IS it time to drop the term Charismatic ??

[mrhappy3]

Lets face it.

How many of the Gifts of the Spirit do we ever get to see ?

Most of the time we may get the odd "falling" of the Spirit and we get a little buzz from that.

But how are any of the 9 gifts mentioned in 1st Corinthians (and others re: Romans) actually validated ?

How can we distinguish that they are anything more than natural efforts ?

Haven't seen many casting out of devils ? Speaking in tongues without someone being coerced ?

All the real "stuff" seems to come from 3rd hand reporting, or way off in Africa somewhere.

Isn't it time we just called ourselves glorified baptists

 

[Andry]

I have a colleague who calls himself, partially facetiously, "bapticostal" or "pentabaptist".

"Glorifed Baptists" wouldn't work as they, among other things, believe in tithing, and not all charismatics believe that.

 

[Elijah2]

Lets face it.

How many of the Gifts of the Spirit do we ever get to see ?

Most of the time we may get the odd "falling" of the Spirit and we get a little buzz from that.

But how are any of the 9 gifts mentioned in 1st Corinthians (and others re: Romans) actually validated ?

How can we distinguish that they are anything more than natural efforts ?

Haven't seen many casting out of devils ? Speaking in tongues without someone being coerced ?

All the real "stuff" seems to come from 3rd hand reporting, or way off in Africa somewhere.

Isn't it time we just called ourselves glorified baptists

Hey mate, I like the word "Disciples", and "Servants" of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Sad as it is, in some churches I have seen the coercing of Spiritual Gifts.

The only Spiritual Gifts I've experienced is when I am by myself and HE puts another Christian across my path, and I encounter the enemy manifestating in that Christian. And other times when others have been praying for another's healing, and I've passed on a word of knowledge that helped in a break-through.

Wow, I saw enough in Vietnam, and in those days I had no idea what I was experiencing then, but I now know now what was happening.

I know that each aircraft arriving and leaving airfields in Vietna were being cursed by Buddhist monks, and the same curses is what many Vietnam veterans suffer from still.

One day, I was at a morning tea meeting at an organisation that I was working as a volunteer . And as I sat there I received this great urgency to pray for one of the member's daughter who was involved in satanism. I had no idea what was happening, but the urgency became extremely overwhelming, in fact I began feel emotional, and left the meeting immediately, and climbed into my car, and then next minute I was blurting out in spirtual tongues, and prayed for minutes. When I stopped, I was exhausted, but felt at peace. I spoke to the girls parent if they had heard from their daughter and if she was in danger. I didn't share to them what I had happened, but I discerned that there was something going on in the heavenlies for her.

Blessings.

 

[mrhappy3]

Hey mate, I like the word "Disciples", and "Servants" of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Sad as it is, in some churches I have seen the coercing of Spiritual Gifts.

The only Spiritual Gifts I've experienced is when I am by myself and HE puts another Christian across my path, and I encounter the enemy manifestating in that Christian. And other times when others have been praying for another's healing, and I've passed on a word of knowledge that helped in a break-through.

Wow, I saw enough in Vietnam, and in those days I had no idea what I was experiencing then, but I now know now what was happening.

I know that each aircraft arriving and leaving airfields in Vietna were being cursed by Buddhist monks, and the same curses is what many Vietnam veterans suffer from still.

One day, I was at a morning tea meeting at an organisation that I was working as a volunteer . And as I sat there I received this great urgency to pray for one of the member's daughter who was involved in satanism. I had no idea what was happening, but the urgency became extremely overwhelming, in fact I began feel emotional, and left the meeting immediately, and climbed into my car, and then next minute I was blurting out in spirtual tongues, and prayed for minutes. When I stopped, I was exhausted, but felt at peace. I spoke to the girls parent if they had heard from their daughter and if she was in danger. I didn't share to them what I had happened, but I discerned that there was something going on in the heavenlies for her.

Blessings.

Similar has happened to me brother, on an "as and when" or "need to act" basis.

Just got to be open enough to spot the moving of the Spirit..highways and byways style.

Just how he would want it methinks.

 

[Strong in Him]

Lets face it.

How many of the Gifts of the Spirit do we ever get to see ?

I would guess that depends on what you call a gift of the Spirit, and where you are looking.

