Is it appropriate to call Old Covenant believers "christians"?

[Sammy-San]

Old Testament believers, like David and Abraham, were saved because they knew God would provide a way in the future to forgive them of their sins (ie, Jesus).

If the Old Testament way of salvation was not keeping the Law, then how were people saved? Fortunately, the answer to that question is easily found in Scripture, so there can be no doubt as to what was the Old Testament way of salvation. In Romans 4 the apostle Paul makes it very clear that the Old Testament way of salvation was the same as the New Testament way, which is by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone. To prove this, Paul points us to Abraham, who was saved by faith: “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness” (Romans 4:3). Again, Paul quotes the Old Testament to prove his point—Genesis 15:6, this time. Abraham could not have been saved by keeping the Law, because he lived over 400 years before the Law was given!

Paul then shows that David was also saved by faith (Romans 4:6-8, quoting Psalm 32:1-2). Paul continues to establish that the Old Testament way of salvation was through faith alone. In Romans 4:23-24 he writes, “The words ‘it was credited to him’ were written not for him alone, but also for us, to whom God will credit righteousness—for us who believe in him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead.” In other words, righteousness is “credited” or given to those who have faith in God—Abraham, David, and we all share the same way of salvation.

Much of Romans and Galatians addresses the fact that there is only one way of salvation and only one gospel message. Throughout history people have tried to pervert the gospel by adding human works to it, requiring certain things to be done to “earn” salvation. But the Bible’s clear message is that the way of salvation has always been through faith. In the Old Testament, it was faith in the promise that God would send a Savior someday. Those who lived in the time of the Old Testament looked forward to the Messiah and believed God’s promise of the coming Servant of the Lord (Isaiah 53). Those who exercised such faith were saved. Today we look back on the life, death and resurrection of the Savior and are saved by faith in Jesus Christ’s atonement for our sins (Romans 10:9-10).

The gospel is not an exclusively New Testament message. The Old Testament contained it as well: “The Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: ‘All nations will be blessed through you.’ So those who have faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith” (Galatians 3:8-9, quoting Genesis 12:3).

As early as Genesis 3:15, we see the promise of a coming Savior, and throughout the Old Testament there are hundreds of promises that the Messiah would “save His people from their sins” (Matthew 1:21; cf. Isaiah 53:5-6). Job’s faith was in the fact that he knew that his “Redeemer lives, and that in the end he will stand upon the earth” (Job 19:25). Clearly, Old Testament saints were aware of the promised Redeemer, and they were saved by faith in that Savior, the same way people are saved today. There is no other way. Jesus is “‘the stone you builders rejected, which has become the capstone.’ Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved” (Acts 4:11-12, quoting Psalm 118:22).

Read more: What was the Old Testament way of salvation?

Being that they went to Heaven, believed in God, and knew that God would provide a way to forgive them of their sins, does it make sense to call them Christians, or not? Even though they werent around in Jesus's time and were not his followers and didnt know of his death on the cross, they indirectly knew about him and had a relationship with God.

Would you consider them to be Christians, or not?

 

[Alithis]

Old Testament believers, like David and Abraham, were saved because they knew God would provide a way in the future to forgive them of their sins (ie, Jesus).



Read more: What was the Old Testament way of salvation?

Being that they went to Heaven, believed in God, and knew that God would provide a way to forgive them of their sins, does it make sense to call them Christians, or not? Even though they werent around in Jesus's time and were not his followers and didnt know of his death on the cross, they indirectly knew about him and had a relationship with God.

Would you consider them to be Christians, or not?

sinch "christian" is a name given to those who believed in the revealed saviour in bodily form and followed his "way".. then technically speaking the term would not apply.
But if your asking are they saved? yes.. they put their faith in what God SAID...his word.. and later,his wordbecame flesh.

 

[Anna the Seeker]

The Christian Bible doesn't deny the existence or significance of the Ark of Covenant, but is dismisses it's significance when it's replaced by Jesus.

And I would have Jesus instead of any chest of gold and wood, in either case.

 

[1watchman]

In the OT the Israelites worshipped Jehovah-God by keeping His ordinances, sacrifices, and praying to God with hope. They mostly did not have the communion we have by our Lord Jesus, the Christ of God. They were not Christians, but the truly faithful ones will be in Heaven.

Many Israelites enjoyed the mercies and blessings of God by taking their place among God's company with circumcision (like unto baptism and Kingdom of Heaven today), but without the sacrifices they had no salvation --same with professing Christians today, we need the sacrifice which is Jesus the Christ (fulfillment of Israel's sacrifices), though one might follow Christian teachings for mercies and care.

