Iran state TV says jey was unintentionally shot down.

[Vylo]

Iran state TV says Ukrainian jet was unintentionally shot down

I think a lot of us saw this coming.

Makes me wonder how unintentional it was too.

 

[timewerx]

I can see how they would mistake it as hostile aircraft given the escalating tensions in the region.

There's no reason for USA to meddle with ME affairs. Iran's eyeballing Saudi, NOT USA. Saudi is NOT a nice nation at all. I've lived and worked there. There's no reason to protect Saudi interests unless USA is ONLy in there for the money.

No need to waste innocent lives in there. Sending soldiers who will just die for a worthless cause.

 

[Goonie]

Iran state TV says Ukrainian jet was unintentionally shot down

I think a lot of us saw this coming.

Makes me wonder how unintentional it was too.

It's hard to see it being anything other than unintentional. It could be a terrorist act by an opponent of Iran I suppose, but unlikely.

 

[Bobber]

I'm not sure people are understanding what's been said. Iran has admitted that they did it albeit not intentionally. Javad Sarif Foreign Minister stated,

A sad day. Preliminary conclusions of internal investigation by Armed Forces:

Human error at time of crisis caused by US adventurism led to disaster

Our profound regrets, apologies and condolences to our people, to the families of all victims, and to other affected nations.

Interesting he used U.S. Democratic politicians talking points of blaming the US by saying "US adventurism led to disaster" As for me I'll never believe he dreamed up even saying it this way without being aware of what was being said in the U.S. by Trump's critics. It's just not an ordinary response when one wants to fess up to something. So this crazy and insane charge is being used by them to saved face.....it's the U.S. President's fault.....No mention of their people negating the first rule of engagement and that is to properly identify your target before taking action. As apologies go it comes across as offensive. Should a heart felt apology bring in other parties to condemn? I'd say not. It just admits what YOU DID WRONG and allows others to make those other assessments.

 

[Vylo]

It's hard to see it being anything other than unintentional. It could be a terrorist act by an opponent of Iran I suppose, but unlikely.

How do you unintentionally lock on to a plane with a transponder identifying it? It was a plane leaving Iran too. Hard to make that mistake.

 

[Goonie]

How do you unintentionally lock on to a plane with a transponder identifying it? It was a plane leaving Iran too. Hard to make that mistake.

Tell the Americans when they shot down an Iranian passenger plane in 1988.

 

[wing2000]

As I wrote in another post:

..... it appears the armed forces of Iran are still trying to make excuses:

The passenger plane, a Boeing 737-800, turned toward a sensitive military site belonging to Iran's Revolutionary Guard at an altitude that made it appear to be a hostile aircraft, the General Staff of the Armed Forces said in a statement.

It's highly unlikely experienced airline pilots would have deviated from their flight path just after take off - take off from the country's main international airport which leads to the question: How could an air defense unit not take into account aircraft departing from their own airport? If the flight had been inbound, off-course over sensitive military areas, the mistake would be more understandable. Even in that scenario, one has to ask how they missed the identification from the jet's transponder?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...e21ad8-332d-11ea-a053-dc6d944ba776_story.html

 

[iluvatar5150]

I'm not sure people are understanding what's been said. Iran has admitted that they did it albeit not intentionally. Javad Sarif Foreign Minister stated,

A sad day. Preliminary conclusions of internal investigation by Armed Forces:

Human error at time of crisis caused by US adventurism led to disaster

Our profound regrets, apologies and condolences to our people, to the families of all victims, and to other affected nations.

Interesting he used U.S. Democratic politicians talking points of blaming the US by saying "US adventurism led to disaster" As for me I'll never believe he dreamed up even saying it this way without being aware of what was being said in the U.S. by Trump's critics. It's just not an ordinary response when one wants to fess up to something. So this crazy and insane charge is being used by them to saved face.....it's the U.S. President's fault.....No mention of their people negating the first rule of engagement and that is to properly identify your target before taking action. As apologies go it comes across as offensive. Should a heart felt apology bring in other parties to condemn? I'd say not. It just admits what YOU DID WRONG and allows others to make those other assessments.

Is Iran passing the buck? Sure. But they’re also not wrong (probably). Trump likely helped create the circumstances that led to this accident.

If somebody gets shot and killed during a robbery, then all of the robbers can be hit with murder charges, even if they didn’t pull the trigger or if the deceased is one of the robbers and they’re killed by police. I don’t see this as any different.

How do you unintentionally lock on to a plane with a transponder identifying it? It was a plane leaving Iran too. Hard to make that mistake.

I saw a claim on an otherwise-pretty-reliable engineering forum that the plane’s transponders all shut off 2 minutes into the flight. I haven’t found confirmation of that yet.

 

[Goonie]

Is Iran passing the buck? Sure. But they’re also not wrong (probably). Trump likely helped create the circumstances that led to this accident.

If somebody gets shot and killed during a robbery, then all of the robbers can be hit with murder charges, even if they didn’t pull the trigger or if the deceased is one of the robbers and they’re killed by police. I don’t see this as any different.



