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Is heaven the same?

Discussion in 'LCMS/WELS/ELS/LCC' started by wendit, Feb 11, 2012.

  1. wendit

    wendit Newbie

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    Is heaven the same for everyone or will some experience a better or worst heaven? I am in the midst of a financial battle with a business owner, I feel that I have been severely wronged by her sinful actions. But she also presents herself as Cristian woman, so I end up feeling like getting even somehow, especially if she will enjoy the same heaven. Will there be justice? Will God get even some other way? Or should I just forgive and forget, and hope no one else is wronged by her deceitful ways?
     
  2. Aibrean

    Aibrean Honest. Maybe too Honest.

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    There aren't levels of heaven. Not all those who say they are Christians are (not saying this woman isn't).

    Matthew 7:21-23
    English Standard Version (ESV)
    I Never Knew You

    Keeping that in mind, you also need to look at yourself before judging her. You are more focused on her getting "punished" then you are her acting more like a Christian. Don't be trying to pluck the splinter out of her eye when you've got one in your own. We are all sinners and don't always do and think as we should.
     
  3. joyfulthanks

    joyfulthanks The long day is over. Praise the Lord!

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    Christian Doctrine by Edward Koehler (a text that has been used for many, many years by our seminaries), says:

    "Although all saints in heaven enjoy perfect bliss, there will be degrees of glory. As there are degrees of punishment for the lost in hell and degrees and ranks among the good angels in heaven, so there will be degrees of glory for the saints in heaven. Greater glory is given as a reward. It is not earned but given by God's grace. It is given to those who showed their faith in consecrated service to the Lord (Luke 19:12-19; Daniel 12:3), in many good works done to their neighbors (2 Corinthians 9:6; Galatians 6:8-9), and in suffering for the Lord's sake (Matthew 5:11-12)."

    Notice, though, that those degrees are not related to our level of sinfulness. In other words, no one who trusts in Christ for the forgiveness of sin will be punished for the evil that they have done. All of our sins are forgiven equally and completely by Christ. And if God forgives me, I must forgive others, entrust the situation to our loving heavenly Father, and ask Him to help me love others as He loves them.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2012
  4. DaRev

    DaRev New Member

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    Our time in heaven is only temporary. The ultimate end is the new earth on the last day. Heaven is only an interim state.
     
  5. wendit

    wendit Newbie

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    What???
     
  6. DaRev

    DaRev New Member

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    It's what we confess in the Nicene Creed: "We look for the resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come." Going to heaven is not our ultimate end. The resurrection and eternity on the new earth is.
     
  7. Luther073082

    Luther073082 κύριε ἐλέησον χριστὲ ἐλέησον

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    When you die, you go to what we call "Heaven" to be with Christ in paradise. However this isn't where you stay for eternity.

    At the end, Christ will return to defeat the Anti-Christ and you will return as a resurrected body to live on the new earth. Basically I've heard it described as a re-created Garden of Eden where God perfects the world again. It is in this world that we will spend eternity. Hence you will not remain in "Heaven" for eternity, but only until Christ returns to the world in glory.

    Hence in the third article of the apostle's creed.

    "I belive in the Holy Spirit, Holy catholic church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and the life everlasting.

    Or in the Nicene creed as DaRev pointed out

    "And I believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.I acknowledge one Baptism for the remission of sins; and I look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come."

    In these creeds you profess your belief that your body will be resurrected by God, in a perfect form and you will in fact live on earth (albeit a new and perfected earth) for eternity.

    Don't feel bad though, for some reason or another a lot of people are confused about this, and I often feel that this topic isn't generally taught with enough clarity.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2012
  8. twin.spin

    twin.spin Trust the LORD and not on your own understanding

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    " 'Everything is permissible'—but not everything is beneficial. 'Everything is permissible'—but not everything is constructive. "

    Maybe you're trying to sound profound ... but for the avg layman that was neither beneficial or constructive. And though you maybe profoundly correct ... after I die, I'm spending the rest of eternity with God and that will be heaven. I make no distinction from where God resides and heaven. Wherever heaven ends up on after Judgement Day .. it's still heaven for me.
     
  9. twin.spin

    twin.spin Trust the LORD and not on your own understanding

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    And for good reason .... maybe because it not important to focus on what would be considered symantics. When one finally resides with the Lord forever, that will be heaven.... wherever that ultimatly ends up to be.

    IMO, no need to to be profound when being a :holy: is our goal.

    Besides, those of us in our room called "heaven" will invite you guy's from your room called "earth" for a good ol' game of sheepshead. ;)
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2012
  10. twin.spin

    twin.spin Trust the LORD and not on your own understanding

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    Will heaven be the same ... from what I've been told that's yes and no.

    Jesus' Parable of the Workers in the Vineyard larger point is that yes.. we all will recieve the same reward however Paul in 1 Corinthian 15:35-42 writes that there will be different kind of splendor that the resurrected will have.

    "The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor. So will it be with the resurrection of the dead.
    My pastor said for him .... just being in heaven is splendor enough. How God differs the splendor will be just fine for him.
     
  11. alexnbethmom

    alexnbethmom Lutheran Chick

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    wow - uh, that was both beneficial and constructive, what he posted - and it's plain and simple english....and while you are correct, that wherever we are with God will be heaven, what he posted is absolutely correct as well.
     
  12. DaRev

    DaRev New Member

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    But that's not Lutheran teaching nor is it Biblical. Genesis 1 clearly states that Heaven and Earth are distinct.
     
  13. DaRev

    DaRev New Member

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    In a figurative sense, that is correct.
     
  14. twin.spin

    twin.spin Trust the LORD and not on your own understanding

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    Yes I agree, Genesis 1 does .... and in Revelation 21:1-3, Heaven (where God dwells) and earth will not be distict.

    And unless one can tell me otherwise... that is Lutheran teaching and Biblical.
     
  15. DaRev

    DaRev New Member

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    I suggest you read it again. It distinctly mentions heaven and earth separately. Verse 3 says that the dwelling place of God will be with man. It does not equate the dwelling place of God with heaven exclusively. Man's dwelling place for eternity will be the earth. It is Biblical, thus Lutheran.