Is everyone saved?

[GravyTrain2012]

Is all of mankind already saved? My understanding is that Jesus saved all men "For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers. (1 Timothy 4:10 NASB)

So where in the Bible does it say we need to accept Jesus as our personal savior?

 

[football5680]

Simply accepting Jesus isn't enough either.

"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. (Matthew 7:21)


You must both accept Jesus and live by his message to be saved. Jesus came to give everybody the opportunity to be saved, but not everybody will accept him. If Jesus saved everybody regardless of what they do then sin wouldn't matter. Everybody could do what they wanted and still get into heaven.

 

[MrPolo]

Is all of mankind already saved? My understanding is that Jesus saved all men "For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers. (1 Timothy 4:10 NASB)

So where in the Bible does it say we need to accept Jesus as our personal savior?

In this verse, you can see a dual sense in which Jesus is the Savior of all mankind. "Especially of believers" are those who would correspond to the saved in heaven. As the Savior of all others––mankind had a certain futile separation from God after the fall of Adam. Jesus reversed mankind's condition in that futile state (Rom 5:8-21), and is thus the "Savior" of all mankind. Because now, man has a means to be reconciled with God, which is through Christ. However, there are those who choose to forfeit the salvation he won for them, as evidenced by passages on heaven/hell like in Matthew 25 when Jesus separates the sheep/goats.

The phrase "accept Jesus as our personal Savior" isn't really in Scripture. And depending on how the phrase is meant, it can be deduced from Scripture in the sense of cooperating with the grace poured out by Christ's Passion, and reaching out toward the unrelenting hand of God, doing His will, repenting for sin.

 

[CityOfGod]

Is all of mankind already saved? My understanding is that Jesus saved all men "For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers. (1 Timothy 4:10 NASB)

Jesus Christ is the Savior of all men but only those who believe are saved.

So where in the Bible does it say we need to accept Jesus as our personal savior?

The bible doesn't say we need to accept Jesus as our personal savior.

It says to believe (have faith) in him.

 

[ananda]

So where in the Bible does it say we need to accept Jesus as our personal savior?

Scripture says we need to be like Messiah to be saved, not simply to believe in Messiah.

 

[CityOfGod]

Scripture says we need to be like Messiah to be saved, not simply to believe in Messiah.

John 6:29
Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”

John 3:14-15
Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.

John 3:16
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

John 3:18
Whoever believes in him is not condemned.

John 5:24
Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

John 6:47
Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life.

John 11:25-26
Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die; and whoever lives by believing in me will never die. Do you believe this?”

 

[ananda]

John 3:16
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

Οὕτως γὰρ ἠγάπησεν ὁ θεὸς τὸν κόσμον ὥστε τὸν υἱὸν αὐτοῦ τὸν μονογενῆ ἔδωκεν ἵνα πᾶς ὁ πιστεύων εἰς αὐτὸν μὴ ἀπόληται ἀλλ᾽ ἔχῃ ζωὴν αἰώνιον - Jn 3:16

ὁ πιστεύων εἰς τὸν υἱὸν ἔχει ζωὴν αἰώνιον ὁ δὲ ἀπειθῶν τῷ υἱῷ οὐκ ὄψεται ζωήν ἀλλ᾽ ἡ ὀργὴ τοῦ θεοῦ μένει ἐπ᾽ αὐτόν - Jn 3:36

Biblical greek was not as completely understood in the past (e.g. Wycliffe, Tyndale, KJV era) as much as it has been in the recent past. πιστεύων εἰς αὐτὸν,as found in Jn 3:16, is commonly translated "believes in Him," and down through the centuries, this singular interpretation has taken hold due to familiarity and tradition. Modern translators find it extremely difficult to break from tradition as well and they continue to provide this familiar translation, especially when it comes down to much loved and known verses such as John 3:16. Why? In fear of condemnation of overturning centuries of church tradition and doctrine (translation sales are also not far from sight too, I'm sure).

Major lexicons, e.g. TDNT, Liddell's, etc. today now admit that πιστεύω (pisteuo) includes the meanings "obey," "obedience," "comply," and "trust". Secondly, πιστεύων, in both verses, is in the Greek present participle active, which implies something which is continuous and persistent. Salvation is not based on a one time belief, according to these verses!

