Indian Reserves?

[ronmathison]

Isn't the concept of Indian Reserves, RACIST,

towards non (native) indians ?

(how would you feel about Caucasian Reserves? )

 

[mont974x4]

They started out racist towards Indians. Now they serve little more than to keep them down and create division. I think they should be done away with.

Of course I'm against all divisive labels. We are Americans or not. We are Christians or we are not.

 

[ROGER459]

Most of you do not know, yet the USA made over 2000-Treaties with Indian Tribes! To date they have honored only about 10%!

WHERE you live, was once INDIAN TERRITORY stolen by the White [European] man.

An INDIAN can only get Government Asistence if he is ONE QUARTER INDIAN! Any more than that, and HE or She is DISQUALIFIED!

YET, a Hispanic of Black, can calim their RACE CARD, being ANY PERCENTACE!

YES, my tribe had their Lands Stolen, SO WHAT IS NEW.....?

And besides, what has this to DO WITH CHRISTIANITY OR DOCTRINE? ? ?

Thanks, Roger459

 

[ledzeppelin]

They started out racist towards Indians. Now they serve little more than to keep them down and create division. I think they should be done away with.

It creates racism. As a non-native, I would be afraid to visit an indian reservation.

 

[GraceLikeRainFallsDown]

Most of you do not know, yet the USA made over 2000-Treaties with Indian Tribes! To date they have honored only about 10%!

WHERE you live, was once INDIAN TERRITORY stolen by the White [European] man.

An INDIAN can only get Government Asistence if he is ONE QUARTER INDIAN! Any more than that, and HE or She is DISQUALIFIED!
YET, a Hispanic of Black, can calim their RACE CARD, being ANY PERCENTACE!

[/SIZE]

Thanks, Roger459

Was the land stolen or lost in war? How is the situation different then how the US obtained land from Mexico? Or how the boundaries of Europe/Asia were established. Americans battled and won the land.

I have never heard that only people with Indian ancestry of under 1/4 percent could get assistance. I do not believe this statement without proof. They receive the reservation land don't they. That is a huge assistance. I know people who have a speck of Indian blood in them and have gotten perks from the government. Even though they do not care about that part of their heritage at all. (not saying this is all . . just personal situations I know of. . . I know many are very proud of their heritage and should be.)

I do not feel that anyone should "claim the race card" as you wrote in any situation. This only causes bitterness and does not help anyone. We should all be equals inthe governments eyes.

I do not like the idea of Indian Reservations because I do believe that it creates a division between the people. I think it only holds the Indian people back from successfully integrating into our society. But, I guess there are some that do not want to or they would leave the reservation.

I would love to see all races live as brothers. I do not feel that allowing a separate exclusive society in pockets of America helps unite us all. (All the casinos are becoming a problem as well.)

American's should stop fighting one another. It is a country that anyone who is willing to work hard can prosper in. My dad grew up on welfare living in a single parent home of an immigrant working from age ten to support the family. He has was able to retire with a wonderful and comfortable life. He could have been bitter due to his circumstances which were not pleasant. But, instead he focussed on goals and worked hard to achienve them. I think that attitude would better serve the Native American people over the attitude of the government stole my land years ago and I want them to give me stuff now for it.

I also do not know what this has to do with doctrine.

 

[bithiah2]

north america was stolen from the indiginous people and they were "given" a portion of the land for their own use along with plenty of alcohol. it actually belongs to them, along with that in the united states, the africans were brought here and exploited to make it prosper. the whole concept is racist and fascist towards all who have been exploited. it is in all of the true history books although there are many who have tried to supress this information.
but the Almighty is making them pay if they didn't repent.

bithiah2

 

[bithiah2]

Most of you do not know, yet the USA made over 2000-Treaties with Indian Tribes! To date they have honored only about 10%!

WHERE you live, was once INDIAN TERRITORY stolen by the White [European] man.