To be in the Kingdom of God one must be "born again" by the indwelling and sealing of the Holy Spirit, which is by receiving the Lord Jesus Christ into our heart with trust and devotion.

 

[RDKirk]

sinch "christian" is a name given to those who believed in the revealed saviour in bodily form and followed his "way".. then technically speaking the term would not apply.
But if your asking are they saved? yes.. they put their faith in what God SAID...his word.. and later,his wordbecame flesh.

Yes, agreed.

 

[OldStudent]

Messiah = Christos = Anointed One
Whether a person looked forward to the Messiah or a person looks backward to Christ both focus on the same One anointed, appointed to accomplish our redemption from brokenness which is sin. Ones linguistic culture has no relevance Who the Redeemer is. Any who accept Him as their Savior and Lord receives the merits salvation He provides.

The lamb slain in Eden pointed forward to "the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world."

 

[Andry]

Would you consider them to be Christians, or not?

Is it appropriate to call ourselves Christians?

 

[Sammy-San]

Is it appropriate to call ourselves Christians?

What are you implying?

 

[BryanW92]

Is it appropriate to call ourselves Christians?

What are you implying?

It's what I call "contemporary Christian angst". It's the idea that we are failed Christians because we don't perfectly mimic Christ so we don't have a right to call ourselves by his name. It's the most insidious works-based faith that there is.

 

[Andry]

It's what I call "contemporary Christian angst". It's the idea that we are failed Christians because we don't perfectly mimic Christ so we don't have a right to call ourselves by his name. It's the most insidious works-based faith that there is.

That's presumptuous of you.

 

[Andry]

What are you implying?

During the early church to be called "Christian" was derogatory. They didn't refer to themselves that; rather, as "followers of the way".

We have today a destinational mindset, ie. you're "saved" to go to heaven, rather than a directional mindset, ie. follow me, as Jesus said to his disciples, and as God spoke to Abraham, not knowing where he was going, he got up an went, in a direction God told him to go. So was he "Christian" in the way we understand it, or was he a follower of the way? It was his faith that was accounted his righteousness from God, just as it is today.

 

[RDKirk]

During the early church to be called "Christian" was derogatory. They didn't refer to themselves that; rather, as "followers of the way".

However, if you suffer as a Christian, do not be ashamed, but praise God that you bear that name. -- 1 Peter 4:16

They seem to have gotten over it.

We have today a destinational mindset, ie. you're "saved" to go to heaven, rather than a directional mindset, ie. follow me, as Jesus said to his disciples, and as God spoke to Abraham, not knowing where he was going, he got up an went, in a direction God told him to go. So was he "Christian" in the way we understand it, or was he a follower of the way? It was his faith that was accounted his righteousness from God, just as it is today.

We are instructed to have a destinational mindset:

So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen, since what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal. -- 2 Corinthians 4

I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus. -- Philippians 3

Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles. And let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us, fixing our eyes on Jesus, the pioneer and perfecter of faith. -- Hebrews 12:1

This doesn't mean we don't follow directions for the correct path to the goal, but you don't forget the goal.

 

[BryanW92]

That's presumptuous of you.

Yes it is. But it is a presumption based on evidence and experience.

 

[Andry]

However, if you suffer as a Christian, do not be ashamed, but praise God that you bear that name. -- 1 Peter 4:16

They seem to have gotten over it.



We are instructed to have a destinational mindset:

So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen, since what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal. -- 2 Corinthians 4

I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus. -- Philippians 3

Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles. And let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us, fixing our eyes on Jesus, the pioneer and perfecter of faith. -- Hebrews 12:1

This doesn't mean we don't follow directions for the correct path to the goal, but you don't forget the goal.

I never suggested we forget the goal, but heaven's not the primary goal.

 

[Andry]

Yes it is. But it is a presumption based on evidence and experience.

I read your response that you thought I was works-based.

 

[BryanW92]

I read your response that you thought I was works-based.

Not you specifically. I was talking about the idea that we aren't good enough to call ourselves Chritian.

 

[ErezY]

Old Testament believers, like David and Abraham, were saved because they knew God would provide a way in the future to forgive them of their sins (ie, Jesus).



Read more: What was the Old Testament way of salvation?

Being that they went to Heaven, believed in God, and knew that God would provide a way to forgive them of their sins, does it make sense to call them Christians, or not? Even though they werent around in Jesus's time and were not his followers and didnt know of his death on the cross, they indirectly knew about him and had a relationship with God.

Would you consider them to be Christians, or not?

