Is aborting a baby murder?

[tonychanyt]

Since a zygote is an unborn child, of course.

verse? reference?

 

[Friedrich Rubinstein]

verse? reference?

5th grade biology.

 

[tonychanyt]

5th grade biology.

verse? reference? Are you in the habit of saying things without reference support?

 

[Friedrich Rubinstein]

verse? reference?

An "unborn child" is a "not-yet-born offspring". A zygote is a human offspring (see the link I sent to the consensus on this), and it is not yet born. Hence a zygote is an unborn child.

 

[tonychanyt]

An "unborn child" is a "not-yet-born offspring". A zygote is a human offspring (see the link I sent to the consensus on this), and it is not yet born. Hence a zygote is an unborn child.

This is how to do referencing in a scholarly manner:

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4. Bold the relevant keywords that are important to the point that you are making.
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This is what I do for others who read my posts. It is a standard high-school scholarship. If you practice this, I guarantee you: it will improve your analytical thinking. In any case, no one is required to do it here

 

[AV1611VET]

46 posts now.

By the time we ascertain abortion is murder, ten thousand children in the womb will have been murdered.

 

[Friedrich Rubinstein]

This is how to do referencing in a scholarly manner:

1. Give the name of the source.
2. Provide the link to the source. It is the URL address
3. Indent the quoted text.
4. Bold the relevant keywords that are important to the point that you are making.
5. Be concise and to the point.

This is what I do for others who read my posts. It is a standard high-school scholarship. If you practice this, I guarantee you: it will improve your analytical thinking. In any case, no one is required to do it here

Instead of hiding behind formalities you could start engaging with my actual argument, which is Psalm 139. But here you go:

An unborn child is "a human in any stage of prenatal development from fertilization to birth." Wiki

 

[tonychanyt]

Instead of hiding behind formalities you could start engaging with my actual argument

Sorry, I can't argue until you have clarified your words. At this point, I don't even know what to argue about specifically. You can help me understand your words.

This is how to do referencing in a scholarly manner:
Give the name of the source.
Provide the link to the source. It is the URL address
Indent the quoted text.
Bold the relevant keywords that are important to the point that you are making.
Be concise and to the point.
This is what I do for others who read my posts. It is a standard high-school scholarship. If you practice this, I guarantee you: it will improve your analytical thinking. In any case, no one is required to do it here

 

[Friedrich Rubinstein]

Sorry, I can't argue until you have clarified your words. At this point, I don't even know what to argue about specifically. You can help me understand your words.

I will make it clearer for you then My point is that zygotes can inherit the Kingdom of God, based on Psalm 139:13-16. Because I don't believe that God will simply "forget" or "dismiss" you if you don't get past a certain stage of development in life.

 

[AV1611VET]

I will make it clearer for you then My point is that zygotes can inherit the Kingdom of God, based on Psalm 139:13-16. Because I don't believe that God will simply "forget" or "dismiss" you if you don't get past a certain stage of development in life.

We get a new body anyway.

 

[tonychanyt]

I will make it clearer for you then My point is that zygotes can inherit the Kingdom of God,

Good. Thanks

based on Psalm 139:13-16.

Thanks for the reference. This is how to do referencing in a scholarly manner:

1. Display and indent the quoted verse.
2. Bold the relevant keywords that are important to the point that you are making.
3. Be concise and to the point.

This is what I do for others who read my posts. It is a standard high-school scholarship. If you practice this, I guarantee you: it will improve your analytical thinking. In any case, no one is required to do it.

 

[Friedrich Rubinstein]

We get a new body anyway.

Exactly. I've yet to meet the person who thinks that an infant who dies will remain an infant in all eternity

 

[Friedrich Rubinstein]

Good. Thanks




Thanks for the reference. This is how to do referencing in a scholarly manner:

1. Display and indent the quoted verse.
2. Bold the relevant keywords that are important to the point that you are making.
3. Be concise and to the point.

This is what I do for others who read my posts. It is a standard high-school scholarship. If you practice this, I guarantee you: it will improve your analytical thinking. In any case, no one is required to do it.

I already quoted it in post #37 in case you don't have a Bible at hand. If you keep hiding behind formalities I will take it as a surrender of the discussion.

 

[tampasteve]

ADMIN HAT ON

This thread has been moved to a more appropriate forum.

ADMIN HAT ON

 

[tonychanyt]

I already quoted it in post #37 in case you don't have a Bible at hand. If you keep hiding behind formalities I will take it as a surrender of the discussion.

