If you Love Me - KEEP My Commandments

[Travis93]

Again and again, God only imposed those laws om Israel. Pigs have been eaten by all other nations on Earth since recorded history at least. All of the people ever born are God's children. If he didn't want them to eat pigs I am sure He would ahve communicated that to them. Please explan why everyone else could eat what they wanted and only Israel could not.

False gods have been worshiped by all other nations on Earth since recorded history at least. All of the people ever born are God's children. If he didn't want them to worship false gods I am sure He would ahve communicated that to them. Please explan why everyone else could worship false gods and only Israel could not.

The fact that the other nations don't have the law is not something I want to emulate.
Leviticus 18:26 Ye shall therefore keep my statutes and my judgments, and shall not commit any of these abominations; neither any of your own nation, nor any stranger that sojourneth among you:
Leviticus 18:27 (For all these abominations have the men of the land done, which were before you, and the land is defiled
Deuteronomy 12:30 Take heed to thyself that thou be not snared by following them, after that they be destroyed from before thee; and that thou enquire not after their gods, saying, How did these nations serve their gods? even so will I do likewise.
Deuteronomy 12:31 Thou shalt not do so unto the Lord thy God: for every abomination to the Lord, which he hateth, have they done unto their gods; for even their sons and their daughters they have burnt in the fire to their gods.
Deuteronomy 18:12 For all that do these things are an abomination unto the Lord: and because of these abominations the Lord thy God doth drive them out from before thee.

The plan is for other nations to look at Israel and realize how wonderful their laws are.
Deuteronomy 4:6 Keep therefore and do them; for this is your wisdom and your understanding in the sight of the nations, which shall hear all these statutes, and say, Surely this great nation is a wise and understanding people.
Deuteronomy 4:7 For what nation is there so great, who hath God so nigh unto them, as the Lord our God is in all things that we call upon him for?
Deuteronomy 4:8 And what nation is there so great, that hath statutes and judgments so righteous as all this law, which I set before you this day?

And indeed all people will do so in the future, now is your chance to prepare.
Isaiah 2:2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
Isaiah 2:3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.

 

[BABerean2]

I don't think Peter declared the foods clean though, notice he still refused to eat the unclean meat all three times. He knew God would never change his law, and realized it was just symbolic of God showing him gentiles could be clean.
Acts 10:28 And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.
This is not anywhere in the law of Moses, Peter was still under the influence of all the oral laws he grew up with. Here's what the real law says:
Leviticus 19:33 And if a stranger sojourn with thee in your land, ye shall not vex him.
Leviticus 19:34 But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God.
This was Peter's interpretation of the vision:
Acts 10:28 And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.

My point is that by interpreting the apostles to oppose the law you make them out to be false prophets, if read in context of supporting the law they are just fine. As far as Stephen, he never opposed the law either:

Acts 6:13 And set up false witnesses, which said, This man ceaseth not to speak blasphemous words against this holy place, and the law:

The Pharisees hated Jesus and the apostles for speaking against their man made traditions that they considered on par with the law of Moses, not for speaking against the real law.

You fail to admit that the law was "added" 430 years "after" the promise made to Abraham and was in effect "until" the seed (Christ) could come to whom the promise was made.
The inheritance does not come through the law. It comes through the promise made to Abraham 430 years before the Sinai covenant began.
This is clearly found in the Book of Galatians. (Galatians 3:16-29)

You are insisting that salvation is linked to the works of a broken covenant, instead of recognizing the New Covenant. (Jeremiah 31:31-34)

Then you dare to say the Apostle Paul was a false prophet.

You are promoting the doctrine of the Pharisees.

Gal 5:12 I wish those who unsettle you would emasculate themselves!

.

 

[Bob S]

False gods have been worshiped by all other nations on Earth since recorded history at least. All of the people ever born are God's children. If he didn't want them to worship false gods I am sure He would ahve communicated that to them. Please explan why everyone else could worship false gods and only Israel could not.

Everybody didn't worship false gods. Abraham and Issac didn't Noah didn't. Noah could eat anything and we don't find God giving Abraham instructions either. He probably raised and ate pig meat.

The fact that the other nations don't have the law is not something I want to emulate.

I would have much rather have been under the laws of Abraham than the ritual laws of Israel.

 

[Lysimachus]

What point is that exactly?

The apostles went to preach in the synagogues on Saturdays because that is where the Jews were gathered together in large numbers. Devout converts (Greeks) to Judaism were welcome in the synagogues also. The synagogues welcomed Jews and devout converts to Judaism. They did not welcome Greeks who were not devout converts to Judaism.

Paul did not go to the synagogues on Saturdays to preach to the Christians. The Christians gathered together to worship on the first day of the week. Acts 20:7, 1 Corinthians 16:2

Acts 13:13-17
Now Paul and his company set sail from Paphos, and came to Perga in Pamphyl′ia. And John left them and returned to Jerusalem; 14 but they passed on from Perga and came to Antioch of Pisid′ia. And on the sabbath day they went into the synagogue and sat down. 15 After the reading of the law and the prophets, the rulers of the synagogue sent to them, saying, “Brethren, if you have any word of exhortation for the people, say it.” 16 So Paul stood up, and motioning with his hand said: “Men of Israel, and you that fear God, listen. 17 The God of this people Israel chose our fathers and made the people great during their stay in the land of Egypt, and with uplifted arm he led them out of it. ......
36 For David, after he had served the counsel of God in his own generation, fell asleep, and was laid with his fathers, and saw corruption; 37 but he whom God raised up saw no corruption. 38 Let it be known to you therefore, brethren, that through this man forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you, 39 and by him every one that believes is freed from everything from which you could not be freed by the law of Moses. 40 Beware, therefore, lest there come upon you what is said in the prophets:

41 ‘Behold, you scoffers, and wonder, and perish;
for I do a deed in your days,
a deed you will never believe, if one declares it to you.’”

