of my own views, though I believe that vile people such as rapists and those who commit incest should get their just sentences (which doesn't happen in many cases). There are times when the justice system sucks (that goes without saying) , so the issue of abortion is truly a matter of justice as well as the lives of the mother and the unborn. Are the views abortion being selfish too strong or is there only a grain of truth to it? Is having an abortion or rather is it a selfish act since it is about ending the life of an unborn child? Are all abortions a selfish act, at least to you, or at least in some cases? I am interested in reading your answers.

On a serious note:
I would rather that the opinions and answers be civil as controversial subjects such as abortion can get heated to say the least. In other words, no racism, sexism, hurtful language, or name calling. I know that this is a Christian forum, but still, let us be civil, yet I am not a moderator, so it isn't my place to express this.

First of all I would make this stance.... it may bring a lot of heat on myself but i'm just being honest. This is civil though don't worry.

Genesis 9:7

“And you, be ye fruitful, and multiply; bring forth abundantly in the earth, and multiply therein.”

Jeremiah 1:5King James Version (KJV)
5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

Isaiah 44:2 - Thus saith the LORD that made thee, and formed thee from the womb, [which] will help thee; Fear not, O Jacob, my servant; and thou, Jesurun, whom I have chosen.



Conclusion: I think it should be made clear... that abortion isn't biblical, now sure part of that is because abortion wasn't a thing back then. But also God is the one who forms us and makes us. Abortion is a device of the devil utilized to kill possible prophets and preachers and ministers and such before they are even born.



Are the views abortion being selfish too strong or is there only a grain of truth to it?

My Response: It depends on the reason it's committed.

1. Some commit abortion because of money issues

2. some cause teenagers and not ready


3. Some becuase of rape/incest/the baby is set to die anyway/


4. Some go with abortion becuase they can't live with the guilt of giving up their child to an adoption home so they would rather not have the child be born at all.

5. Some simply don't contemplate the choice long enough or consider adoption homes.


6. They are athiest... so there's no like... God made us or anything, it's just life and death. If i was a non theist and a girl abortion wouldn't be a hard choice to make for myself either if I was in a tough situation.

7. Mom could die giving birth



There are probably more reasons but these are some of the most popular ones, and most of them and arguably all of them are selfish. The 3rd one seems to be the only one that even those against abortion for whatever reason tend to be ok with in some cases. But yeah to me overwhelmly it's a selfish act. It seems right to the flesh though but.

Proverbs 14:12King James Version (KJV)
12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

 

[TurtleAnne]

I think it's one of those cases where Satan plays one of his trickiest cards in deceiving people, the classic "lesser of two evils" card.

On one hand, abortion is murder, in addition to rejecting God's plans, not trusting in God's will in general, and also taking into consideration that there are multiple verses in the Bible that let us in the fact that God knew each of us, as souls, before we were given bodies (so yes, it is murder).

But at the same time, many people are greedy and selfish in another way, in which they do not want to be 'burdened' with caring for the needy or downtrodden in society, which leaves many people who experience an unplanned (of their own plans) pregnancy absolutely stricken with anxiety, i.e. how will they afford all the care the child needs, how will they finish school, how will they keep their career and thus pay the bills, etc.

This trickery is set up pretty strongly in many nations' politics, as well. Consider in the U.S., how on the Left you will hear many say in essence, "We promote abortion, and we promote taxation to help the poor," (and yet much of the tax money goes towards corruption, so that those on the Left who want to be charitable have their charity wasted), and on the Right you will hear many say in essence, "We are against abortion, but we do not want our money to go towards any 'baby's mamas'," (undertones of racism and greed at play in many cases).

We seldom find those who are both against abortion, and also genuinely in favor (displayed through their own charitable actions) of caring for children who were born of unexpected (by humans) pregnancy. And there is certainly no establishment political party to represent them, either.

So in my perception, is that we are both called upon to be against murder, including abortion, but we are also called upon to be generous and compassionate, as well, as Jesus taught. This is how society would balance itself on this matter, ideally. Imagine if it went even further, and more people only had sex with a spouse, and if the husband loved his wife as Jesus loved the church (and therefore did not abandon her, but cared for her and their shared children), and then in turn more wives trusted and felt comfortable with their husbands and stayed with them, and so on and so forth.

Instead we have a society where most people are way off the track spiritually, and most people prefer to play the role of accuser and condemn each other, OR to promote rampant sin, OR both (hypocrites). Needless to say it is a mess, and none of us can fix society. There will be no perfect society until Jesus returns, and it will only continue to get much worse over time, until then.

But again, we can each make the personal choice to reject all forms of evil as best we can, to refuse to choose the "lesser of evils" and instead embrace all of His teachings as best we can, which in the case of abortion, means rejecting abortion, but hating the sin and not the sinner, and being charitable so that when someone does choose to keep their unexpected child rather than choosing abortion, their child is lovingly embraced by the community.

 

[Archie the Preacher]

I am generally against abortion. My time in the Southern Baptist denomination indicates that group is anti-abortion as well.