Not. Not in the way Christian is defined today. What your realizing is that Jews have been placing 'faith' in God for salvation long before the Christian church existed. And is in fact what your theology is founded on. The fact that there were believing Jews who spoke of the Messiah and how he would come and redeem Israel from their sins commited against God.

I guess you could consider them Christian in the sense they placed faith in the same Messiah for the same reasons. But as far as culture and theology, no they were Jewish not Christian.

 

[JLR1300]

The old Testament people were not saved by keeping the laws and sacrifices of Moses. They were saved by faith in the coming Messiah. Here is why. The blood of sheep and goats could never really wash away sin. Anything done unintentional is not a real sin...it is a mistake. An intentional or presumpteous sin (in other words real sin) could not be forgiven under the old covenant. Numbers 15 tells us that only unintentional transgressions could be atoned for by an animal sacrifice. It says that no presumpteous or intentional sin can be forgiven.
So here is the situation. In the Old Testament animal sacrifices were just PICTURES or SYMBOLS or SHADOWS of the REAL sacrifice which was Jesus and his shed blood. Those shadows could not really forgive intentional sin (real sin)... they could only cover Shadow ( fake ) sin (Unintentional sin). Ceremonial sin (unintentional) could be "forgiven" by ceremonial sacrifice (an animal) The elect Old Testament people saw that their actual problem was not that they had unintentionally "sinned" and needed a ceremonial shadow sacrifice. They saw that they had intentionally sinned (actually sinned) and thus needed a real sacrifice.... so they looked for a messiah to come from Abraham's lineage to be a real sacrifice. The non-elect Jews wouldn't admit to themselves that they had done any intentional sin and so they were fine with just animal sacrifices.

 

[Sammy-San]

The old Testament people were not saved by keeping the laws and sacrifices of Moses. They were saved by faith in the coming Messiah. Here is why. The blood of sheep and goats could never really wash away sin. Anything done unintentional is not a real sin...it is a mistake. An intentional or presumpteous sin (in other words real sin) could not be forgiven under the old covenant. Numbers 15 tells us that only unintentional transgressions could be atoned for by an animal sacrifice. It says that no presumpteous or intentional sin can be forgiven.
So here is the situation. In the Old Testament animal sacrifices were just PICTURES or SYMBOLS or SHADOWS of the REAL sacrifice which was Jesus and his shed blood. Those shadows could not really forgive intentional sin (real sin)... they could only cover Shadow ( fake ) sin (Unintentional sin). Ceremonial sin (unintentional) could be "forgiven" by ceremonial sacrifice (an animal) The elect Old Testament people saw that their actual problem was not that they had unintentionally "sinned" and needed a ceremonial shadow sacrifice. They saw that they had intentionally sinned (actually sinned) and thus needed a real sacrifice.... so they looked for a messiah to come from Abraham's lineage to be a real sacrifice. The non-elect Jews wouldn't admit to themselves that they had done any intentional sin and so they were fine with just animal sacrifices.

Did people who lived outside of Israel find salvation? Being that they had no idea about blood paying the debt for sins, how could they have gone to Heaven?

 

[JLR1300]

There were some who heard of Israel's God and evidently believed. We know of some like Rahab who were not Israelites who believed and were saved according to the book of Hebrews. We also know that as Jesus said if we seek and if we knock we will find. In theory God would make a way for a true seeker to find the God of the Hebrews and believe in Him. However, according to Paul.... "there are none that seeketh after God" So the reality is that not many were saved.

We also know that In the book of Acts Paul says that regarding Idol worshipers... that in the Old Testament times God "winked" at their ignorance. And Jesus taught that people who are lost will be judged according to the light that was given them. So the end result would seem to be that not many non-hebrews were saved but that the Judgement they face is small in comparison to those in the new Testament times who hear the gospel of Christ and reject it .

Of course, I personally am an annihilationist who believes that unsaved people will be punished with either many lashes or few and then destroyed. I get that from Matt. 10 28 where Jesus said to fear God who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell" ...Now if you are destroyed in Hell it is an eternal punishment because you can never be resurrected. So for me at least, the Old Testament people who knew little will be punished little and then cease to exist. I could give you tons and tons of information about all of this but there is a rule that we cannot argue about annihilation on this part of the forum and so I won't persue it.

My only real point is that there are none but the elect that seek after God (Because God draws them... (greek drags) and so in the Old Test. mainly just Jews were saved but God is not cruel and will not punish the Old Test people unreasonably or unjustly. "Will not the judge of all the earth do right?" (Job)