An INDIAN can only get Government Asistence if he is ONE QUARTER INDIAN! Any more than that, and HE or She is DISQUALIFIED!

YET, a Hispanic of Black, can calim their RACE CARD, being ANY PERCENTACE!

YES, my tribe had their Lands Stolen, SO WHAT IS NEW.....?

And besides, what has this to DO WITH CHRISTIANITY OR DOCTRINE? ? ?

Thanks, Roger459

please don't use the term 'race card'
i am of african descent and i whether i 'claim' it or not i cannot hide who i am. i don't know about other races but historically, if a person had any percentage of black ancestry they were considered black, whether they wanted to or not. particularly in the USA. the indigenous people have always been taken out of the land to make room for others who came to 'save' them. it is the same thing in the caribbean with the caribs and the arawaks who are now extinct. you cannot find a carib or an arawak indian anywhere because they were all taken out. i know because they are my ancestors also.
i realize that this can become a very personal thing and i am not trying to fight with anyone. the devil has done a good job of keeping one group of people against another and keeping the hatorade pouring freely.
blessings to you
bithiah2

let's stop the hate!

 

[GraceLikeRainFallsDown]

let's stop the hate!

 

[Godslilgurlalways]

agreed:O

 

[Starcrystal]

Most of you do not know, yet the USA made over 2000-Treaties with Indian Tribes! To date they have honored only about 10%!

WHERE you live, was once INDIAN TERRITORY stolen by the White [European] man.

An INDIAN can only get Government Asistence if he is ONE QUARTER INDIAN! Any more than that, and HE or She is DISQUALIFIED!

YET, a Hispanic of Black, can calim their RACE CARD, being ANY PERCENTACE!

YES, my tribe had their Lands Stolen, SO WHAT IS NEW.....?

And besides, what has this to DO WITH CHRISTIANITY OR DOCTRINE? ? ?

Thanks, Roger459

Hoka Hey! 10% were honored..... hmmm, which ones?

Ledzeppelin,
It creates racism. As a non-native, I would be afraid to visit an indian reservation.

Depends which rez or reserve. (It's reservation in US and reserve in Canada by the way. but same thing) Also depends on how you conduct yourself. I knew of a full blooded white man who got stranded on Rosebud (where I once lived a few months) and a Lakota family took him in for 8 months. They believe as part of their spiritual culture they should take in strangers, feed the hungry, clothe the naked, visit the sick. They knew that before any missionary ever quoted Matthew 25 to them.....

But on some Rez's you'd be in trouble even if you were native of another tribe. The Crow rez and Pine Ridge can be rough. Rosebud is also rough and has many teenage gangs and feral dogs. I'm not even Lakota (Cherokee with some old old ties to lakota) and I had no problems there. I befriended the feral dogs so I had a wolf pack walk with me everywhere, and I was accepted as a brother by a powerful family so when the gangs walked by with their baseball bats and golf clubs and knives they said "Hey, whaz happenin?"

Like I said, it depends on the rez and how you conduct yourself.

GraceLikeRainFallsDown,

Was the land stolen or lost in war? How is the situation different then how the US obtained land from Mexico? Or how the boundaries of Europe/Asia were established. Americans battled and won the land.

Europeans attacked, invaded, pillaged, raped, burned, cut, shot, stole..... they purposely sent diseases among the tribes with infected smallpox blankets. they were oppressors that were on equal terms with what the Nazi's did to the Jews, the Japanese did in China, or what Stalin did to his own people in Russia. O-P-P-R-E-S-S.
It was not of God. manifest destiny is a false doctrine of suppression and an excuse for violence against fellow people.

 

[MercuryAndy]

Isn't the concept of Indian Reserves, RACIST,

towards non (native) indians ?

(how would you feel about Caucasian Reserves? )

would you rather they had nothing at all?

 

[Sketcher]

I figure those reserves are the least we can give them, with the treaties we signed and all. Unless they're being used as a point to distribute drugs to people off the reservations, I see no reason to shut em down.