In large measure, one could deem all abortions to be motivated by selfishness. Even in the case of a woman possibly or assuredly dying by having the child; the idea of the woman's life being more important to the woman than the baby's could be deemed selfish. A woman with children already who is torn between the unborn child's life and the care and nurture of her already born children is another matter, and a matter I prefer not to adjudicate.

Without question, having unprotected sex, then having an abortion to avoid the cost, work and responsibility of being a mother is selfish.

Somewhere between is the deciding line.

As said, I am anti-abortion. I understand an unborn child is a life. Having said that, I do not find it Christian to kick someone already down. God forgives all sinners who repent and ask forgiveness. I must follow my Lord.

 

[NothingIsImpossible]

Same with the others. Any case of abortion makes that person selfish. Even in the case where you knew you would die giving birth, you still should choose the baby over yourself.

 

[Kiterius]

Murder is always selfish. There is no exception.

 

[Ana the Ist]

I ask this because I was not sure on the Baptist Church's position on abortion. I understand that there are strong opinions on the subject, but would you or do you consider abortion a selfish act? I get that one may consider it in some cases, but on a personal note, I would keep my child or children. I have my own beliefs on abortion which may contradict yours as I don't believe women should abort their children, even in cases of rape, incest, or to save the mother's life. While it may seem to be an extreme position to some of you, let me explain. I don't think aborting a baby is the answer because even though rape and incest are egregious, vile, and horrible personal violations (forgive me if you agree with how I define rape and incest), the baby or babies are innocent.

I feel that even though women have a right to choose as far as individuals go, once she is pregnant, she is not to think of her own self, but her and the baby's or babies', with them first. I am only thinking of my own views, though I believe that vile people such as rapists and those who commit incest should get their just sentences (which doesn't happen in many cases). There are times when the justice system sucks (that goes without saying) , so the issue of abortion is truly a matter of justice as well as the lives of the mother and the unborn. Are the views abortion being selfish too strong or is there only a grain of truth to it? Is having an abortion or rather is it a selfish act since it is about ending the life of an unborn child? Are all abortions a selfish act, at least to you, or at least in some cases? I am interested in reading your answers.

On a serious note:
I would rather that the opinions and answers be civil as controversial subjects such as abortion can get heated to say the least. In other words, no racism, sexism, hurtful language, or name calling. I know that this is a Christian forum, but still, let us be civil, yet I am not a moderator, so it isn't my place to express this.

Sure...if you consider it selfish to do something with your own benefits in mind.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Abortion can be a selfish act, bit it is in no way always a selfish act. And for those that think the Bible only argues on one side, they simply do not understand the Bible. Their personal prejudices are getting in the way. Unfortunately the Bible is not pro-choice either since the verse dealing with this also tend to treat women as property.

 

[squirrel123]

I don't believe women should abort their children... or to save the mother's life.

Do you believe it is preferable to give birth to an orphan, and to also orphan any older siblings in the process?

What if the woman is a single mother, is it preferable to have the new baby, as well as his/her older siblings go into foster care, with all the well-known issues in that system, rather to have an early abortion, long before the fetus' brain has developed far enough to have any consciousness, or ability to feel pain?

Is an unborn fetus' life really more important that the life of a grown woman, who may even have others who depend on her?

 

[CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN]

I don't believe women should abort their children, even in cases of rape, incest, or to save the mother's life.

Are you saying a woman should just die, with the baby. Instead of them taking the baby out. Like if the baby is stuck in the fallopian tube. Or the women's about to die . These are sadly considered abortions. I don't think death is worth not choosing to get the baby out. Now if the baby had a chance to live, which one doesn't have chance to live in the fallopian tube. The baby gets big enough the fallopian tube will burst. Baby will defiantly die. So will mother. The same when a mothers life is on the line. I choose life over no life. Its not selfish at all to me. Just common since.

 

[jayem]

In some cases an elective abortion may be motivated by self-serving reasons. But no one should expect that all women must conform to his personal and idiosyncratic standards of virtue. I'm more concerned with legality than ethics. I don't believe that the condition of being pregnant negates a woman's bodily autonomy from fertilization onward. A fetus is genetically distinct individual, but it's not legally a person. And--at least up a point--a pregnant woman must retain the right to decide how her uterus, and other organ systems will be used. Laws that criminalize abortion from fertilization onward are just too authoritarian. They give way too much power to the state.

 

[Received]

I think the more interesting question is whether having a child can be selfish. And I think that in most cases it does involve some degree of selfishness; the parents want to have a child to fulfill their wants, without which they wouldn't have the intention of getting a child, e.g., have a child for a good reason.

So often children are simply cognitive blank slates onto which the values and beliefs (i.e., culture) of the parents are written.

But it isn't intrinsically selfish to have children, just as I'd argue it isn't intrinsically selfish to have an abortion (e.g., a reasonably good case can be made that it's worse to exist in a state of suffering -- socioeconomic and especially when it comes to the child's chance of having a debilitating disease -- than to not exist at all). Having children is God's sort of way of teaching us to learn how to move beyond ourselves by caring for someone else. But what often happens is the child just becomes another possession of the parents, and possessions are extensions of the self.

