Irish voters choose marriage equality

[mindlight]

http://www.lbc.co.uk/archbishop-gay-marriage-could-mean-murder-of-african-christians-88469

 

[Cearbhall]

http://www.lbc.co.uk/archbishop-gay-marriage-could-mean-murder-of-african-christians-88469

And?

 

[mindlight]

Irish examples of discrimination against Christians as a result of "equality" legistlation.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-30341893

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-32791239

Hypocritically and worryingly they seem to get away with the same violation of another persons freedoms in refusing to bake traditional Christian marriage cakes

http://www.christianpost.com/news/1...ith-the-message-gay-marriage-is-wrong-131479/

 

[Armoured]

It's really a shame.

Yeah. Democracy. It's awful.

 

[Armoured]

Ahh, indeed, but it's seen as an affront to the Biblical definition of marriage.

The more it's legalised the sooner we'll probably see them push to have them conducted in churches.

So I hope other countries concede as little ground as possible over as long a period as possible.

No. Fear mongering and straw clutching aside, why would you think governments are all of a sudden going to start legislating what churches do in religious services?

 

[The Cadet]

http://www.lbc.co.uk/archbishop-gay-marriage-could-mean-murder-of-african-christians-88469

I have no idea how he makes that conclusion, and the article does not present his argumentation.

Irish examples of discrimination against Christians as a result of "equality" legistlation.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-30341893

That has nothing to do with discrimination. That's christians saying "now that you guys have equality, we're not going to support it any more". And that's their right. They're not being forced into helping, and they're not being forced out - they could just as easily not back out and, yanno, truly embody the concept of "love thy neighbor".

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-32791239

I honestly cannot muster the interest in this one. Which right is being abridged here? They refused to serve a gay couple because they would not support their cause? The line on that one is blurry, but I'll tell you which one isn't: if you're in the public sphere, you serve the public. Discrimination is not okay just because your religion says so.

Hypocritically and worryingly they seem to get away with the same violation of another persons freedoms in refusing to bake traditional Christian marriage cakes

http://www.christianpost.com/news/1...ith-the-message-gay-marriage-is-wrong-131479/

Won't disagree with that one.

 

[mindlight]

And?

The fruit of this legislation is deeply evil and is leading to Christians in emerging world countries being tarred with the decadence associated with Western Christians. These Muslims and others need little excuse to murder Christians but this provides them with one. So Christians are being murdered for the freedoms of a bunch of perverts to shut down catholic adoption agencies and Christian businesses, twist the meaning of marriage into something that is detestable to God and to flaunt the affirmation of law for sin. Why are people partying over this - it is a tragedy not a reason to celebrate!

 

[mindlight]

No. Fear mongering and straw clutching aside, why would you think governments are all of a sudden going to start legislating what churches do in religious services?

Government is for all the people and most countries have constitutional ammendments or laws protecting religious freedoms. However it is clear that in the case of gay marriage these are being trampled on. Religious freedoms need to be guaranteed.

 

[SuperCloud]

In terms of the original subject of this thread--the Irish vote--I'm rather indifferent to it. In a certain sense I'm happy for the people of Ireland that are happy.

If I wanted to be wicked about it I could take glee. I credit conservative Catholics more for the results in the Irish vote than I do liberal Catholics. Back when genetic determinism was still the rage, before epigenetics started to become the new popular kid on the block, conservative Catholics willfully joined arm and arm with liberal Catholics and atheist to attack me online with a KKK-like hatred over my expressed objections to the deterministic traits of homosexuality.

Now, after all this time, with the rise of epigenetics I'm finally being *partially* vindicated.

Whatever the truth is put truth aside for a moment. Fixate just on storytelling alone. And it becomes rather clear than in storytelling the liberals tell the better stories. My mother is a liberal Catholic. She hears atheists, liberal Catholics, and conservative Catholics alike all say homosexuals are "born that way." She reasons out, as she told me, "Why would God create someone gay if being gay was bad"?

The conservatives still to this day don't get it. They think attacking me made them look heroic and loving. And that telling a story of God loving gay people born gay but gay not being bad and God just not wanting gay people to *not* act out gay, because being compelled to do so by no fault of their own, *preciously made that way*, is not bad, but only the acting on it is, would somehow persuade the masses via their politically, politician-like BS talk.

