I'm Gaining A New Respect For The Catholic Church.

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I'm gaining a new respect for the Catholic church. I like the new pope and what he has been saying. And now this:

--Vatican office calls religious sisters, priests to live poorly, reject capitalism--

ROME The Vatican office responsible for the approximately 900,000 priests and brothers and sisters in religious orders around the world called on them this weekend to re-evaluate their holdings of wealth and to issue critiques of the global market capitalist economy, calling it unjust to the world's neediest.
Holding a conference near the Vatican for some 500 treasurers of the global orders Saturday and Sunday, the Vatican office looked back to the earliest teachings of the church, calling on the religious to reject accumulation of goods in order to follow Jesus, "the poor man who lives in solidarity with the poor."

Those were the words of Archbishop José Rodríguez Carballo, the secretary of the Vatican congregation, who in opening remarks also said, "Disciples must have nothing, not bread, not money in their bags."

Carballo continued, critiquing orders that have accumulated wealth over the years: "We always justify accumulation for the mission, but then that money doesn't arrive at the mission."

Accumulating such wealth, the archbishop said, "entails the danger of not being in the presence of God ... to lose the memory of God -- trust in him -- and forgetting about the poor."

Support independent Catholic journalism. Subscribe to NCR.
Carballo's office, the Congregation for Institutes of Consecrated Life and Societies of Apostolic Life, organized the first-of-its-kind summit at the request of Pope Francis.

Over some 15 talks during the two days, speakers selected by the office focused both on practical questions facing religious orders around the world -- particularly how to cope with extra property and assets in an age of dwindling vocations to religious life -- and on wider issues, like how religious should respond to disparities in the global economic system.

A constant theme during the event, held at Rome's Franciscan-run Pontifical University of St. Anthony, was criticism of the capitalist system, which several speakers called a "structure of sin" that purposefully does not attend to the needs of the poorest.

Outlining the church's response to the global economic system over the past several hundred years, one presenter, Stefano Zamagni, said it was "an unforgiveable mistake" that the church had not more openly critiqued the capitalist system.

Zamagni, a professor of economic politics at Italy's University of Bologna and a member of the Pontifical Academy of the Sciences, critiqued particularly the American model of capitalism, which he said allows people to exploit the world's resources to gather wealth and then only expects them to focus on charitable work once they are wealthy.

"A Christian just cannot accept this," Zamagni said. "It is not me saying this. It is the scared Scriptures. We cannot accept this logic."

Quoting Popes Paul VI's and John Paul II's writings on "structures of sin," Zamagni told the religious that if they allow their money to be used according to societal norms for accumulating wealth, they are contradicting church teachings.

"If individually we behave in a good way but institutionally we do bad things, we are not good Christians," he said. "If I am good but the rules of the game are perverted, I will cause evil things."

In remarks read to attendees by congregation prefect Brazilian Cardinal João Braz de Aviz, Francis warned the religious against a "theoretical poverty," writing that they need a poverty that comes from "touching the flesh of the poor Christ: in the humble, the poor, the sick, the children."

Likewise, in his talk, Carballo cited the story in Luke's Gospel of how Jesus treated a rich man who asked to be his disciple. Jesus, according to the story, told the man he must first give up his wealth if he wished to follow Jesus.

"Those who do not renounce wealth cannot be disciples," Carballo said. "This relationship is very clear. The disciples are called to follow God. They are called to entrust everything with God and only with God."

Citing the Second Vatican Council document on the church in the modern world, Gaudium et Spes, Carballo said the religious must focus on administering their goods in a way that gives benefit "not only to the owners, but also to others."

Church teaching on that issue, the archbishop said, "must cease to be hot air and must be at the basis for the creation of a new society" that "fights to redeem people -- the sons and daughters of God -- against an indiscriminate use of temporal goods."

The weekend summit, given the theme "The management of the ecclesiastical goods of Institutes of Consecrated Life and Societies of Apostolic Life, for the service of humanity and for the mission of the Church," was hosted mainly in Italian with simultaneous translation into English, Spanish and French.