It seems to me that in discussions about the gifts of the Spirit a lot of Christians refer only to those listed in 1 Corinthians 12 (and maybe Romans and Ephesians too.) It is only the outward and dramatic gifts - e.g tongues, prophecy, word of knowledge, discernment - that ever seem to be desired or worthy of attention. I'm sure I would feel out of place in a church where these gifts were valued and regularly practiced. In fact it has happened; I once went to a house church where, during a time of prayer, people were encouraged to really worship God by using tongues. I felt left out. I know the Lord hears all our prayers but I was unable to join in with something which was obviously important in that church. I can understand why sometimes people might be tempted to make things up; there are times when you don't seem to be accepted unless you have had the experience.

As far as I am concerned the Spirit gives many gifts; music, songwriting, creativity, sorting out church finances, children's work, compassion for the poor/homeless/disadvantaged, the ability to raise, or make, money to help them, listening, prayer etc etc. Some of these we should all be concerned about, to some extent. But the ability to get alongside children, earn their trust and communicate with them is a gift; some people tolerate children being in church but don't want to help them learn about the faith. And we should all listen, but how many people really do?

Most of the time we may get the odd "falling" of the Spirit and we get a little buzz from that.

Maybe - if you are in a church that understands about this, and sees it as a sign that the Spirit is at work. In many, I suspect, people would think the person had fainted.

But how are any of the 9 gifts mentioned in 1st Corinthians (and others re: Romans) actually validated ?

Like I say, it depends what you focus on.
1 Corinthians mentions the gifts of healing (and God can heal through the medical profession), teaching and administration; Romans talks about leadership, encouraging others, showing mercy, giving to the needs of others; 1 Peter 4 talks about service. All of these are not only valid, but vital, I'd say.

How can we distinguish that they are anything more than natural efforts ?

If God created us in his image and gave us, not only life but everything we have, then what some people say is a "natural talent" must surely be from him also?
Christians choose, hopefully, to use their talents and gifts for God, in his service and to his glory. So Graham Kendrick's gift of song writing is sanctified and glorifies God. People who write heavy metal songs, or whatever, have a gift of songwriting too, it's just that some of them use it only for their own pleasure or to make money, and don't attribute it to God or honour him with it.

All the real "stuff" seems to come from 3rd hand reporting, or way off in Africa somewhere.

So only the "dramatic" gift are the "real stuff" then?

Isn't it time we just called ourselves glorified baptists

Not if you're a Methodist, no.

 

[pdudgeon]

How many of the Gifts of the Spirit do we ever get to see ?

since you are in the vacinity of London, go to the Fulwell Cross Library in Barkingside, London this Thursday night at 7:30 pm and talk to Ben.
tell him i sent you.

 

[mrhappy3]

since you are in the vacinity of London, go to the Fulwell Cross Library in Barkingside, London this Thursday night at 7:30 pm and talk to Ben.
tell him i sent you.

Tell me more, I could get there.

Is there a meeting there ?? & How are you connected ??

 

[JimB]

Lets face it.

How many of the Gifts of the Spirit do we ever get to see ?

Most of the time we may get the odd "falling" of the Spirit and we get a little buzz from that.

But how are any of the 9 gifts mentioned in 1st Corinthians (and others re: Romans) actually validated ?

How can we distinguish that they are anything more than natural efforts ?

Haven't seen many casting out of devils ? Speaking in tongues without someone being coerced ?

All the real "stuff" seems to come from 3rd hand reporting, or way off in Africa somewhere.

Isn't it time we just called ourselves glorified baptists

Congratulations, I see you are going through a paradigm shift that thousands before you have gone through. It looks like it leads into the woods but you will never know what is on the other side of those trees until you follow where God is leading you. Keep your bearing, keep questioning, and do not be tempted to return to the sty God is leading you away from. It was a comfortable sty to be sure but it was a sty all the same.

Still, the things you mention in the OP are the externals of the faith, not the inner reality that makes us salt and light. Sure, we have misused the power of God by turning it into theater and not to serve mankind.

There’s more to church than getting a regular buzz, a weekly fix, or seeing the Sunday show. “Church” was designed to be a community where we come to receive strength and refueling for ministry in/for the marketplace. But we have made it a Sunday theater with stage lights, chorus lines of “worship” singers, microphones, elaborate sound systems, praise dancers, skits, solo singers who look like Dolly Partin but sound like [expletive] and the preacher who is more of an over-dressed stand-up comic than a messenger of truth and who has a bag of tricks (aka, gifts) he displays from time to time for the entertainment of his audience. That’s why our pews are packed with spectators at a show, not participants in the Kingdom of God. Our modern televised worship services sometimes look more like Branson than the Kingdom.