You reap what you sow when you sell your soul. Once upon a time Catholicism stood as the last bastion against biological determinism, even when mocked for producing mixed-race Latin Americans. Now Catholicism even into the Vatican has largely succumb to this once old enemy of man. Catholicism today, as I said in the past, is in practical terms no more than Anglicans.

I do like Pope Francis emphasis on mercy, charity, and not fixating on abortion and homosexuality though. Actually, I like his emphasis on reaching out to the excluded of society. Maybe God did send him to promote this attitude, disposition, and message. I don't know. I guess one will only find out after death.

At any rate... my sympathies are more with the Orthodox Coptic Church. For one, I like that it is smaller and more tight nit. Like a small, close, community. But I'll admit their Spartan discipline scares me. I have no idea how people fast for most of the year.

 

[Armoured]

Government is for all the people and most countries have constitutional ammendments or laws protecting religious freedoms. However it is clear that in the case of gay marriage these are being trampled on. Religious freedoms need to be guaranteed.

Which religious freedom, specifically, do you think gay marriage threatens, exactly?

 

[Cearbhall]

The fruit of this legislation is deeply evil and is leading to Christians in emerging world countries being tarred with the decadence associated with Western Christians.

I'm sorry, which issue do you want to talk about? The article is about the Church of England debating whether to perform religious same-sex ceremonies. I don't know the details of whether this involves legislation (despite currently living in England, woops), since England has a rather unique relationship between church and state, but it doesn't have anything to do with the RCC and Ireland.

 

[Armoured]

I'm sorry, which issue do you want to talk about? The article is about the Church of England debating whether to perform religious same-sex ceremonies. I don't know the details of whether this involves legislation, since England has a rather unique relationship between church and state, but it doesn't have anything to do with the RCC and Ireland.

Uh, one doesn't wish to make assumptions or indulge in stereotyping, but some might think that some of our American friends might be a bit hazy on the difference between England, (and the UK generally) and Ireland.

 

[mindlight]

In terms of the original subject of this thread--the Irish vote--I'm rather indifferent to it. In a certain sense I'm happy for the people of Ireland that are happy.

If I wanted to be wicked about it I could take glee. I credit conservative Catholics more for the results in the Irish vote than I do liberal Catholics. Back when genetic determinism was still the rage, before epigenetics started to become the new popular kid on the block, conservative Catholics willfully joined arm and arm with liberal Catholics and atheist to attack me online with a KKK-like hatred over my expressed objections to the deterministic traits of homosexuality.

Now, after all this time, with the rise of epigenetics I'm finally being *partially* vindicated.

Whatever the truth is put truth aside for a moment. Fixate just on storytelling alone. And it becomes rather clear than in storytelling the liberals tell the better stories. My mother is a liberal Catholic. She hears atheists, liberal Catholics, and conservative Catholics alike all say homosexuals are "born that way." She reasons out, as she told me, "Why would God create someone gay if being gay was bad"?

The conservatives still to this day don't get it. They think attacking me made them look heroic and loving. And that telling a story of God loving gay people born gay but gay not being bad and God just not wanting gay people to *not* act out gay, because being compelled to do so by no fault of their own, *preciously made that way*, is not bad, but only the acting on it is, would somehow persuade the masses via their politically, politician-like BS talk.

You reap what you sow when you sell your soul. Once upon a time Catholicism stood as the last bastion against biological determinism, even when mocked for producing mixed-race Latin Americans. Now Catholicism even into the Vatican has largely succumb to this once old enemy of man. Catholicism today, as I said in the past, is in practical terms no more than Anglicans.

I do like Pope Francis emphasis on mercy, charity, and not fixating on abortion and homosexuality though. Actually, I like his emphasis on reaching out to the excluded of society. Maybe God did send him to promote this attitude, disposition, and message. I don't know. I guess one will only find out after death.

At any rate... my sympathies are more with the Orthodox Coptic Church. For one, I like that it is smaller and more tight nit. Like a small, close, community. But I'll admit their Spartan discipline scares me. I have no idea how people fast for most of the year.