It follows pointed remarks from Francis in the fall, who asked leaders of religious orders to re-evaluate management of their assets, especially empty monasteries and convents that in recent years have frequently been turned over to nonreligious pursuits, such as hotels and restaurants.

Another speaker at the conference was Sr. Evelyne Franc, the superior general of the international order of the Daughters of Charity, based in France and founded under the charism of the 17th-century St. Vincent de Paul.

Hosting a roundtable Sunday on a "prophetic, communal economy with solidarity," Franc said her order revised its constitutions in 2003 to include a promise to "work to change the unjust structures that cause poverty."

Franc said orders face a "challenge of authenticity between our principles and what we do."

"We run the risk of leaving money our master and leaving the social doctrine of the church to one side when our interests and our congregation are in question," she said. "We need to be vigilant in our style of life so as to counter this culture."

Among others addressing the event were Indianapolis Archbishop Joseph Tobin, who spoke Saturday on how management of goods and assets by religious orders affect diocesan bishops.

Tobin, a member of the Redemptorist order who preceded Carballo as secretary of the Vatican congregation from 2010-2012, outlined particularly the process religious should follow when deciding to close a ministry they maintain in a diocese, such as a school or hospital.

Citing several examples where bishops and orders had come to disagreement over closing of a ministry, Tobin asked the religious to be in "constant communication" with their bishops over their needs.

However, the archbishop said, local bishops sometimes make "unjust interventions" into how orders decide to operate.

Also speaking during Sunday's roundtable was Kerry Robinson, the executive director of the U.S.-based National Leadership Roundtable on Church Management, which brings together lay experts and church leaders to promote best practices and management of church resources.

Robinson encouraged the religious to call on lay experts in various fields to help them in their use of financial assets, saying it brings about an "elegant and vital biproduct" of the evangelization of those experts.

"One is far more likely to become fully immersed and invested in the very life of the church if one is recognized for what she or he does best and is invited to blend that in service to the church," Robinson said.

Carballo, the congregation secretary, said Saturday the Vatican office is planning to use the discussions from the weekend conference as a starting point in the drafting of guidelines for religious orders in their use of money.

Vatican office calls religious sisters, priests to live poorly, reject capitalism | National Catholic Reporter
 

stevevw

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Its a start and thats good. I always get an uncomfortable feeling about religions that have these big grand cathedrals and all the lavish furnishings. Everything looks expensive and they look no different to some politicians offices that have been draped out with tax payers money.

Maybe Pope St Francis has something to do with it as he worked with the poor before becoming the Pope. But the churches need to get back to basics and rid themselves of all the trappings and set the example of Christ.
 
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ProudMomxmany

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The pope has chosen to not live in the Papal Palace...I understand he lives in a rooming house across the street. Also, he has rejected many of the trappings of the papacy including the red shoes, the popemobile, and a variety of other things.

This man is going to upset a LOT of folks, the conservative Catholic (aka "traditional"), the right wing fundamentalist folks in the USA and a whole lot of religious orders that have made it their mission to collect wealth.

I'm a "recovering" RC and it really frosted my backside when I'd see the parish priest driving a Mercedes while some of his parishioners couldn't even afford a car. We won't discuss what I said to the priest who refused to give my father last rites...it wasn't pretty.
 
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ProudMomxmany said:
The pope has chosen to not live in the Papal Palace...I understand he lives in a rooming house across the street. Also, he has rejected many of the trappings of the papacy including the red shoes, the popemobile, and a variety of other things. This man is going to upset a LOT of folks, the conservative Catholic (aka "traditional"), the right wing fundamentalist folks in the USA and a whole lot of religious orders that have made it their mission to collect wealth. I'm a "recovering" RC and it really frosted my backside when I'd see the parish priest driving a Mercedes while some of his parishioners couldn't even afford a car. We won't discuss what I said to the priest who refused to give my father last rites...it wasn't pretty.
dont underestimate the ability of right-wing American Catholics to spin what the pope says.
 