In essence and conclusion, the meaning of John 3:16 is more precisely:

"For Elohim so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that everyone who keeps on trusting and obeying for Him may not perish, but may have eternal life."
​

John 3:36 has the same Greek grammar. It translates, according to the same rules, more precisely:

"He who keeps on trusting and obeying for the Son keeps on having eternal life, but he who keeps on disobeying [note: apeitho only has one meaning: disobey!] the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God keeps on abiding on him. ..."
​

So, in conclusion - most of the time, when we see "believe" in major translations, it usually & actually more accurately means "trust and obey".

 

[CityOfGod]

Οὕτως γὰρ ἠγάπησεν ὁ θεὸς τὸν κόσμον ὥστε τὸν υἱὸν αὐτοῦ τὸν μονογενῆ ἔδωκεν ἵνα πᾶς ὁ πιστεύων εἰς αὐτὸν μὴ ἀπόληται ἀλλ᾽ ἔχῃ ζωὴν αἰώνιον - Jn 3:16

ὁ πιστεύων εἰς τὸν υἱὸν ἔχει ζωὴν αἰώνιον ὁ δὲ ἀπειθῶν τῷ υἱῷ οὐκ ὄψεται ζωήν ἀλλ᾽ ἡ ὀργὴ τοῦ θεοῦ μένει ἐπ᾽ αὐτόν - Jn 3:36

Biblical greek was not as completely understood in the past (e.g. Wycliffe, Tyndale, KJV era) as much as it has been in the recent past. πιστεύων εἰς αὐτὸν,as found in Jn 3:16, is commonly translated "believes in Him," and down through the centuries, this singular interpretation has taken hold due to familiarity and tradition. Modern translators find it extremely difficult to break from tradition as well and they continue to provide this familiar translation, especially when it comes down to much loved and known verses such as John 3:16. Why? In fear of condemnation of overturning centuries of church tradition and doctrine (translation sales are also not far from sight too, I'm sure).

Major lexicons, e.g. TDNT, Liddell's, etc. today now admit that πιστεύω (pisteuo) includes the meanings "obey," "obedience," "comply," and "trust". Secondly, πιστεύων, in both verses, is in the Greek present participle active, which implies something which is continuous and persistent. Salvation is not based on a one time belief, according to these verses!

In essence and conclusion, the meaning of John 3:16 is more precisely:

"For Elohim so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that everyone who keeps on trusting and obeying for Him may not perish, but may have eternal life."
​

John 3:36 has the same Greek grammar. It translates, according to the same rules, more precisely:

"He who keeps on trusting and obeying for the Son keeps on having eternal life, but he who keeps on disobeying [note: apeitho only has one meaning: disobey!] the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God keeps on abiding on him. ..."
​

So, in conclusion - most of the time, when we see "believe" in major translations, it usually & actually more accurately means "trust and obey".

So believe doesn't mean believe and the translators all got it wrong...gotcha.

 

[ananda]

So believe doesn't mean believe and the translators all got it wrong...gotcha.

No, I'm saying πιστεύων doesn't only mean "believe".

 

[CityOfGod]

No, I'm saying πιστεύων doesn't only mean "believe".

We have tons of bible versions.

They all translate these passages "believe".

I think I will take the translators word over yours.

 

[ananda]

We have tons of bible versions. They all translate these passages "believe". I think I will take the translators word over yours.

False. Not all translations translates πιστεύων as "believe", e.g. WNT, JMNT, NSB, ECB, MNT, Williams'.

I trust the Lexicons to show the full meanings of the word πιστεύων, and it is on record that πιστεύων also includes the meanings of trust, faithfulness, and obedience.

Be careful, as our eternal salvation is at stake here.

 

[98cwitr]

We have tons of bible versions.

They all translate these passages "believe".

I think I will take the translators word over yours.

Matthew 7:24
“Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock.

Matthew 7:26
But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand.

Luke 8:21
He replied, “My mother and brothers are those who hear God’s word and put it into practice.”


Real faith requires action. I'm sure you will agree.

 

[CityOfGod]

Real faith requires action. I'm sure you will agree.

I do agree. If you truly believe in Christ that will result in action.