Talk about BS! We are all born with predispositions to sin. Some to murder, some to commit adultery, some to lie and 's some to covet, some to be greedy and some to be gay. But here's the thing we have freewill and we have a Saviour who is willing to help us and get things in proper perspective. We can choose to act on the sin that our genetics or environment have inflicted on our natures or not, we can choose to change or manage our natures depending on the scale of the problem. Maybe those natures are often too deep seated to be changed but we should not pretend that they are somehow to be celebrated when God himself finds them detestable.

We are all equal whether gay or straight! Equally capable of being saved of our sins, equally capable of going to heaven or hell, of equal worth being made in the image of God and of equal potential for a glorious future with God. Definitions of equality that do not include God just do not get it!

 

[mindlight]

I'm sorry, which issue do you want to talk about? The article is about the Church of England debating whether to perform religious same-sex ceremonies. I don't know the details of whether this involves legislation (despite currently living in England, woops), since England has a rather unique relationship between church and state, but it doesn't have anything to do with the RCC and Ireland.

The same trends that have already been observed in Northern Ireland will cross the border in time as they have already crossed the Atlantic. You have your own Christian bakeries that are being persecuted in the USA. Eire will have theirs tommorrow.

 

[Cearbhall]

The fruit of this legislation is deeply evil and is leading to Christians in emerging world countries being tarred with the decadence associated with Western Christians.

I've said the same about the Christian missionaries who go to rural Africa, spread their fundamentalist message without any awareness of the culture they're in, and are then surprised when the community starts murdering gay people.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Talk about BS! We are all born with predispositions to sin. Some to murder, some to commit adultery, some to lie and 's some to covet, some to be greedy and some to be gay.

One of these is not like the others. Can you guess which one?

But here's the thing we have freewill and we have a Saviour who is willing to help us and get things in proper perspective. We can choose to act on the sin that our genetics or environment have inflicted on our natures or not, we can choose to change or manage our natures depending on the scale of the problem. Maybe those natures are often too deep seated to be changed but we should not pretend that they are somehow to be celebrated when God himself finds them detestable.

If God finds it so detestable, then perhaps he shouldn't have "inflicted" them with that nature?

 

[Cearbhall]

However it is clear that in the case of gay marriage these are being trampled on.

Legal marriage has absolutely nothing to do with your concept of religious marriage, nor does it have any power over it. What are you talking about?

Uh, one doesn't wish to make assumptions or indulge in stereotyping, but some might think that some of our American friends might be a bit hazy on the difference between England, (and the UK generally) and Ireland.

I would hope that most people would at least know that the Church of England and Irish Catholicism aren't quite the same thing. But you may be right.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

The same trends that have already been observed in Northern Ireland will cross the border in time as they have already crossed the Atlantic. You have your own Christian bakeries that are being persecuted in the USA. Eire will have theirs tommorrow.

Oh, the poor, poor bakers. Won't anybody think of the bakers?!

 

[Cearbhall]

So Christians are being murdered for the freedoms of a bunch of perverts to shut down catholic adoption agencies and Christian businesses, twist the meaning of marriage into something that is detestable to God and to flaunt the affirmation of law for sin. Why are people partying over this - it is a tragedy not a reason to celebrate!

You're really grasping at straws here, aren't you? I know that people are running out of reasons to keep same-sex marriage illegal, but this is truly desperate. People who want equal rights are not to blame for the sickness of murderers, or else there would be a lot of missionaries with blood on their hands. Should we turn back the clock on women's rights because some women in other countries are burned with acid for having sex?

twist the meaning of marriage into something that is detestable to God

The lack of Christian requirements for legal marriage already makes it detestable to God. It's so interesting that the prospect of me having an atheist marriage (devoid of many Christian values and ideals) suddenly becomes as godly as a Christian marriage when people want to argue against same-sex marriage.

 

[Subduction Zone]

The same trends that have already been observed in Northern Ireland will cross the border in time as they have already crossed the Atlantic. You have your own Christian bakeries that are being persecuted in the USA. Eire will have theirs tommorrow.

When you open a public business that means that you have to do business with the public. If you don't want to do business with the public then don't open a public business. It is really that simple.