"I'm not going to THEIR heaven...."

[LovebirdsFlying]

"....because they let in murderers and thieves and rapists and who knows what else?"

Said by not just a non-Christian, but an anti-Christian. I was stunned. How can anybody be against grace?

Comments? I hope?

 

[Tim Myers]

Look at it this way, maybe "OUR" heaven will be better off...

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

Look at it this way, maybe "OUR" heaven will be better off...

The thing is, this flies in the face of that other famous criticism of Heaven, "just a bunch of holier-than-thou goody-two-shoes. I'd rather go to hell and be with my friends. We'll all get good and rowdy."

So some people don't want to go to Heaven because there aren't *enough* so-called sinners there, and others because there are too many.

 

[Tim Myers]

I understand what you are saying.....

Some people's attitudes about heaven remind me of a quote from John Milton's "Paradise Lost".....

"Better to reign in Hell, than serve in Heaven."

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

I undrstand what you are saying.....

Some people's attitudes about heaven remind me of a quote from John Milton's "Paradise Lost".....

"Better to reign in Hell, than serve in Heaven."

LOL, serve? The first thing I want to do, since Jesus washed the disciples' feet and nobody thought to return the favor, is to wash His feet.

Glad to serve Him. He deserves it.

And what good is it to reign in hell, when it's... well, when it's hell?

 

[Izdaari Eristikon]

My instant bumper-sticker-like response: It isn't their heaven, it's His heaven.

And they needn't worry: no one will be forced to go there against their will.

 

[QuakerOats]

"....because they let in murderers and thieves and rapists and who knows what else?"

Said by not just a non-Christian, but an anti-Christian. I was stunned. How can anybody be against grace?

Comments? I hope?

I don't know the context in which this was said, but I think I understand. It's human nature to desire justice, and this person was probably looking at those who believe that a thief, rapist, murderer can enter heaven simply by a change of heart and wondering where that justice is. I don't blame them, really, particularly when said belief is often accompanied by 'non-Christians don't go to heaven.'

 

[lismore]

"....because they let in murderers and thieves and rapists and who knows what else?"

Said by not just a non-Christian, but an anti-Christian. I was stunned. How can anybody be against grace?

Comments? I hope?

hehe.

This passage comes to mind:

9 To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everyone else, Jesus told this parable: 10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector.12 I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’ 13 “But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’
14 “I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”


Luke 18

 

[cerad]

And they needn't worry: no one will be forced to go there against their will.

Interesting. So suppose someone has met all the entrance requirements but says "no thanks" at the gate. What happens then?

 

[Izdaari Eristikon]

Interesting. So suppose someone has met all the entrance requirements but says "no thanks" at the gate. What happens then?

Why. the bouncers grab him, tell him "You don't have a choice buddy", and frog-march him inside. What did you think?

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

I don't know the context in which this was said, but I think I understand. It's human nature to desire justice, and this person was probably looking at those who believe that a thief, rapist, murderer can enter heaven simply by a change of heart and wondering where that justice is. I don't blame them, really, particularly when said belief is often accompanied by 'non-Christians don't go to heaven.'

You have a point. Just last week when I was in Sunday School I confessed as my own weakness that someone can do something terrible, get off on a technicality or something, but later repent, and then among my thoughts is, "Darn, now that person is NEVER going to be punished for what they did!"

hehe.

This passage comes to mind:

9 To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everyone else, Jesus told this parable: 10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector.12 I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’ 13 “But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’
14 “I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”


Luke 18

That was my initial reaction. Something like, "Yes, they do let in murders and thieves and rapists, and praise God they do!" The "justice" angle does help explain the way of thinking, though.

Interesting. So suppose someone has met all the entrance requirements but says "no thanks" at the gate. What happens then?

IMO there is only one entrance requirement: acceptance, rather than rejection. Heaven is a gift we have already been offered. Saying "no thanks" at the gate, then, doesn't meet the entrance requirement.

Simul-post with Izzy. Now THAT is funny!

 

[lismore]

Interesting. So suppose someone has met all the entrance requirements but says "no thanks" at the gate. What happens then?