You have your own free-will.

This is how to do referencing in a scholarly manner:

1. Display and indent the quoted verse.
2. Bold the relevant keywords that are important to the point that you are making.
3. Be concise and to the point.

This is what I do for others who read my posts. It is a standard high-school scholarship. If you practice this, I guarantee you: it will improve your analytical thinking. In any case, no one is required to do it.

 

[fhansen]

Exodus 20:13 New International Version:

You shall not murder.​

LXX:

Οὐ φονεύσεις [G5407].​

Is aborting a baby murder?

The author of the Didache (1st century AD) thought so, Didache 2:

2 ου φονευσεις [G5407], ου μοιχευσεις, ου παιδοφθορησεις, ου πορνευσεις, ου κλεψεις, ου μαγευσεις, ου φαρμακευσεις, ου **φονευσεις τεκνον** εν φθορα ουδε γεννηθεν αποκτενεις.​

not you will murder , not you will do adultry , not you will do child sex, not you will do illicit sex, not you will steal , not you will do magic, not you will do sorcery , not you will murder child to destruction neither newly begotten in the womb you will kill.​

Lightfoot translated the Greek into the English "abortion":

{Thou shalt do no murder, thou shalt not commit adultery,} thou shalt not corrupt boys, thou shalt not commit fornication, {thou shalt not steal,} thou shalt not deal in magic, thou shalt do no sorcery, thou shalt not murder a child by abortion nor kill them when born,​

Elsewhere in Numbers 5:

27 If she has made herself impure and been unfaithful to her husband, this will be the result: When she is made to drink the water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering, it will enter her, her abdomen will swell and her womb will miscarry, and she will become a curse. 28 If, however, the woman has not made herself impure, but is clean, she will be cleared of guilt and will be able to have children.​

Did God cause abortion in this case?

I think the issue is more complex than simply the two extreme positions of pro-life and pro-choice. See When does soul life begin in the womb?.

Yes, the taking of innocent life is always murder-unless there are circumstances that mean the taking of that life constitutes some greater good. And since we cannot possibly know when else that life might begin, then conception is the only sane option, leaving life and death up to God, not us.

 

[tonychanyt]

Yes, the taking of innocent life is always murder-unless there are circumstances that mean the taking of that life constitutes some greater good. And since we cannot possibly know when else that life might begin, then conception is the only sane option, leaving life and death up to God, not us.

Right. When in doubt, play it safe

 

[Oompa Loompa]

Numbers 5:

27 If she has made herself impure and been unfaithful to her husband, this will be the result: When she is made to drink the water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering, it will enter her, her abdomen will swell and her womb will miscarry, and she will become a curse.​

Are you saying that the miscarriage did not did it have any effect on the unborn child?

I am saying that the bitter drink was harmless. Therefore, the only way for the miscarriage to have happened was it was God's will.

Is Numbers 5:11-31 referring to God causing an abortion? What was the jealousy offering? | GotQuestions.org

Is Numbers 5:11-31 referring to God causing an abortion? What was the jealousy offering? Why did a wife suspected of adultery have to drink the nasty water?

www.gotquestions.org

 

[tonychanyt]

I am saying that the bitter drink was harmless.

verse?

 

[XianGoth1334]

Abortion is almost always wrong / not justified. The question as to when the embryo becomes a human is a bit of an artificial distinction, often used to justify an immoral act. By the time the fetus clearly resembles a person, it is obviously murdering a child (especially if viable). It is obvious that that is murdering a child and anyone who says otherwise is in self-deception. There is that 'grey' period where it is not obvious that the embryo has become a person. However, the distinction is a bit artificial, because either way it is wrong. So many of the people who want casual early-term abortion on demand base this on some argument that it is not yet 'a human person' (often putting forward bogus justification about whether there is a soul, which no one can answer). And yet, these same people have gushy feelings over animals. And it is all backwards and screwed up. I do not want to see a cat or a guinea pig die a horrible painful death just because it is convenient. I do not want to see a chicken brutalized. I do not want to see any sentient lifeform abused or tortured. So why on earth would I want to see that at any stage of pregnancy? I have seen the silent scream it is awful. It is obviously wrong, no need to prove there is a soul yet (or not). Now, at the beginning I said 'almost always'. If the mother is going to die and you have to choose which life to save, you save the mother's life. Given the brutal nature of abortion, it should almost never happen. I am glad Roe V Wade was overturned and would support additional federal restrictions.