 

[JohannaSK]

Are you saying a woman should just die, with the baby. Instead of them taking the baby out. Like if the baby is stuck in the fallopian tube. Or the women's about to die . These are sadly considered abortions. I don't think death is worth not choosing to get the baby out. Now if the baby had a chance to live, which one doesn't have chance to live in the fallopian tube. The baby gets big enough the fallopian tube will burst. Baby will defiantly die. So will mother. The same when a mothers life is on the line. I choose life over no life. Its not selfish at all to me. Just common since.

I'm very interested in the pro-life (the stance I hold) ethics concerning ectopic pregnancy. It's very rarely discussed, but we have to face these kind of questions.

Ectopic pregnancy happens when the fetus attaches itself outside of the uterus, most often in fallopian tube. It's also called tubal pregnancy. It's a life-threatening condition for the mother. With very rare exceptions the fetus is unable to survive (but there is a theoretical chance!).

So if the situation is the following: if the pregnancy is not terminated, the mother will die and the fetus will die, but if the pregnancy is terminated, the mother's life will be saved and the fetus will die.

Would you guys be pro-life in this situation as well? Because I'm not sure I would.

 

[jayem]

I'm very interested in the pro-life (the stance I hold) ethics concerning ectopic pregnancy. It's very rarely discussed, but we have to face these kind of questions.

Ectopic pregnancy happens when the fetus attaches itself outside of the uterus, most often in fallopian tube. It's also called tubal pregnancy. It's a life-threatening condition for the mother. With very rare exceptions the fetus is unable to survive (but there is a theoretical chance!).

So if the situation is the following: if the pregnancy is not terminated, the mother will die and the fetus will die, but if the pregnancy is terminated, the mother's life will be saved and the fetus will die.

Would you guys be pro-life in this situation as well? Because I'm not sure I would.

Ectopic pregnancy should be a no-brainer. The idea that it would better for a woman to die than to terminate a virtually hopeless life-threatening pregnancy is morally perverse. Not to mention, it spits in the face of common sense.

 

[JohannaSK]

Ectopic pregnancy should be a no-brainer. The idea that it would better for a woman to die than to terminate a virtually hopeless life-threatening pregnancy is morally perverse. Not to mention, it spits in the face of common sense.

I agree: in some situations (like ectopic pregnancy) abortion is the better choice.

So are you generally pro-life?

 

[Lik3]

Are you saying a woman should just die, with the baby. Instead of them taking the baby out. Like if the baby is stuck in the fallopian tube. Or the women's about to die . These are sadly considered abortions. I don't think death is worth not choosing to get the baby out. Now if the baby had a chance to live, which one doesn't have chance to live in the fallopian tube. The baby gets big enough the fallopian tube will burst. Baby will defiantly die. So will mother. The same when a mothers life is on the line. I choose life over no life. Its not selfish at all to me. Just common since.

My question is about some women doing so for their selfish reasons. I wonder if there are other ways a doctor can be able to save both lives in some cases.

 

[jayem]

I agree: in some situations (like ectopic pregnancy) abortion is the better choice.

So are you generally pro-life?

I'm pro-life in the sense that I think terminating a pregnancy for less than rape, incest, or medical reasons is morally undesirable. But I'm pro-choice in the sense that I think criminalizing a private medical decision between a woman and her doctor is a worse evil.

 

[Archie the Preacher]

I'm very interested in the pro-life (the stance I hold) ethics concerning ectopic pregnancy. It's very rarely discussed, but we have to face these kind of questions.

That sort of thing (and similar situations) are the exception and not the general case.

Personally, I would favor laws allowing the needed medical treatment to save the life of the mother. However, it would have to be justified and appropriately documented. "To save the mother's life" alone without qualification, check and balances, so to speak, is too broad and too easily abused by fraud.

To allow all abortions at all times for anyone who asks, paid for at tax payers expense on the basis of those conditions such as you mention is absurd.

Would you guys be pro-life in this situation as well?

I am pro-life in all cases at all times. I am aware there are conditions which cause exceptions to making sure everyone lives - such as the one in question. I try not to decide too superficially or broadly, ignoring the details.

 

[randomvim]

Are you saying a woman should just die, with the baby. Instead of them taking the baby out. Like if the baby is stuck in the fallopian tube. Or the women's about to die . These are sadly considered abortions. I don't think death is worth not choosing to get the baby out. Now if the baby had a chance to live, which one doesn't have chance to live in the fallopian tube. The baby gets big enough the fallopian tube will burst. Baby will defiantly die. So will mother. The same when a mothers life is on the line. I choose life over no life. Its not selfish at all to me. Just common since.

1. imprtant to note induced abortion vs. abortion

2. also important to note difference between allowing a person to die during a procedure and outright killing that person. there is a moral difference in this as well.