And now, Mr. Happy, you are beginning to see Penny-costalism and Charis-mania through the same lenses the world—and the Lord—view it. We thought we looked chic and cool and with-it, but in the eyes of the world we look like a poor copy of Las Vegas. Surely, there’s more to Christianity than us making a fool of ourselves and maybe the reality is not in the weekend spectacular but in simply everyday living out the life of Christ in us.

IMO, P/C’s made a contribution to Christianity by giving back to the modern church something it had lost in the reality of the power of God. Then the devil and the flesh stepped in to discredit that message by deceiving its very practitioners into making it into a silly weekly show. And we can become so deeply caught up in the glitter and pizzazz of the whole thing that we can no longer see how ridiculous we look to the world outside our little theater.

So, Happy, keep going. From your OP it looks like God is leading you into something more authentic.

The decade I have been away from the show has been the most spiritually rewarding and Spirit fulfilling time of my life.

~Anne Teak

War never decides who is right, only who is left.​

 

[pinetree]

Congratulations, I see you are going through a paradigm shift that thousands before you have gone through. It looks like it leads into the woods but you will never know what is on the other side of those trees until you follow where God is leading you. Keep your bearing, keep questioning, and do not be tempted to return to the sty God is leading you away from. It was a comfortable sty to be sure but it was a sty all the same.

Still, the things you mention in the OP are the externals of the faith, not the inner reality that makes us salt and light. Sure, we have misused the power of God by turning it into theater and not to serve mankind.

There’s more to church than getting a regular buzz, a weekly fix, or seeing the Sunday show. “Church” was designed to be a community where we come to receive strength and refueling for ministry in/for the marketplace. But we have made it a Sunday theater with stage lights, chorus lines of “worship” singers, microphones, elaborate sound systems, praise dancers, skits, solo singers who look like Dolly Partin but sound like [expletive] and the preacher who is more of an over-dressed stand-up comic than a messenger of truth and who has a bag of tricks (aka, gifts) he displays from time to time for the entertainment of his audience. That’s why our pews are packed with spectators at a show, not participants in the Kingdom of God. Our modern televised worship services sometimes look more like Branson than the Kingdom.

And now, Mr. Happy, you are beginning to see Penny-costalism and Charis-mania through the same lenses the world—and the Lord—view it. We thought we looked chic and cool and with-it, but in the eyes of the world we look like a poor copy of Las Vegas. Surely, there’s more to Christianity than us making a fool of ourselves and maybe the reality is not in the weekend spectacular but in simply everyday living out the life of Christ in us.

IMO, P/C’s made a contribution to Christianity by giving back to the modern church something it had lost in the reality of the power of God. Then the devil and the flesh stepped in to discredit that message by deceiving its very practitioners into making it into a silly weekly show. And we can become so deeply caught up in the glitter and pizzazz of the whole thing that we can no longer see how ridiculous we look to the world outside our little theater.

So, Happy, keep going. From your OP it looks like God is leading you into something more authentic.

The decade I have been away from the show has been the most spiritually rewarding and Spirit fulfilling time of my life.

~Anne Teak

War never decides who is right, only who is left.​

heheheh good post there Jim~!

sounds like dollyworld....

I agree,mrhappy will be glad to be on a journey!

 

[mrhappy3]

Congratulations, I see you are going through a paradigm shift that thousands before you have gone through. It looks like it leads into the woods but you will never know what is on the other side of those trees until you follow where God is leading you. Keep your bearing, keep questioning, and do not be tempted to return to the sty God is leading you away from. It was a comfortable sty to be sure but it was a sty all the same.

Still, the things you mention in the OP are the externals of the faith, not the inner reality that makes us salt and light. Sure, we have misused the power of God by turning it into theater and not to serve mankind.

There’s more to church than getting a regular buzz, a weekly fix, or seeing the Sunday show. “Church” was designed to be a community where we come to receive strength and refueling for ministry in/for the marketplace. But we have made it a Sunday theater with stage lights, chorus lines of “worship” singers, microphones, elaborate sound systems, praise dancers, skits, solo singers who look like Dolly Partin but sound like [expletive] and the preacher who is more of an over-dressed stand-up comic than a messenger of truth and who has a bag of tricks (aka, gifts) he displays from time to time for the entertainment of his audience. That’s why our pews are packed with spectators at a show, not participants in the Kingdom of God. Our modern televised worship services sometimes look more like Branson than the Kingdom.

