Intimacy issues w/my wife. Need advice!

[enlightenMe]

I tried to keep this as G rated as possible and have posted it elsewhere but have had no responses. I could really use some help on this one.


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I can't help but think that there is something wrong with me. Let me give a little background and then I will share my confusion with you.

BACKGROUND
My wife and I started dating in '97 and we had a very good relationship. Sure we had our fights but we always got over them. The thing I appreciated the most about my wife was the fact that she spoke her mind. Even if it ticked me off she said what she had to say, we argued and then we got over it. We had a really good relationship. Even the sex was good. She was semi-willing to try new things but I never tried to force her into doing anything that she was uncomfortable with. However, one thing that she absolutely refuses to do is talk about sex. She always seemed to enjoy it but I could tell something was missing. She never reached her climax. I have asked and asked what I could do to make it better. I was willing to try anything. I mean anything. But she would never tell me what she liked. She was so uncomfortable talking about it.

Anyways, we got married in 2000 and the sex became less and less frequent. Had a child in '03 and our intimacy came to a dead stop. When our child was conceived I could name the exact day that it happened because that day was the only option in a four month span.

Now, I can't blame all of this on her. After we were together for a while (cant remember exactly how long into relationship maybe in '99) I became comfortable with her. Too comfortable. I began focussing on my job (as I had just started a new company) and my schooling (still in college). We grew farther and farther apart as she was working 50+ hours a week.

Over the course of the next few years I pushed her away. She wanted to cuddle - I said NO. She wanted to make love - I said NO. The only thing I can attribute my actions to is childish ignorance. I have a beautiful lady wanting to be close to me and I discard this gift as if it was the wrapper of a $0.50 candy bar. What was I thinking?

Well she stuck with me and I guess she toughened up. She stopped trying for intimacy. It was around 2002 when I started wanting more out of our relationship. Again my ignorance shows up and I expect her to just be able to twist the love nozzle back to the on position and things would be back to the way they used to be. When I finally do start trying she is very cold and very distant. She lets me know that I did this to myself and she is scared if she opens up again she will just get hurt all over again.

So for the past couple of years I've been trying a lot harder. I've remembered holidays, birthdays and anniversaries. I tell her that I love her at least five times a day and I try my best to show her that I do. I help with our child. I have made a sincere attempt to get close to her again. I knew this would not be an overnight task but I feel that I've been patient.

CURRENT QUESTION/DILEMA

Over the past few weeks I've made a sincere attempt to initiate intimacy with my wife. Evertime, (i'll list a few examples later) my attempt is met with sarcastic comments and an attitude that totally turns me off. I'll give you two examples of this so you can see what I'm doing wrong and how I can fix it.

Number 1
We were going to go out with some friends later that evening and my wife had taken our child and gone swimming with a friend. She was going to drop our kid off with my mom and come home to relax for a while before going out. Shortly before she got home I was preparing. I had cleaned most of the house and put her favorite potpouri on the stove. I had picked some wildflowers and made a trail of them from the outside door to the bedroom door. In the bedroom was a room adorned with scented candles (more than 20) and a freshly made bed. I was also running her a bubble bath. When she arrived home (seemingly refreshed) she looked down and said "Who dropped the flowers?" She made her way into the living room and saw that they continued into the hall then she glanced over at me and said "You think you are going to get some don't you? I didn't say anything even though this bothered me. She took a few more steps and made a similar comment about getting some (even though she swears that she only said it once). She opened the bedroom door, saw the candles and said "You think you're slick don't you?" I bit my tounge again. I went up behind her, wrapped my arms around her hips and started kissing her on the neck. She pushed off and said she needed to use the restroom. Fine! After about five minutes I hear her saying something to the effect of it being her time of the month. Nothing else was needed. If it wasn't dead already - That killed it - DEAD!!!!

Afterwards when I told her how I felt she said "What did you expect? Me just to jump in the bed and have sex with you! That is no different that you saying to me 'Lets do it!'." Honestly, I expected her to come to me and hug and kiss me. Without saying a word; I expected us to be in the bed (w/in a matter of seconds) enjoying each other.