 

[GraceLikeRainFallsDown]

Europeans attacked, invaded, pillaged, raped, burned, cut, shot, stole..... they purposely sent diseases among the tribes with infected smallpox blankets. they were oppressors that were on equal terms with what the Nazi's did to the Jews, the Japanese did in China, or what Stalin did to his own people in Russia. O-P-P-R-E-S-S.
It was not of God. manifest destiny is a false doctrine of suppression and an excuse for violence against fellow people.

They definitely did horrible things to the Native American Indians. I agree.

Since we agree on that, my question is now at what point do the Native Americans forgive the sins of the people of the past and move on with their lives? I personally did nothing to their people and dispise the fact that they were treated so badly. I do not think any amount of money or things given to the current Native Americans can make up for the sins that were done to their ancestors.

My understanding of the reservations here is that they either have casinos or live in poverty. (This may be wrong. I do not want to insult anyone. Please just correct me if incorrect.)

Wouldn't it be better for the people to educate them the same as the other kids in the country and teach them how to succeed in modern culture. I do not want them to lose their heritage. I just think that reality is . . . .they would be better off living as brothers with all society instead of just with their people.

 

[ranyhyn]

I have a little bit of Cherokee on my mom's side of the family. I don't really know that much about history between the European settlers and the native Americans.

I just remember "The Trail of Tears" from history class. To take the people out of their native lands and force them to move to reservations seems like a terrible thing. Could you imaine that happening today? Going in to a major city and singling out a single race or group of people and actually forcing them out to somewhere else and telling them that's where they have to go.

As for the casinos and such...I used to go play bingo with my mom at a Miccosukee reservation casino. They've built it up since then and they now have all kinds of stuff there. Stayed at their hotel one night...pretty nice. I now live in central Georgia and the Ocmulgee National Monument isn't too far from me. Might have to find time to go visit that one of these days and see the Indian mounds there...

 

[Sketcher]

European countries such as England and France have done a fairly good job of letting past invasions go. By this, I mean before the French, there were the Romans, and before the Romans, there were the Gauls. Do the French today have any claim to France? And what about England: Before the Normans were the Saxons, before them the Angles and Britons, before them more Celtic tribes. Do the English have any claim to England? Seriously.

 

[cavymom]

I think it only holds the Indian people back from successfully integrating into our society. But, I guess there are some that do not want to or they would leave the reservation.

I figure those reserves are the least we can give them, with the treaties we signed and all. Unless they're being used as a point to distribute drugs to people off the reservations, I see no reason to shut em down.

First of all, Native American People do not want to be "integrated" into a society that is not thier own. They want to be who they are... not pretend to be caucasian. They have thier own culture. The europeans that first came in decided that they did not like Indians and they created laws to "integrate" native peoples into acting like europeans... funny how the europeans came to areas populated by Natives and imposed thier culture but threw other cultures away like garbage.

Secondly, it sounds really strange that reservations are being likened to "Grow-ops" and "Drug distribution" areas. Most drug activities happen in inner cities, check your newpapers.

If you were to discuss how forced christianity has affected Native populations it might be relevant... however posting a forum that seems to only bring out stereotypes and does not discuss Christian Issues is in very poor taste.

 

[Sketcher]

First of all, Native American People do not want to be "integrated" into a society that is not thier own. They want to be who they are... not pretend to be caucasian. They have thier own culture. The europeans that first came in decided that they did not like Indians and they created laws to "integrate" native peoples into acting like europeans... funny how the europeans came to areas populated by Natives and imposed thier culture but threw other cultures away like garbage.

Secondly, it sounds really strange that reservations are being likened to "Grow-ops" and "Drug distribution" areas. Most drug activities happen in inner cities, check your newpapers.

If you were to discuss how forced christianity has affected Native populations it might be relevant... however posting a forum that seems to only bring out stereotypes and does not discuss Christian Issues is in very poor taste.