Hi cerad

In my opinion I dont think anyone can meet the entrance requirements, hence the need for Jesus the saviour. He met the entrance requirements of our behalf. The punishment for all our misdeeds was on him. Jesus also referred to himself as the gate.

In my view it's less about our choices, more about what God has already done.

I also think a lot of the popular notions and cliches about heaven and hell are myths and fairy tales.................




​

 

[TreeHouse]

Hi cerad

In my opinion I dont think anyone can meet the entrance requirements, hence the need for Jesus the saviour. He met the entrance requirements of our behalf. The punishment for all our misdeeds was on him. Jesus also referred to himself as the gate.​

In my view it's less about our choices, more about what God has already done.​

I also think a lot of the popular notions and cliches about heaven and hell are myths and fairy tales.................​

Thanks for posting this. This very response is what just ended a relationship I had with a very conservative woman who was so ingrained into doctrinal beliefs that she could not even accept a differing viewpoint, even from someone she loved.

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

Thanks for posting this. This very response is what just ended a relationship I had with a very conservative woman who was so ingrained into doctrinal beliefs that she could not even accept a differing viewpoint, even from someone she loved.

*puzzled* Is that good or bad? The response, I mean.

 

[Merlin Athrawes]

I don't know the context in which this was said, but I think I understand. It's human nature to desire justice, and this person was probably looking at those who believe that a thief, rapist, murderer can enter heaven simply by a change of heart and wondering where that justice is. I don't blame them, really, particularly when said belief is often accompanied by 'non-Christians don't go to heaven.'

Basically this. Thanks.

 

[lismore]

"....because they let in murderers and thieves and rapists and who knows what else?"

Sometimes people use extreme examples to try and make their case.

What % of the population are murderers or rapists? Very small. I have been in many Christian meetings, I have only met once a man who was in prison from murder, served 30 years, came out and came to the Christian drop-in lunchtime club where I was a volunteer.

Extreme examples lead to extreme conclusions. Maybe the person mentioned in your OP would be advised to meet a few CHristians and find out that many of them are ordinary, friendly people

 

[TreeHouse]

*puzzled* Is that good or bad? The response, I mean.

Apologies for the confusion. I meant that was what I said, almost verbatim actually, and in doing so, lost a person very near and dear to me because I chose to believe in love and sacrifice over something like fear and guilt. That being the case, I found the comment very refreshing.

 

[Radkal]

I just looked over this thread and was pretty disapointed.....

If i didn't know any better i would of thought i was at a George Bush Convention....

We are Liberals - Liberal MEANS LOVE!!

We should believe that Everyone gets saved by grace and makes it to heaven and there is no hell....

So what if this guy was a jerk - he is still human just like us and we are all the same....Nobody is better than anyonelse and nobody deserves to go to heaven anymore than anyonelse...

Love Each other - or go post in the conservative section.

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

I just looked over this thread and was pretty disapointed.....

If i didn't know any better i would of thought i was at a George Bush Convention....

We are Liberals - Liberal MEANS LOVE!!

We should believe that Everyone gets saved by grace and makes it to heaven and there is no hell....

So what if this guy was a jerk - he is still human just like us and we are all the same....Nobody is better than anyonelse and nobody deserves to go to heaven anymore than anyonelse...

Love Each other - or go post in the conservative section.

With all due respect, you're an atheist; what beliefs do YOU have about Heaven or hell? What's this "WE should believe" stuff, coming from one who doesn't? Contrary to what some may think, all Liberals don't agree on every point of doctrine, although IMO Liberals disagree with more civility than Conservatives do. Which is why I choose to identify as a Liberal even with a good many conservative religious beliefs. I am definitely Liberal politically.

On CF for two days, and you're coming in telling others who have been here for years that they are in the wrong forum, plus being an atheist telling Christians what they are supposed to believe. What gall. I hope my troll-o-meter is malfunctioning, because it is sending off huge signals, and I would rather welcome a newcomer than report a troll. Let's hope I am mistaken.

 

[Speculative]

We should believe that Everyone gets saved by grace and makes it to heaven and there is no hell....

Some of us do believe this, but we're not s'posed to tell