Number 2
10:30 PM Wife is lying in bed so I get under the covers. Have small talk while I cuddle up to her. I rub her back and neck and start to kiss her neck and shoulder. No response; so I ask if she is too tired and she says she is. I hold her a little longer, kiss her goodnight and roll over so she can sleep. 45 minutes later both of us are still awake, she rolls over and puts her leg on top of me in a hinting manner. I try to kiss her but she turns her head b/c she don't like to kiss. I kiss her neck and rub her back but this tickles. I know she don't like me to move directly to the private areas but she won't let me touch anywhere else. I kiss her breasts and rub her crotch. She says I'm not doing her breasts right, grabs them and won't let me touch them again. Still rubbing although she doesn't seem to enjoy it in the least. I ask her to tell me what to do. She states "I can't tell you what I like, I can only tell you what I dont like." Fine! I've tried everything that she used to like (that she will let me do to her) so I tell her that I will do anything if she would just tell me what it is. She looks at me like I just slapped her and called her a harlot. At this point I'm just dying to do something right (and to give her one ounce of pleasure) so I reach for her panties to begin intercourse. She gives me the same look and informs me that she has to use the bathroom. Once again - DEAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I broke down to tears this time. I tried to tell her how I felt and she told me that she was worried about me. SHE THINKS I'M CRAZY!!

When I try to talk to her about it she gets very defensive. She says that I'm making too much of it. I MISS THE INTIMACY. I know that our passion of our dating days is gone but is passionate love making once a week too much? I'd be happy for now with just once a month. If I kept my mouth shut I could have sex with her probably a couple times a week but if I just wanted to get off I'd fly solo. I want it to be where both of us try desperately to please each other. I want the gazing into each other's eyes and the passionate kissing.

This has helped just getting this out of my head and onto the keyboard. But basically I want your opinions on the following:

1) Are my expectations reasonable?
2) Am I being too selfish? or making too much of this?
3) What can I do to help my situation?
4) What will hinder or hurt my cause?
5) Any other opinions you have to offer.
6) WHAT AM I DOING WRONG?
7) Please pray for me and my wife!!!!!

Thx - eM

 

[sarah marie]

1) Are my expectations reasonable?

Yes, it is reasonable for a husband or wife to want to spend physically intimate time with each other.

2) Am I being too selfish? or making too much of this?

No, you are not being selfish. It's extremely frustrating and painful to be rejected by our beloved.

3) What can I do to help my situation?

Continue to focus on your wife's needs and nurture the relationship in the other areas.

Take all of the energy and time you've been spending on trying to persuade your wife to open up to you physically and use it to spend that time with God. Start by thanking him and praising him. Pray for healing for your wife and ask God to soften her heart. Lay your problem and the pain before him. Tell him how much you need him to sustain and strengthen you, while He attends to your wife. Let him know that you are willing to receive his instruction and will not question it, even if it seems to you to be unrelated to the problem at hand. Let him know you are willing to receive his full instruction on the husband He wants you to be. Close your prayer, acknowledging his authority in your life and over your marriage and accepting his will for both. Pray this in Jesus' name. Wait! You're not done yet! Be still and quiet for a time. Give God a chance to speak. Don't run off so fast. Just quiet your mind for a while and stay in his presence. If God doesn't choose this time to speak to you, don't worry or be disappointed. It doesn't mean you didn't pray right or anything else was wrong. What I'm suggesting isn't some formula. I'm not even saying to follow it word for word. God speaks when HE chooses and in the way that He chooses. You are just putting yourself in a position where it is easier to receive him.

4) What will hinder or hurt my cause?

Continuing to appeal your cause to your wife. Appeal to God. He has more power to speak directly to her heart. He also has the power to heal her.

5) Any other opinions you have to offer.

I'm always full of opinions. What you need is for God to intervene and that starts with you.

6) WHAT AM I DOING WRONG?

I know you provided two detailed examples, but noone here will be able to tell you exactly what the problem is. I'm sure we could all come up with little and big things you could try. Things that you could do that may or may not help. One thing I do know is that God can always get right to the heart of the matter. He won't force your wife to respond to him, but you can choose to seek him, rely on him and respond to him. He can give you the strength to endure and the wise counsel you need.

7) Please pray for me and my wife!!!!!

praying for both of you.

 

[cazza]

I am praying for you both as well.