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stevevw

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I just seen a news item on TV showing how the pope is changing the way things are being done at the vatican. It seems he is breaking a lot of protocols and people are taking some notice. The weekly mass held out in St. Peter's Basilica have evidently doubled in size sinse he has taken over. He has held a service outside the Vatican area for the first time as well and breaking tradition. He chooses to use a ford instead of the Mercedes as his traveling car and has even traveled on the bus like a normal person so that he can be closer to the people. A lot of people are saying that they can connect with him and he is like a normal everyday person. He has stated that he doesn't like it when he sees some priests having lavish cars and wants the churches to rid themselves of all the trappings so that they can give more to the poor. Some of the old school are not liking it so this shows he is on the right track. Good on him, at least he is restoring some respect back to the church and moving closer to how Jesus would have wanted it.
 
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ProudMomxmany

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I just seen a news item on TV showing how the pope is changing the way things are being done at the vatican. It seems he is breaking a lot of protocols and people are taking some notice. The weekly mass held out in St. Peter's Basilica have evidently doubled in size sinse he has taken over. He has held a service outside the Vatican area for the first time as well and breaking tradition. He chooses to use a ford instead of the Mercedes as his traveling car and has even traveled on the bus like a normal person so that he can be closer to the people. A lot of people are saying that they can connect with him and he is like a normal everyday person. He has stated that he doesn't like it when he sees some priests having lavish cars and wants the churches to rid themselves of all the trappings so that they can give more to the poor. Some of the old school are not liking it so this shows he is on the right track. Good on him, at least he is restoring some respect back to the church and moving closer to how Jesus would have wanted it.

Well you know how it is with those pesky poor people...they need to get up off their duffs and get jobs so they stop asking other people for money. According to them, Jesus was a rich white guy who thought that people should raise themselves by their bootstraps instead of their brothers and sisters in Christ making sure they have what they need. They forgot that whole thing about the rich man, the camel and the eye of the needle.
 
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There are many different things that get touted as the definition of "capitalism", so it's hard for me to know what exactly someone rejects when they say they "reject capitalism".

A little while ago I read a translation of the Pope's earlier statement about the poor, Capitalism, etc. It came from some news service that maintained that the usual media had translated many words and expression in the most prejudiced way in order to make it seem that the Pope's statement was more political and more extreme than it actually was.

I don't recall the exact translations at this moment, but they were something like translating the original wording as "Capitalistic" when it should have been "materialistic," and so on. I am wondering, therefore, it this statement is in the same category as that. However, it's apparently come from the National Catholic Reporter, and I don't know how the NCR might slant things, if at all.
 
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NCR is notoriously right-wing. They LOVED Benedict, "God's Rottweiler".

I kinda had that recollection. Do you suspect, therefore, that this publication is doing, more or less, what I referred to in my previous post?
 
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ProudMomxmany

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I kinda had that recollection. Do you suspect, therefore, that this publication is doing, more or less, what I referred to in my previous post?

Probably...I have friends who are rabid traditional (fundamentalist) Catholics and they HATE the current Pope...NCR is favored by those types. We agreed not to discuss either religion or politics because I'm an X-Catholic and walked away from that rabid type of conservatism a long time ago.
 
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Psalm 91

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I'm gaining a new respect for the Catholic church. I like the new pope and what he has been saying. And now this:

--Vatican office calls religious sisters, priests to live poorly, reject capitalism--

ROME The Vatican office responsible for the approximately 900,000 priests and brothers and sisters in religious orders around the world called on them this weekend to re-evaluate their holdings of wealth and to issue critiques of the global market capitalist economy, calling it unjust to the world's neediest.
Holding a conference near the Vatican for some 500 treasurers of the global orders Saturday and Sunday, the Vatican office looked back to the earliest teachings of the church, calling on the religious to reject accumulation of goods in order to follow Jesus, "the poor man who lives in solidarity with the poor."

Those were the words of Archbishop José Rodríguez Carballo, the secretary of the Vatican congregation, who in opening remarks also said, "Disciples must have nothing, not bread, not money in their bags."

Carballo continued, critiquing orders that have accumulated wealth over the years: "We always justify accumulation for the mission, but then that money doesn't arrive at the mission."