And now, Mr. Happy, you are beginning to see Penny-costalism and Charis-mania through the same lenses the world—and the Lord—view it. We thought we looked chic and cool and with-it, but in the eyes of the world we look like a poor copy of Las Vegas. Surely, there’s more to Christianity than us making a fool of ourselves and maybe the reality is not in the weekend spectacular but in simply everyday living out the life of Christ in us.

IMO, P/C’s made a contribution to Christianity by giving back to the modern church something it had lost in the reality of the power of God. Then the devil and the flesh stepped in to discredit that message by deceiving its very practitioners into making it into a silly weekly show. And we can become so deeply caught up in the glitter and pizzazz of the whole thing that we can no longer see how ridiculous we look to the world outside our little theater.

So, Happy, keep going. From your OP it looks like God is leading you into something more authentic.

The decade I have been away from the show has been the most spiritually rewarding and Spirit fulfilling time of my life.

~Anne Teak

War never decides who is right, only who is left.​

What a great post. Bravo.

thank you

 

[nephilimiyr]

Lets face it.

How many of the Gifts of the Spirit do we ever get to see ?

Most of the time we may get the odd "falling" of the Spirit and we get a little buzz from that.

But how are any of the 9 gifts mentioned in 1st Corinthians (and others re: Romans) actually validated ?

How can we distinguish that they are anything more than natural efforts ?

Haven't seen many casting out of devils ? Speaking in tongues without someone being coerced ?

All the real "stuff" seems to come from 3rd hand reporting, or way off in Africa somewhere.

Isn't it time we just called ourselves glorified baptists

If you don't see any of the gifts in operation then it is time you start praying for them to manafest. I chose to not give up and pray for them every day.

I refuse to drop the term!

 

[nephilimiyr]

since you are in the vacinity of London, go to the Fulwell Cross Library in Barkingside, London this Thursday night at 7:30 pm and talk to Ben.
tell him i sent you.

Auchhh! Those people are just after a "buzz", "a weekly fix", "a show". You know that, why come here and lie to us and imply that the gifts are actually manafesting there, or anywhere? I know this is the Spirit-filled/Charismatic forum and all but how dare you suggest such a thing! You're just blindly being led by all those Dolly Partons and that stand up comedian you call a pastor!

 

[BenAdam]

Personally I hate the term Charismatic. I don't consider myself one (used to).

 

[pinetree]

Auchhh! Those people are just after a "buzz", "a weekly fix", "a show". You know that, why come here and lie to us and imply that the gifts are actually manafesting there, or anywhere? I know this is the Spirit-filled/Charismatic forum and all but how dare you suggest such a thing! You're just blindly being led by all those Dolly Partons and that stand up comedian you call a pastor!

you northern guys are quite chirppy this morning I see...

cold weather got ya fiesty?

 

[pinetree]

Personally I hate the term Charismatic. I don't consider myself one (used to).

what be u?

 

[nephilimiyr]

you northern guys are quite chirppy this morning I see...

cold weather got ya fiesty?

You wake up once when It's 4 degrees out and have to drive your son to work.

I'll probably be here all morning to be "chirpy" seeing that I cancelled school for myself.

LOL, you know I'm just having fun, and why not, I got the day off!!!!

 

[pinetree]

You wake up once when It's 4 degrees out and have to drive your son to work.

I'll probably be here all morning to be "chirpy" seeing that I cancelled school for myself.

LOL, you know I'm just having fun, and why not, I got the day off!!!!

I have coffee jitters.....wakes my other half up...

 

[BenAdam]

what be u?

I would identify myself as being post-charismatic, but that is a descriptive term, not a label. I am just a joe trying to be more Christ-like every day. I learn what I can from each group. I operate in the gifts of the Spirit yet I am carnal at times too.

 

[pinetree]

I would identify myself as being post-charismatic, but that is a descriptive term, not a label. I am just a joe trying to be more Christ-like every day. I learn what I can from each group. I operate in the gifts of the Spirit yet I am carnal at times too.

Thank you.

 

[LogosRhema]

I can testify through my life what Jim has said there. I identify such a mindset as emotionalism... Is almost no different as getting high on drugs... eventually the Christian will burn out and at that turning point a moving forward or falling away could occur... Dangerous ground.