It is a credit to you that you can share there deeply personal feelings openly. Most men unfortunately just walk away and don't deal.

Men are extremely physical creatures and women tend to be emotional based in my experience. I feel that if you ease up on worrying about the physical relationship and focus on being intimate in other ways such as holding hands, cuddles, dating, doing common interests together, talk about and remind each other how you felt early in your relationship, then the physical will come naturaly later.

God can work wonders in yours and your wifes hearts, offer the problem up to Him and ask for the much needed healing with your relationship.

I will keep praying for you both

 

[IslandBreeze]

1) Are my expectations reasonable?

Yes

2) Am I being too selfish? or making too much of this?

No, but I don't think you're going about this in the right way.

3) What can I do to help my situation?

STOP expecting sex right off the bat. You've rejected your wife time and time again. Hopping into bed isn't going to change her hurt. You need to love her and be affectionate with her (without expecting anything in return) and show her that you're sorry.

4) What will hinder or hurt my cause?

Doing things with the thought of getting something in return. Giving is not about receiving. It's about giving unconditionally, regardless of whether something is given back or not.

[6) WHAT AM I DOING WRONG?[/QUOTE]
I've already said what I think you're doing wrong.

7) Please pray for me and my wife!!!!!

Will do.

 

[RosanneG]

1) Are my expectations reasonable?
In a perfect world, with a perfect track record, yes. But it sounds to me like deep down, your wife is still hurting from when you pushed her away.

2) Am I being too selfish? or making too much of this?
I would say that from your wife's perspective, it probably appears to be motivated out of selfish desires. I hate it when my husband starts being nice to me (after ignoring me all day, for example) in order to "get some".
3) What can I do to help my situation?
Maybe stop pushing for sex. Give her bits of affection and leave it at that. At night, snuggle with her, tell her you love her, and say goodnight. You might find that after you say goodnight, she initiates it.

4) What will hinder or hurt my cause?

If she thinks you're just being nice to her/touching her because you're horny, you'll never get past her wall.

5) Any other opinions you have to offer.
Nope.

7) Please pray for me and my wife!!!!!
You got it.

-rosanne

 

[Mr.Cheese]

Love her and show her affection simply because she is your wife, the air you breathe.
Adore her just because and without expectation.

It sounds like she has something to work through, or that she went into this deal with something to work through even from when you were dating.

Hang in there and never give up.

 

[Svt4Him]

Have either of you had an affair? And I don't mean this to accuse, so if not, don't go looking for signs.

 

[kyteroo]

I highly recommend marriage counseling with a Christian pastor. I would also highly recommend your wife gets personal counseling as well, separate from the marraige counseling. I may be wrong here, but it seems like that something from her past is bothering her. She may also be going through a type of post-partum depression. Only a therapist can properly determine this. This is why I recommend getting one.

I would start, as the husband, changing some of the rules around the house [if you don't do this already]:

1. start a FAMILY bible study that is done every night. (or at least once a week rather consistently). This should include a song or to, prayer, and bible verses. Have family members submit a song they would like to sing and then sing it. Have every family member say a prayer every time you have a bible study. Both begin and end the bible study with prayer.

2. ask your wife if she would mind doing a bible study with you, and then pick a bible study that is strictly written for marriage couples. Pick one that does NOT deal with sex issues through out. Try for one that puts God first in the marriage. The intimate issues bible study needs to come later, after she has dealt with some issues that are bothering her - which may be post-partum depression, or a past she has blocked out and now has remembered.

3. ALWAYS be the first to ask for forgiveness. [this one is for you alone, although it would be good if all believers were to do this. We just can't force this rule on other people.] My Rabbi, a Messianic believer, taught me that no matter who did what to you that was wrong, even if its is obvious to the whole world that you were wronged, always be the first to ask that person who wronged you for forgiveness. This opens the door for that person to ask for forgiveness as well. If the person doesn't ask, then grace them with blessings. He actually gave us a prayer to use to pray blessing upon the person who has done something wrong to you. I lost the sheet with the prayer on. However, I thought the idea was awesome!

4. I'd recommend starting you day with prayer before your feet even touch the floor, before you even get out of bed.

5. Thank the Lord for every little thing during the day, both good and bad things. Make the Lord so first in your life that his light and glory radiates out of you. Change your focus from what your wife is not giving you to what the Lord can give you and what you can give the Lord. [prayer, praise, worship].