Accumulating such wealth, the archbishop said, "entails the danger of not being in the presence of God ... to lose the memory of God -- trust in him -- and forgetting about the poor."

Support independent Catholic journalism. Subscribe to NCR.
Carballo's office, the Congregation for Institutes of Consecrated Life and Societies of Apostolic Life, organized the first-of-its-kind summit at the request of Pope Francis.

Over some 15 talks during the two days, speakers selected by the office focused both on practical questions facing religious orders around the world -- particularly how to cope with extra property and assets in an age of dwindling vocations to religious life -- and on wider issues, like how religious should respond to disparities in the global economic system.

A constant theme during the event, held at Rome's Franciscan-run Pontifical University of St. Anthony, was criticism of the capitalist system, which several speakers called a "structure of sin" that purposefully does not attend to the needs of the poorest.

Outlining the church's response to the global economic system over the past several hundred years, one presenter, Stefano Zamagni, said it was "an unforgiveable mistake" that the church had not more openly critiqued the capitalist system.

Zamagni, a professor of economic politics at Italy's University of Bologna and a member of the Pontifical Academy of the Sciences, critiqued particularly the American model of capitalism, which he said allows people to exploit the world's resources to gather wealth and then only expects them to focus on charitable work once they are wealthy.

"A Christian just cannot accept this," Zamagni said. "It is not me saying this. It is the scared Scriptures. We cannot accept this logic."

Quoting Popes Paul VI's and John Paul II's writings on "structures of sin," Zamagni told the religious that if they allow their money to be used according to societal norms for accumulating wealth, they are contradicting church teachings.

"If individually we behave in a good way but institutionally we do bad things, we are not good Christians," he said. "If I am good but the rules of the game are perverted, I will cause evil things."

In remarks read to attendees by congregation prefect Brazilian Cardinal João Braz de Aviz, Francis warned the religious against a "theoretical poverty," writing that they need a poverty that comes from "touching the flesh of the poor Christ: in the humble, the poor, the sick, the children."

Likewise, in his talk, Carballo cited the story in Luke's Gospel of how Jesus treated a rich man who asked to be his disciple. Jesus, according to the story, told the man he must first give up his wealth if he wished to follow Jesus.

"Those who do not renounce wealth cannot be disciples," Carballo said. "This relationship is very clear. The disciples are called to follow God. They are called to entrust everything with God and only with God."

Citing the Second Vatican Council document on the church in the modern world, Gaudium et Spes, Carballo said the religious must focus on administering their goods in a way that gives benefit "not only to the owners, but also to others."

Church teaching on that issue, the archbishop said, "must cease to be hot air and must be at the basis for the creation of a new society" that "fights to redeem people -- the sons and daughters of God -- against an indiscriminate use of temporal goods."

The weekend summit, given the theme "The management of the ecclesiastical goods of Institutes of Consecrated Life and Societies of Apostolic Life, for the service of humanity and for the mission of the Church," was hosted mainly in Italian with simultaneous translation into English, Spanish and French.

It follows pointed remarks from Francis in the fall, who asked leaders of religious orders to re-evaluate management of their assets, especially empty monasteries and convents that in recent years have frequently been turned over to nonreligious pursuits, such as hotels and restaurants.

Another speaker at the conference was Sr. Evelyne Franc, the superior general of the international order of the Daughters of Charity, based in France and founded under the charism of the 17th-century St. Vincent de Paul.

Hosting a roundtable Sunday on a "prophetic, communal economy with solidarity," Franc said her order revised its constitutions in 2003 to include a promise to "work to change the unjust structures that cause poverty."

Franc said orders face a "challenge of authenticity between our principles and what we do."

"We run the risk of leaving money our master and leaving the social doctrine of the church to one side when our interests and our congregation are in question," she said. "We need to be vigilant in our style of life so as to counter this culture."

Among others addressing the event were Indianapolis Archbishop Joseph Tobin, who spoke Saturday on how management of goods and assets by religious orders affect diocesan bishops.

