Is messianic Judaism a religion founded on scripture or not?

[ChavaK]

The only non-jewish person who wrote two books in scripture was doctor Luke who after believing in Yahshua became a convert to Judaism.

How could he convert? His belief would preclude the possibility of conversion to Judaism. That is what I don't understand.

 

[ChavaK]

So you're a Kararite.

Sounds like it.....although his post is confusing because my understanding
is that Messianics that are Jews do not follow the Talmud either.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

"Nazarene sect"

Acts 24:5 “We have found this man to be a troublemaker, stirring up riots among the Jews all over the world. He is a ringleader of the Nazarene sect"
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the "Way" sect

Acts 24:14 However, I admit that I worship the God of our ancestors as a follower of the Way, which they call a sect. I believe everything that is in accordance with the Law and that is written in the Prophets,
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living as a Pharisee "sect"

Acts 26:5 They have known me for a long time and can testify, if they are willing, that I conformed to the strictest sect of our religion, living as a Pharisee.
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__________________
"

Paul would've been cool with associating the Nazarene sect with the Christian one...and for scriptures:

Acts 11:26
and when he found him, he brought him to Antioch. So for a whole year Barnabas and Saul met with the church and taught great numbers of people. The disciples were called Christians first at Antioch.
Acts 11:25-27

Acts 26:27-29 / Acts 26
27 King Agrippa, do you believe the prophets? I know you do.”

28 Then Agrippa said to Paul, “Do you think that in such a short time you can persuade me to be a Christian?”

29 Paul replied, “Short time or long—I pray to God that not only you but all who are listening to me today may become what I am, except for these chains.”

​

Peter would've been good as well:

1 Peter 4:15-17 / 1 Peter 4
15 If you suffer, it should not be as a murderer or thief or any other kind of criminal, or even as a meddler. 16 However, if you suffer as a Christian, do not be ashamed, but praise God that you bear that name. 17 For it is time for judgment to begin with God’s household; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who do not obey the gospel of God?
​

 

[yedida]

What do you mean? I myself am a Jew

And you use a term that is a non-word in both ancient and modern Hebrew. That's a good one.

 

[yedida]

Sounds like it.....although his post is confusing because my understanding
is that Messianics that are Jews do not follow the Talmud either.

My understanding is that some definitely do follow Talmud, many don't.

 

[yedida]

How could he convert? His belief would preclude the possibility of conversion to Judaism. That is what I don't understand.

Before the split between Jews and gentiles, before 70AD especially in Jerusalem, that was what some of the Jews that were following Yeshua and His disciples thought. The group was known as the Way and thought of as just a sect among Judaism. It was commonly thought that these gentile people should go through formal conversion to become believers in the Way.

 

[anisavta]

Didn't modern Judaism (the religion people convert to) have it's beginning with Jochanan Ben Zakai? And that was after 70BCE.
Just curious Haywood - blood Jew or spiritual Jew?

 

[A_Pioneer]

In Matthew 2 the scripture says He dwelt in Nazareth so that the scripture might be fulfilled, He shall be called a Nazarene.

I know if you lived in the town of Nazareth you are called a Nazarene, however that is not what was implied in Matthew 2.

The prophesy spoken of is not literally found in the "old testament", if you wish you can go search for it and you'll never find it. However, Isaiah 11:1 speaks about the branch that will sprout from rod. The Hebrew word for branch is Natser. This word shares the same root word with Natsari/Nazarene. Only a pun in hebraic thought.

A Jew knows that one produces after its own kind, thus Yahshua being that branch/Natser/Natsari/Nazarene would logically produce such a group. Thus those who believed in Yahshua were known as those from the Nazarene sect.

As stated before, the words were put in HIS mouth! The precepts of men.
He did quote Isaiah, teaching as doctrine the precepts of men.
If he ever called himself a Nazarene, show me!

 

[pat34lee]

How could he convert? His belief would preclude the possibility of conversion to Judaism. That is what I don't understand.

Belief in a messiah only became a problem with Jews after Yahshua's time, and only when it concerns him. Rabbi Akiva supported bar Kosiba as messiah and renamed him bar Kokhba. Some today still revere the rabbi who passed away a few years ago as messiah.

 

[yedida]

Belief in a messiah only became a problem with Jews after Yahshua's time, and only when it concerns him. Rabbi Akiva supported bar Kosiba as messiah and renamed him bar Kokhba. Some today still revere the rabbi who passed away a few years ago as messiah.

Schneerson? Some think he may have been a closet believer.

 

[pat34lee]

Shalom
Thanks for your reply. I think you misunderstood my question.
We first need to determine what the original faith of the apostles were.
Were they Christians or what?

The original apostles were all Jews, including Matthew. They were never anything else, and did not become anything else.

 

[ChavaK]

Rabbi Akiva supported bar Kosiba as messiah and renamed him bar Kokhba.

Oh sure, there have been many false messiahs over the lifetime of Judaism.

Some today still revere the rabbi who passed away a few years ago as messiah.

That would be The Rebbe, Menachem Schneerson. Only some Lubavitchers
believe he was the moshiach, the Rebbe never promoted himself as such
and this belief is not found outside of Lubavitch.

 

[ChavaK]

Schneerson? Some think he may have been a closet believer.

Who believes that? Where did they come up with this idea?

 

[ChavaK]

My understanding is that some definitely do follow Talmud, many don't.

But I don't think it is their primary source of halachah.

 

[yedida]

But I don't think it is their primary source of halachah.

I would agree that it probably isn't, but they still follow.

 

[xDenax]

Schneerson? Some think he may have been a closet believer.

Some people believe a lot of things but they are wrong.

 

[yedida]

Some people believe a lot of things but they are wrong.

Perhaps, I spoke too soon, and this is not the one I was thinking of. The one I was thinking about left a coded message as to who the Messiah is. Was this not Schneerson? If it wasn't, I apologize.

 

[SGM4HIM]

Before the split between Jews and gentiles, before 70AD especially in Jerusalem, that was what some of the Jews that were following Yeshua and His disciples thought. The group was known as the Way and thought of as just a sect among Judaism. It was commonly thought that these gentile people should go through formal conversion to become believers in the Way.

Yedida,
I came in late this p.m., but what texts support formal gentile conversion?

 

[ChavaK]

Perhaps, I spoke too soon, and this is not the one I was thinking of. The one I was thinking about left a coded message as to who the Messiah is. Was this not Schneerson? If it wasn't, I apologize.

Oh, that happened a few years ago....don't remember the rav's name
but it was evident he wasn't a "secret" believer

 

[yedida]

Yedida,
I came in late this p.m., but what texts support formal gentile conversion?[/quot]

I'm not sure I understand your question. The places in Acts where the Jews were wanting the gentiles to get circumcised. In Paul's letters where he teaches against the need for circumcision to believe.