I saw a claim on an otherwise-pretty-reliable engineering forum that the plane’s transponders all shut off 2 minutes into the flight. I haven’t found confirmation of that yet.

That might have been the missile turning off the transponder.

 

[wing2000]

Tell the Americans when they shot down an Iranian passenger plane in 1988.

...in that case, "an investigation by the International Civil Aviation Organization, a U.N. agency, found that U.S. military ships in the region did not have the equipment necessary to monitor civilian air-traffic-control frequencies."

....30 plus year later, that appears still to be the case - at least with Iranian air defense systems and I suspect, many others. Are they unable to detect transponder information? The prudent action would have been to close down Tehran to civilian flight operations. Iran was on high alert following their own offensive action.....

One other point, the plane shot down by the USN in 1988 was over the Strait of Hormuz when it was struck by SAM missiles.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...et-near-tehran-mirrors-1988-iran-air-tragedy/

 

[wing2000]

I saw a claim on an otherwise-pretty-reliable engineering forum that the plane’s transponders all shut off 2 minutes into the flight. I haven’t found confirmation of that yet.

...not sure how they would know that. The transponder would not have been turned off by the pilots.

That might have been the missile turning off the transponder.

...my understanding is some missiles have the capability to jam a target aircraft's radar -- I don't know if that would include transponder transmissions or if these particular dated missile systems even have that technology....

 

[Nithavela]

About as despiccable as bombing a wedding.

 

[wing2000]

Interesting he used U.S. Democratic politicians talking points of blaming the US by saying "US adventurism led to disaster"

...yes, it's interesting how you think the rest of the world operates through the prism of American politics.

 

[iluvatar5150]

...not sure how they would know that. The transponder would not have been turned off by the pilots.

That transponder signal would be detectable anywhere in the area, and, I imagine, recorded in flight tracking logs.

Anyways, it seems like there may at least be some truth to that:
Ukrainian flight PS752 crashes shortly after take off from Tehran | Flightradar24 Blog

but that may be normal: ???
How Iran Could Have Mistakenly Shot Down A 737 Airliner

Or perhaps it was 2 minutes in when the missile struck? It seems like 4 minutes is a long time to take to fall to the ground.

Either way, this is interesting:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...dentified-irans-likely-role-crash-flight-752/

 

[renniks]

Morons.

 

[timewerx]

How do you unintentionally lock on to a plane with a transponder identifying it? It was a plane leaving Iran too. Hard to make that mistake.

Explainer: Missile system suspected of bringing down airliner: short range, fast and deadly

In the article, it says ATC have to share tranponder codes with the military.

I personally worked in the government airline industry in the Middle East for two years and all I can say, it's NOT surprising they missed doing such critically important thing.

If mistakes are common in mission critical areas in USA, Middle East is a lot worse. Incompetence in the government is on a Biblical scale.

Saudi is better than Iran because they usually employ Americans and Europeans to work on mission critical areas like ATC.

But Iran can't.... Because nobody wants to work in Iran!!

It's a long story why Arabs working within their own country tends to be incompetent, especially in the very rich and priveleged OPEC nations. The clue lies in word "very privileged" which doesn't give them incentive to work or even do their work well.

 

[wing2000]

That transponder signal would be detectable anywhere in the area, and, I imagine, recorded in flight tracking logs.

Anyways, it seems like there may at least be some truth to that:
Ukrainian flight PS752 crashes shortly after take off from Tehran | Flightradar24 Blog

but that may be normal: ???
How Iran Could Have Mistakenly Shot Down A 737 Airliner

Or perhaps it was 2 minutes in when the missile struck? It seems like 4 minutes is a long time to take to fall to the ground.

Either way, this is interesting:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...dentified-irans-likely-role-crash-flight-752/

Interesting articles.....of note:

Ten flights took off from Tehran over night...on the same night Iran was launching surface to surface missile attacks on bases in Iraq. The FAA had earlier ordered US airlines to stay clear of Iranian air space. The Iranian authorities should have ceased commercial flight operations nationwide until the potential military threat had passed.

Takeaway here: Beware of where you fly during times of potential conflict. Poorly trained air defense crews may shoot first and ask questions later....

 

[timewerx]

...not sure how they would know that. The transponder would not have been turned off by the pilots.

Have you thought about the fact military aircraft have transponders too that can reply the same type of codes as civilian transponder?

How about a hostile military aircraft using civilian transponder codes to enter enemy airspace without getting shot at?

For the paranoid Iranian army, they could certainly assume even American military aircraft might pass themselves off as civilian aircraft by using civilian transponder codes.

 

[Vylo]

Tell the Americans when they shot down an Iranian passenger plane in 1988.

I mean, that is kind of the point. People didnt buy it when we did it.

 

[Nithavela]

Is Iran passing the buck? Sure. But they’re also not wrong (probably). Trump likely helped create the circumstances that led to this accident.

If somebody gets shot and killed during a robbery, then all of the robbers can be hit with murder charges, even if they didn’t pull the trigger or if the deceased is one of the robbers and they’re killed by police.

One of the dumber american laws.