Tobin, a member of the Redemptorist order who preceded Carballo as secretary of the Vatican congregation from 2010-2012, outlined particularly the process religious should follow when deciding to close a ministry they maintain in a diocese, such as a school or hospital.

Citing several examples where bishops and orders had come to disagreement over closing of a ministry, Tobin asked the religious to be in "constant communication" with their bishops over their needs.

However, the archbishop said, local bishops sometimes make "unjust interventions" into how orders decide to operate.

Also speaking during Sunday's roundtable was Kerry Robinson, the executive director of the U.S.-based National Leadership Roundtable on Church Management, which brings together lay experts and church leaders to promote best practices and management of church resources.

Robinson encouraged the religious to call on lay experts in various fields to help them in their use of financial assets, saying it brings about an "elegant and vital biproduct" of the evangelization of those experts.

"One is far more likely to become fully immersed and invested in the very life of the church if one is recognized for what she or he does best and is invited to blend that in service to the church," Robinson said.

Carballo, the congregation secretary, said Saturday the Vatican office is planning to use the discussions from the weekend conference as a starting point in the drafting of guidelines for religious orders in their use of money.

Vatican office calls religious sisters, priests to live poorly, reject capitalism | National Catholic Reporter

Well, I guess the Catholics who were hoping the pope would let priests marry, were wrong. How can they support a family if they are kept poor.

I'm not a very good person to encourage you because I left the Catholic Church in my 30's.
#1 They brainwashed young women into thinking they were marrying Christ, I guess that was taken from the part of Scripture referring to the Bride of Christ. They forgot that nuns and priests are human too. Sure Paul said something about staying single but he also said it was better to marry than to burn. What on earth made them think they could force celibacy on people? No where in Scripture does Jesus say that a person had to be celibate if he wanted to follow Him. Priests are not part of the 12 apostles who had a church to start.

#2 Then after Vatican II or maybe it was III in the 60's with Pope John 23rd, they decided to change the church. Apparently, according to my sister and my dad, lol, a secret letter left for the Pope to read on a certain date, from Lucia, one of the three children at Fatima, told him about the fall or scattering of the church. (That could have been a prophecy about the apostasy for all we know). But the pope got worried and wanted to head off the problem so he made the church become more "protestant". The Mass was changed from Latin to English and the statues were removed. Well, IMO, that didn't leave much and people left in large numbers. What is sad is that those Catholics didn't go elsewhere, they just stayed home on Sundays. Then in the '80's and '90's the priest scandal came out, which almost finished them off, if not for Pope John Paul II, whom I never liked. Why? Because he followed John Paul I, the "smiling pope" and my favorite and he HAD to have known that his predecessor was murdered. Anyway, he kept the Church stable.

#3 They killed the "smiling pope" because he found out how much the Vatican under Paul VI was involved with the Mafia, that Bishop Marcinkus who ran the Vatican Bank was stealing money and did much more, and Cardinal Cody of Chicago was funneling money to a mistress in Florida. He was also closing Catholic Schools and actually threw priests out on the street. He was terrible. Paul VI was a worry wart and was afraid to do anything. So John Paul I was going to remove them from their positions and deal with the Mafia thing and the Freemasonry going on in the Vatican. He was killed, poisoned during the night. An autopsy was done in the Vatican but wasn't complete because the medical examiner was being told what he could look at, etc. The verdict was heart attack. He was buried without much fanfare and if you have noticed, is NEVER talked about by anyone. Then they told the people that he was going to be very liberal, which was not true at all.

#4 If they insist on priests and nuns being poor, where does that money go? To the Vatican. They decide how much is given and how much is kept. They have a lot of gold, IMO, to be telling other people to be poor. Hypocrites, IMO.

#5 I believe that something huge has happened in the Vatican because a Jesuit would never have been elected pope. I suspect a coup by the Jesuits and now the pope is a Jesuit. That means serious trouble.

