Is Basic Morality Being Taught?

[ChristianCritic]

Aside from controversial moral issues, is basic morality being taught in churches? And even if it is, are churches employing effective methods in helping its members make moral improvements?

 

[MrJim]

What would be "basic morality" teaching? Like not cheating on your wife or lying and such?

 

[ChristianCritic]

What would be "basic morality" teaching? Like not cheating on your wife or lying and such?

Yes. As well as the six threads I started!

 

[MrJim]

Honestly I don't hear direct morality teaching from the pulpit~it seems to come across more like "here are the basic principles, you decide how you're going to proceed from here" kinda thing.

 

[ChristianCritic]

Honestly I don't hear direct morality teaching from the pulpit~it seems to come across more like "here are the basic principles, you decide how you're going to proceed from here" kinda thing.

I thought it was just me noticing that, this talking about sin in the "abstract." As they say, the devil is in the details!

 

[MrJim]

I thought it was just me noticing that, this talking about sin in the "abstract." As they say, the devil is in the details!

Some of my mennonite friends live under a more strict code that is heavily regulated by their congregation/denomination group. They've set specific standards even down to clothing in an earnest attempt teaching morality. I wouldn't have a problem with it though my wife isn't too keen on the idea

There's absolutely nothing wrong with congregations/denoms setting standards-problem happens when they decide that their standards set code for ALL Christians to follow..needless to say it tends to be a rather splintered sect of Christians...

 

[ChristianCritic]

Some of my mennonite friends live under a more strict code that is heavily regulated by their congregation/denomination group. They've set specific standards even down to clothing in an earnest attempt teaching morality. I wouldn't have a problem with it though my wife isn't too keen on the idea

There's absolutely nothing wrong with congregations/denoms setting standards-problem happens when they decide that their standards set code for ALL Christians to follow..needless to say it tends to be a rather splintered sect of Christians...

As a moderate Christian, I am open to different ways of doing things so long as they work and are beneficial! I've often debated whether it's better for a church to be "strict" or for a church to stress "individual responsibility." Maybe it's possible to come up with a middle way, which is to really emphasize education and community?

 

[MrJim]

As a moderate Christian, I am open to different ways of doing things so long as they work and are beneficial! I've often debated whether it's better for a church to be "strict" or for a church to stress "individual responsibility." Maybe it's possible to come up with a middle way, which is to really emphasize education and community?

People seem to be like sheep or horses~if they aren't able to be herded then they need a bit and bridle..

Education and community can work though it seems in this day and age there has grown a real need for more communal communities...IMO that would be something I could respond to...something more than just the lone family with church connections on Sunday and Wednesday...something like Simple Way or Jesus People or even the Hutterites.

 

[ChristianCritic]

People seem to be like sheep or horses~if they aren't able to be herded then they need a bit and bridle..

Education and community can work though it seems in this day and age there has grown a real need for more communal communities...IMO that would be something I could respond to...something more than just the lone family with church connections on Sunday and Wednesday...something like Simple Way or Jesus People or even the Hutterites.

Well that's what the Mennonites are famous for!

But there are a lot of people, especially in my generation, who are individualists and who would find a communal community stifling. Also, shouldn't the goal be eventually to reach a state of spiritual maturity such that you do the right thing even when you're on your own, there are no social sanctions to do good (or bad) and no one (except God) is watching?

 

[MrJim]

Well that's what the Mennonites are famous for!

But there are a lot of people, especially in my generation, who are individualists and who would find a communal community stifling. Also, shouldn't the goal be eventually to reach a state of spiritual maturity such that you do the right thing even when you're on your own, there are no social sanctions to do good (or bad) and no one (except God) is watching?

It is the goal yet it appears in our individualistic society that we can tend to stay as the individual without truly every knowing community. I am very guilty of that. With parenting and work I can pretty much use up most all the week just taking care of me and mine with little interaction beyond necessities. I would probably find it "stifling" yet I expect it would be more because things were going "my" way

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

Aside from controversial moral issues, is basic morality being taught in churches? And even if it is, are churches employing effective methods in helping its members make moral improvements?

Does it need to be, by humans? Doesn't that job belong to God Himself, as the Holy Spirit guiding each believer into all truth and being the only effective agent to convict of sin and righteousness and judgment? Have we reduced the miracle of reconciliation with the Creator through a living, vibrant, wholistic relationship with Christ to mere rote rule-following and step-by-step behavioral modification? Should church be, instead of the place to hear the Gospel and let its power work on us, nothing more than a mere humanly-constructed conformity mill???

UGH, God forbid.

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

People seem to be like sheep or horses~if they aren't able to be herded then they need a bit and bridle...

And then there exists intelligent life forms which need neither and feel rather insulted by attempts at either one. Where do we read a command to try to either herd or control others, as opposed to being kind to each other, bearing each other's burdens, encouraging one another, and loving one another? You won't find it in scripture, that bes for certain.

 

[MrJim]

And then there exists intelligent life forms which need neither and feel rather insulted by attempts at either one. Where do we read a command to try to either herd or control others, as opposed to being kind to each other, bearing each other's burdens, encouraging one another, and loving one another? You won't find it in scripture, that bes for certain.

Some consider simple congregational guidelines and the scriptures themselves to be "bit & bridle"; chains that restrict their liberty (or license?) to do as they "feel" led. Others see them as fences around the schoolyard keeping the kids from getting run over in the street.

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

Some consider simple congregational guidelines and the scriptures themselves to be "bit & bridle"; chains that restrict their liberty (or license?) to do as they "feel" led. Others see them as fences around the schoolyard keeping the kids from getting run over in the street.

And some happen to be adults who need neither one and do not care for being treated like either potential rebels or perpetual children.

Galatians 5:1 -- Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

1 Corinthians 13:11 -- When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

 

[MrJim]

And some happen to be adults who need neither one and do not care for being treated like either potential rebels or perpetual children.

Galatians 5:1 -- Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

1 Corinthians 13:11 -- When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

Submission to the Church is neither entanglement nor childish.

 

[StreetPreacher82]

Submission to the Church is neither entanglement nor childish.

I'm with you here. I think the church needs to stay within its bounds, but the average person is a sheep/horse and needs the leadership. To be able to walk properly, some direction must be given. In no way do I feel that a church setting a standard for itself limits anyone's liberty. Why? If you don't like it, leave.

 

[MrJim]

I'm with you here. I think the church needs to stay within its bounds, but the average person is a sheep/horse and needs the leadership. To be able to walk properly, some direction must be given. In no way do I feel that a church setting a standard for itself limits anyone's liberty. Why? If you don't like it, leave.

What Moriah may be getting at though is that authority as we understand is different that what God has meant for us~that if each submit to another, regardless of their "rank", we would have little use for control and power.

 

[StreetPreacher82]

What Moriah may be getting at though is that authority as we understand is different that what God has meant for us~that if each submit to another, regardless of their "rank", we would have little use for control and power.

Makes good sense. Point taken.

 

[MrJim]

Makes good sense. Point taken.

It makes ya wonder if there has ever been a level of maturity in the Church where we've seen this...I don't know if I'd recognize it.

 

[StreetPreacher82]

It makes ya wonder if there has ever been a level of maturity in the Church where we've seen this...I don't know if I'd recognize it.

Although I believe nothing is impossible... I'm not so sure either...