6. Okay, now for the controversial rule: Pray the Sh'ma - Deuteronomy 6:4-9 - daily. Also, pray the meaning of those verse daily. Pray them into you. These verses ask you to speak of the Lord your God with every cell in your body and to speak of the Lord and His ways through out the day. "What Would Jesus Do?" becomes a question that is asked through out the day. Jesus becomes the center of your life. In verse 8, it says "they shall be as frontlet bands between your eyes" - this means that your world vision, how you look at life is to be through God's eyes instead of man's eyes. "And you shall wrap them as a sign upon your hand" means that every little thing you do should be to the glory of God and should glorify Him. Everything we do should honor God's way of life. Obviously, we can't be perfect in this area. But we can try to do this a little better.

[The reason why I call this the controversial rule is because every Christian I have talked to insist upon quoting Mathew when I say my favorite verse is "Thou shalt love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength." They add quickly "and with all your mind." I then tell them that it is found in Deuteronomy. They then correct me and say, no it is found in Mathew. I say that you added the Matthew version because the Deuteronomy version has been ignored by the church for centuries and is not understood. In Jewish thought, heart and mind is the same thing. Matthew separated heart and mind because Jesus knew that heart would not be concidered the same as mind by a non-Jew. And furthermore, many Christians at Northwestern College I have spoken to, thinks that it is legalistic to pray the Sh'ma. Actually, it is good for us to pray the bible into us. All of the bible. ]

 

[phantom_309]

Try rubbing her neck or feet.......... draw a bath but dont expect a thing. Do it because you love her. It may not seem fair but someone has to start somewhere. let it be you. Woooooo her and try the dating thing all over. Do your best to think of her first and you second. leave the past alone and build on what you have today. good luck and do all you can because she is the Angel in your life

 

[bliz]

I think RosanneG is right on the money!

Are your expectations reasonable? Which expectations are we talking about? The expectation that if you create a romantic setting (which you certainly did!) that you will get sex? No, given the history the two of you have had, it is not an reasonable expectation.

The expectation that a husband and a wife should share and enjoy intimacy? Yes, that one is reasonabe.... but you will be the first to admit that things have happened, so it's going to take some time and effort to get back to that.

Selfish? Frankly, I don't know of anyone, man or woman, who is not selfish about their own sexual desires. Wanting sex whenever you want it is selfish.

what to do?... I am with RosanneG - stop pushing for sex! Every hug you give her she fears is the first step toward you "getting some". She does not see that hug as affection or caring, she cannot enjoy it becasue she knows what you are gunning for. You think: "Can't I just hug my wife?" but you don't want to just hug your wife!

The two of you need counseling. You admit to having rejected her in the past. Now that you have decided to stop doing that, she is not going to be instantly available to you again. Men and women are different sexually. For women, sex is much more closely attached to their emotions for someone than their physical desire. You wounded her deeply, and layer upon layer of scar tissue has grown up over that wound and you want to go right back to how things were pre-wound. Not going to happen. I suspect that your wife is even angrier than she knows she is. She needs to sort all of that out and deal with it.

You cannot just leave the past behind and forget about it. You cannot build a new building on a pile of rubble. The rubble must be cleaned away and the foundation stones uncovered or relaid and then you can begin to rebuild together.

Have you ever apologized to her for the times you rejected her? Have you repented to her for that sin? (I'm sure you wife has things she needs to repent of as well, but we're talking about you! Counseling with a Christian counselor can help both of you sort things out and know how to proceed.

A woman who has trouble climaxing (and many do!) often feels like a failure or as if something is wrong with her. 25 - 30% of women do not and cannot climax through intercourse alone. Often Christian women lack the vocabulary to express what they need and want. Add to that, movies show strangers jumping into bed with each other, and without any conversation (stop, you're pulling my hair... oh, yeah, that's great... please! do that more!) they have simultaneous orgasams! Funniest scenes on film! But women and men believe it's true and they are frustrated and surprised when it's not like that for them.

Back off, be patient and get counseling. At the core, Im sure your wife wants a warm, physical and emotional relationship with you, but it is going to take some work and time to get there.