I could go on about their theology but maybe another day. I left because I watched the PTL Club and for the first time in my life, I saw people come to tears when talking about Jesus. I saw clear obsession with Him, which is something you don't experience in Catholicism. They quoted from the Bible, which I had never read and I couldn't believe how beautiful the words were. So I accepted Jesus and left the church I grew up in but was always depressed after Mass. How refreshing the Evangelical Church was to me and my relationship with Jesus grew. I backslid for awhile because I really didn't understand a lot of what I was learning. But by the time I came back to Him, everything changed. I understood Scripture and drew closer to Him. He's my King. He's sovereign and He sustains me and quiets my restlessness.

For some people, Catholicism may be right. God probably has us where we are supposed to be and if it meets the persons spiritual need, then I guess that is where they belong. I feel bad for them because they are missing the most glorious Word of God. Some Catholics read it but the translation is very cold, kind of like, no offense, the NIV and the New English Version and probably more which I haven't read.

So for me, instead of gaining respect, I go completely in the opposite direction. I think of the Jesuits as a very, very dangerous organization and will kill anyone who gets in their way. I would never trust a Jesuit pope.

Most of the historical information I posted was from a book called "In God's Name" by David Yallop.
 
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ebia

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Psalm 91 said:
Well, I guess the Catholics who were hoping the pope would let priests marry, were wrong. How can they support a family if they are kept poor. I'm not a very good person to encourage you because I left the Catholic Church in my 30's. #1 They brainwashed young women into thinking they were marrying Christ, I guess that was taken from the part of Scripture referring to the Bride of Christ. They forgot that nuns and priests are human too. Sure Paul said something about staying single but he also said it was better to marry than to burn. What on earth made them think they could force celibacy on people? No where in Scripture does Jesus say that a person had to be celibate if he wanted to follow Him. Priests are not part of the 12 apostles who had a church to start. #2 Then after Vatican II or maybe it was III in the 60's with Pope John 23rd, they decided to change the church. Apparently, according to my sister and my dad, lol, a secret letter left for the Pope to read on a certain date, from Lucia, one of the three children at Fatima, told him about the fall or scattering of the church. (That could have been a prophecy about the apostasy for all we know). But the pope got worried and wanted to head off the problem so he made the church become more "protestant". The Mass was changed from Latin to English and the statues were removed. Well, IMO, that didn't leave much and people left in large numbers. What is sad is that those Catholics didn't go elsewhere, they just stayed home on Sundays. Then in the '80's and '90's the priest scandal came out, which almost finished them off, if not for Pope John Paul VI, whom I never liked. Why? Because he followed John Paul I, the "smiling pope" and my favorite and he HAD to have known that his predecessor was murdered. Anyway, he kept the Church stable. #3 They killed the "smiling pope" because he found out how much Paul VI was involved with the Mafia, that Bishop Marcinkus who ran the Vatican Bank was stealing money and did much more, and Cardinal Cody of Chicago was funneling money to a mistress in Florida. He was also closing Catholic Schools and actually threw priests out on the street. He was terrible. So John Paul I was going to remove them from their positions and deal with the Mafia thing and the Freemasonry going on in the Vatican. He was killed, poisoned during the night. An autopsy was done in the Vatican but wasn't complete because the medical examiner was being told what he could look at, etc. He was buried without much fanfare and if you have noticed, is NEVER talked about by anyone. Then they told the people that he was going to be very liberal, which was not true at all. #4 If they insist on priests and nuns being poor, where does that money go? To the Vatican. They decide how much is given and how much is kept. They have a lot of gold, IMO, to be telling other people to be poor. Hypocrites, IMO. #5 I believe that something huge has happened in the Vatican because a Jesuit would never have been elected pope. I suspect a coup by the Jesuits and now the pope is a Jesuit. That means serious trouble. I could go on about their theology but maybe another day. I left because I watched the PTL Club and for the first time in my life, I saw people come to tears when talking about Jesus. I saw clear obsession with Him, which is something you don't experience in Catholicism. They quoted from the Bible, which I had never read and I couldn't believe how beautiful the words were. So I accepted Jesus and left the church I grew up in but was always depressed after Mass. How refreshing the Evangelical Church was to me and my relationship with Jesus grew. I backslid for awhile because I really didn't understand a lot of what I was learning. But by the time I came back to Him, everything changed. I understood Scripture and drew closer to Him. He's my King. He's sovereign and He sustains me and quiets my restlessness. For some people, Catholicism may be right. God probably has us where we are supposed to be and if it meets the persons spiritual need, then I guess that is where they belong. I feel bad for them because they are missing the most glorious Word of God. Some Catholics read it but the translation is very cold, kind of like, no offense, the NIV and the New English Version and probably more which I haven't read. So for me, instead of gaining respect, I go completely in the opposite direction.
If you don't know how many Vatican councils there have been then it should be clear that you haven't a clue about what you are talking about.
 