 

[hedrick]

The meaning of pistis was one of the key issues in the Reformation. It's a word with quite a wide variety of meanings, so context matters. This is true even in English. If I say that I believe in you, it doesn't mean I think you exist. It means that I have confidence in you and trust you. The Reformers believed that faith (it's the same word -- it get translated faith and belief in different verses) had a large component of trust. TDNT says also "rely on."

However there are places where the context suggests a wider or narrower meaning. I would say that passages like John 3:16 have a wider meaning of "believe in." Is it a mistranslation? I'm not so sure. I think the normal English meaning of "believe in" when used of another person indicates confidence and trust. I agree that the implication is that we will do what he says. There are plenty of places where Jesus says that people who believe in him will obey him. One key passage is Heb 11, which emphasizes that it is by faith that key OT figures obeyed God. Yet I'm not sure that passage quite says that faith *is* obedience, but rather that trusting God (faith) allowed people to do all these things. I think the idea is rather that obedience is based on faith, not that they are the same thing.

Furthermore, translators of mainstream translations such as RSV / NRSV can reasonably assume that readers know something about the Biblical use of words. After all, Jewish use of Greek was often influenced by the way the Greek words were used in the LXX (the normal Greek translation of the OT), i.e. the Greek words had special overtones because of the OT background. Words like "justification" are used in special ways which someone knowing nothing about the Bible probably wouldn't understand. Belief and faith are words with special Christian overtones.

Translations intended for outreach and for younger Christians can't always make this assumption. So they may well use an explanatory phrase rather than a word like justify. For a translation like that, the translators should think whether "believe" has the right implications.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Is all of mankind already saved? My understanding is that Jesus saved all men "For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers. (1 Timothy 4:10 NASB)

Just read all 14 posts. First answer, no, not all of mankind is already saved. Nor will all of mankind be saved. Why? Because Rev 20:15 tells us that those who's names are not in the book of life, ie: they don't possess eternal life, will be cast into the Lake of Fire, which is an eternal existence separated from the presence of God (spiritual death) forever.

Second comment on 1 Tim 4:10; Paul was noting that Christ did die for all of mankind; that's what makes Christ the Savior of all men. By dying for all of mankind, He paid the full debt of sin for all of mankind, 1 Jn 2:2, and as well, purchased eternal life for all of mankind. Heb 10:12 says, "but He entered the Most Holy Place once for all by His own blood (death), having obtained eternal redemption."

So where in the Bible does it say we need to accept Jesus as our personal savior?

If one wants to be saved, i.e.: be rescued from the lake of fire, they must believe in Christ. Where does that come from? Paul's jailer asked him what he must do to be(come) saved. And Paul's answer was clear and straight: "believe (aorist tense) on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be (future tense) saved." And there are many other verses of guarantee.

The aorist tense indicates a "point in time", just like a snapshot of an action. And based on that point in time action, future salvation is guaranteed.

I noted one post that claimed that faith must be continuous for salvation. Yet Paul's answer here refutes that idea.

Read the gospel of John, the only evangelistic gospel. You will find many verses that tell you how to have eternal life. And Jesus said that He was The ONLY way, The ONLY truth and The ONLY life. Jn 14:6 No one comes to the Father, but by Him.

Acts 4:12 says, "There is salvation in no other. There is no other name under heaven given to men, by which we must be saved."

 

[Partaker of Christ]

False. Not all translations translates πιστεύων as "believe", e.g. WNT, JMNT, NSB, ECB, MNT, Williams'.

I trust the Lexicons to show the full meanings of the word πιστεύων, and it is on record that πιστεύων also includes the meanings of trust, faithfulness, and obedience.

Be careful, as our eternal salvation is at stake here.

So the physician says to the sick person, trust in me and continue obeying me, then I will heal your sickness?

We are saved to do good works, not, do good works and then be saved

You preach another gospel.

 

[Partaker of Christ]

Real faith requires action. I'm sure you will agree.

Real faith brings about action

“If you love me, you will keep my word”

 

[98cwitr]

Real faith brings about action

“If you love me, you will keep my word”

We're saying the same thing in different tenses

 

[Lion King]

Real faith brings about action

“If you love me, you will keep my word”

Faith is not love.

Love brings about action.

 

[98cwitr]

love can be a verb