 

[E-beth]

I think that you are doing the right thing in trying to make her feel loved and by trying to show her romance. Your attempts are fine, but it might be to her like trying to put a band-aid on a hemorrage.

When a woman can't climax, sex isn't all that appealing to her. Especially for a mom, she probably feels her time is better served with sleep. I applaud you for helping out with your kid and by helping keep up the house. Just don't do it simply because you want "paid back."

It sounds to me like she is getting some sort of revenge for your treatment ofher previously. She is definitely holding it against you. And if she won't talk to you, try to get her to talk to someone, like a therapist. It is evident you guys need outside help.

In my experience, problems in the bedroom start in other parts of the marriage. Once you discover them and work them through, things might start turning around.

I would suggest a "date night" or two. Go out and do something fun, or sit at home and watch a movie. But make it clear that you will not be having sex, no matter what. Just try to gain some intimacy without any physical contact. Just let her know you love her no matter what.

 

[WolfGate]

Others have said it in good words, and my personal experience agrees. There is something deeper than just intimacy that you two need to resolve, and a good christian counselor may be the right path.

FWIW, my wife and I hit our rough spot after 8 years of marriage due to my putting work and civic causes ahead of our marriage. We went months without intimacy as well. However, once we worked through the real issue, the intimacy came back within a few months. Now, after 15 years of marriage, our entire relationship is better than it ever was - even as newlyweds.

Prayer said.

 

[Xul]

Just an Idea, but how about doing all the crazy romantic things that you abviously have a talent for but do it all as if you were not married. That is to say, treat her like a virgin, not a wife. Maybe that will work. I've done that before with my wife when she's been really tense and we both feel better about it afterward. I don't feel like I pressured her and she doesn't feel pressured. So try doing the romantic things again and if she doesn't respond with lovemaking, tell her it's ok and you understand. Then maybe you'll start to find out what some of the issues are.

One thing though, I definitely think it is extremely important that a couple be able to talk about sex openly and without inhibition. It creates an enormous amount of trust when you can discuss such intimate matters with your spouse!

Will be praying for you

 

[49erfan]

Keep trying the romantic stuff. Do the flowers and bath thing again, but this time just go away once she is in the house. Go work on something or watch a game. Do this many times over the next several weeks. When she realizes that you are being kind and romantic without having an expectation of sex, she will feel loved by you and might actually want to be close to you.

Also read these two books: "1001 Ways to Be Romantic" by Godek and "Sheet Music" by Leman. After a while (and several sexual encounters) share the "Sheet Music" book with her.

Most of all remember: Romance does NOT equal sex.

 

[Funkmd]

Great stuff in here.
sarah marie as always, gets my applause.

 

[Funkmd]

HAHAHAHA!

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to sarah marie again.

 

[sarah marie]

 

[desi]

Sorry I'm late.

This has helped just getting this out of my head and onto the keyboard. But basically I want your opinions on the following:
3) What can I do to help my situation?

Take your wife two aspirins and a glass of water and tell her they are for her. When she says ***? say its for her headache or PMS. When she says she hasn't been experiencing either grap her hand and say she's all out of excuses so lets go...

If that fails take her out to a semi-dangerous place like the tough part of town. Danger can cause excitement. When I was a teen I took my dates to the dollar movies in the bad part of town, it was cheaper and the love was tangible .

4) What will hinder or hurt my cause?

Being undecisive or reliant on her approval will hurt, being decisive, self confident and slightly unpredictable will help. Unpredictable means coming home late, cancelling or changing plans, or doing things out of the ordinary.

5) Any other opinions you have to offer.

Seldom take what she says about sex at face value. Women are run by mood, they often say whatever they do to justify their mood. Control the mood...

6) WHAT AM I DOING WRONG?

You're working too hard at it in the wrong directions.

7) Please pray for me and my wife!!!!!

You got it.

 

[sarah marie]

I am so very thankful for my husband. My husband is so very deserving of the respect I pay him. He lives with me in kindness and understanding and honors me as a sister in Christ, having the same inheritance as he does in God's gift of eternal life. His prayers are not hindered by his treatment of me, as is evidenced in the fruits that have come forth through his submission to God. I am grateful for my husband's submission to God. God has greatly blessed me through my husband.