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Psalm 91

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The pope has chosen to not live in the Papal Palace...I understand he lives in a rooming house across the street. Also, he has rejected many of the trappings of the papacy including the red shoes, the popemobile, and a variety of other things.

This man is going to upset a LOT of folks, the conservative Catholic (aka "traditional"), the right wing fundamentalist folks in the USA and a whole lot of religious orders that have made it their mission to collect wealth.

I'm a "recovering" RC and it really frosted my backside when I'd see the parish priest driving a Mercedes while some of his parishioners couldn't even afford a car. We won't discuss what I said to the priest who refused to give my father last rites...it wasn't pretty.

He's probably living in the rooming house so his Jesuit friends can look out for and protect him if necessary.
 
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I just seen a news item on TV showing how the pope is changing the way things are being done at the vatican. It seems he is breaking a lot of protocols and people are taking some notice. The weekly mass held out in St. Peter's Basilica have evidently doubled in size sinse he has taken over. He has held a service outside the Vatican area for the first time as well and breaking tradition. He chooses to use a ford instead of the Mercedes as his traveling car and has even traveled on the bus like a normal person so that he can be closer to the people. A lot of people are saying that they can connect with him and he is like a normal everyday person. He has stated that he doesn't like it when he sees some priests having lavish cars and wants the churches to rid themselves of all the trappings so that they can give more to the poor. Some of the old school are not liking it so this shows he is on the right track. Good on him, at least he is restoring some respect back to the church and moving closer to how Jesus would have wanted it.

Be careful. Don't be too respectful. There are probably several Jesuits planted on the bus before he gets on. ;)
 
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Psalm 91

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If you don't know how many Vatican councils there have been then it should be clear that you haven't a clue about what you are talking about.

:D:D:D So typical of this forum. I was a kid at the time, okay? All I know is that it almost devastated the Catholic Church at the time. If they had wanted to make change they should have started with their own hearts. I doubt that their decision was given to them by God. By trying to prevent something they caused it to happen.
 
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ebia

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Psalm 91 said:
:D:D:D So typical of this forum. I was a kid at the time, okay? All I know is that it almost devastated the Catholic Church at the time.
Except it didn't

Having a kids understanding when you are a kid is okay.

Thinking that understanding is true and posting it as such when you are an adult, however,...
 
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Psalm 91

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Except it didn't

Having a kids understanding when you are a kid is okay.

Thinking that understanding is true and posting it as such when you are an adult, however,...

Does it give you a kick to put others down? What do you know about Vatican II? And yes it did because the Mass changed and people were horrified by how little there was to it in the first place once they understood the language.

Did you live through it? It doesn't feel good as a child being the only member of your family who would attend Mass. It didn't feel good to see the person who helped the priests decorate and get ready for Mass, walk away in tears. At the time, I didn't understand why everyone was so upset because I never really liked Mass anyway. I went with my family because we were Catholic. I kept going until my twenties and couldn't take feeling depressed after Mass anymore so I became a non-practicing Catholic for a few years. So studying Church history wouldn't have been an interesting topic for me. Not that I owe you any explanation after your rudeness. :cool:
 
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The only issue I have are the people issuing these statements live in a palace.

The Large living places that they have was handed down to them from previous generations. What should they do with them? Destroy them simply because they are large and luxurious? I think they should sell them, but I have no idea of the property market over their. I don't know what they could sell them for.
 
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