I brought up the drugs because they are legal on the reservations. If someone were to take advantage of that and push drugs on the surrounding areas outside the reservation, he shouldn't be able to hide within the reservation. Why are you assuming that I'm just glossing over the drug problem in the inner cities? This discussion isn't about drugs, it's about Indian reservations.

 

[ROGER459]

BUT.... IT SEEMS......

All have missed the Point?

The NATION ISRAEL, are the ONLY ONES, To Whom GOD GAVE LAND......!

All other nations and peoples and lands have been taken or given by War or Politics!

Thanks, Roger459

 

[Starcrystal]

They definitely did horrible things to the Native American Indians. I agree.

Since we agree on that, my question is now at what point do the Native Americans forgive the sins of the people of the past and move on with their lives? I personally did nothing to their people and dispise the fact that they were treated so badly. I do not think any amount of money or things given to the current Native Americans can make up for the sins that were done to their ancestors.

My understanding of the reservations here is that they either have casinos or live in poverty. (This may be wrong. I do not want to insult anyone. Please just correct me if incorrect.)

Wouldn't it be better for the people to educate them the same as the other kids in the country and teach them how to succeed in modern culture. I do not want them to lose their heritage. I just think that reality is . . . .they would be better off living as brothers with all society instead of just with their people.

Good, good
many have forgiven. I have but also have not forgotten, so when I see injustice today I will speak up on it. On Rosebud and Pine Ridge (In South Dakota) they still have prejudice against the Crow of Montana. This goes back to when they were enemies and the US Army used Crow Scouts to locate Crazy Horses bands which of course led to Custer's 7th calvary getting annihalated.
But in 1998 I was still hearing terrible judgments against the Crow by some of the (non-christian) traditionalist Lakota.

Your understanding of the reservations is not too far off. But just because a rez has a casino does not mean the entire tribe is well off. Rosebud has a casino, and there are also some very well to do people in the Tribal government and among casino owners and staff, as well as local business owners. They make up something like 30% of the population. The other 70%. Poor. Unemployed. Some houses falling apart with no water or electricity. Alcoholism is also around 70% I hear, and from being there I believe it. They also drink Lysol and hair spray when they can't afford regular alcohol.
Many drive ancient cars that are 60s and 70s models, if they are fortunate enough to even own a car at all.
So, as you see, the Casinos do not guarantee a better life for the whole tribe.

As far as them living within society, many do! Many Lakota live in Rapid City, which is about 100 miles from the rez. But some will always stay on the rez because its their ancestral land, and they see it as their own nation. In a sense it is a nation within a nation and often they have different government.
Now in some cases like in Oklahoma the reservations are not ancestral lands but are places the US government moved the Natives to. But I know many reservations are the actual ancestral homeland of the tribes. And they do have opportunities we on the outside don't have. Cheap housing, free medical, free food from multiple sources, sometimes free money.... the council gave us $20 - $50 just for gas when we needed to get a woman into Rapid City for medical treatments a couple times. Try going to your state capitol and getting that just by asking! And yes, that "free" money probably came from the casino profits since we were not the only ones to get such donations from the tribal govt.

 

[Starcrystal]

I brought up the drugs because they are legal on the reservations. If someone were to take advantage of that and push drugs on the surrounding areas outside the reservation, he shouldn't be able to hide within the reservation. Why are you assuming that I'm just glossing over the drug problem in the inner cities? This discussion isn't about drugs, it's about Indian reservations.

Drugs are NOT legal on the most reservations! They have laws against drugs. they put people in the tribal jail for drugs.
However, there is a little truth behind such speculation. Because tribal government is at odds with the US govt, drug trafficers can find refuge, and the Feds have to go in and contend with the tribal ordinances. And although drug trafficing is illegal on the rez, the enforcement is more difficult. Problem is that the inner city gang culture - yes, the type promulgated by gangsta rap music, has been adapted by many native youth and unfortunately that includes the drug culture.
But back to your original statement : Drugs are NOT legal on reservations.