42 As they went out, the people begged that these things might be told them the next sabbath. 43 And when the meeting of the synagogue broke up, many Jews and devout converts to Judaism followed Paul and Barnabas, who spoke to them and urged them to continue in the grace of God.

44 The next sabbath almost the whole city gathered together to hear the word of God. 45 But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with jealousy, and contradicted what was spoken by Paul, and reviled him. 46 And Paul and Barnabas spoke out boldly, saying, “It was necessary that the word of God should be spoken first to you (Jews). Since you thrust it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of eternal life, behold, we turn to the Gentiles (non-Jews). 47 For so the Lord has commanded us, saying,

‘I have set you to be a light for the Gentiles,
that you may bring salvation to the uttermost parts of the earth.’”


48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of God; and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
rsv


Please note that they did not meet in the synagogue on the next sabbath day; there were too many people to fit in the synagogue. Greeks/Gentiles who were in the city also heard Paul's preaching to the Jews and the converts to Judaism. Some of these Greeks/Gentiles believed Paul and they became Christians.

Acts 17:4
And some of them (Jews) were persuaded, and joined Paul and Silas; as did a great many of the devout Greeks (converts to Judaism) and not a few of the leading (Jewish) women. rsv


Acts 18:4
And he argued in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded Jews and Greeks (devout converts to Judaism). rsv

​

The Greeks in the synagogues on the Sabbath were devout converts to Judaism. Only Jews and converts to Judaism were allowed in the synagogues.

1 Corinthians 10:32
Give no offense to Jews or to Greeks or to the church of God, rsv
​

These Jews are not Christians. These Greeks are not Christians. It is the Church of God which is comprised of Christians.

​

In Christianity, there is no distinction between Jew and Greek by nationality. Believers in Christianity are called the church of God and they meet together to worship on the first day of the week. Acts 20:7, 1 Corinthians 16:2

Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. rsv

Romans 10:12
For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; the same Lord is Lord of all and bestows his riches upon all who call upon him. rsv

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—Jews or Greeks, slaves or free—and all were made to drink of one Spirit. rsv

Colossians 3:11
Here there cannot be Greek and Jew, circumcised and uncircumcised, barbarian, Scyth′ian, slave, free man, but Christ is all, and in all. rsv


​

In Acts 13:42-44, how easy it would have been for Paul to tell these gentiles, "hey, no worries, we don't have to wait until next Sabbath. I can preach to you tomorrow, and we can make some headway! Since tomorrow is the resurrection of our Lord!" But no, Paul simply went along with these gentiles, and met with them the NEXT Sabbath, where the WHOLE city came together to hear the Word of God. This would have been a perfect opportunity to introduce Sunday.

Or he could have saved some time, and preached to the Gentiles the next day on Sunday, and if he was really concerned about impressing the Jews, he would have met with the Jews the next Sabbath. Why lose all that time? It makes no sense.

While the Jews are not Christians, all those Jews that accepted Jesus Christ, BECAME Christians. And many Jews that believed CONTINUED preaching, this time the Gospel, in the Synagogues. The Synagogues BECAME the early version of "Church". In Acts 15:19-21, you have the Apostle James, testifying that these uncircumcised Christian believers, would continue to meet in the Synagogue (that is, Christian Synagogues) every Sabbath to hear the Word of God.

Now note Luke 23:56:

"And they [the women] returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment." (Luke 23:56)

Luke admits here that the Sabbath was still part of God's commandments 35 years after Christ's death on the cross. According to Hebrews 9:16-20, a covenant is not in effect until after the death of the testator and the shedding of blood. Exodus 24 confirms this where it says the covenant at Sinai was not ratified until the shedding of the blood of an Ox. That's when the covenant (which became "old" due to Israel's failure) was put in place, AFTER the Sabbath was part of "my law" in Exodus 16.

Christ had already died the day before, sealing the covenant, and the New Covenant was already in effect. IF the Sabbath was abolished with the Old Covenant, then it would have been impossible for Luke, a gentile, to recognize that the Sabbath was still "according to the commandment." Impossible. It would no longer have been part of the commandment.

In addition, it is important to realize that the Sabbath was part of "my law" (God's law, not the Law of Moses) in Exodus 16:4, before they reached Sinai. And no sacrifices were held on it, like they were held on the Passover in Exodus 12. It is disconnected from the remedial laws of Moses being spoken about in Galatians. The context of Galatians has to do with circumcision (mentioned 12 times), and the observance of feast days. Not the weekly Sabbath mentioned in stone. If Paul were including the 4th commandment, then he would be contradicting himself in Hebrews 4:9,10, where those who enter into God's eternal rest, will also cease from their own works on the seventh day as God did from His. The Sabbath REMAINS as a symbol of that eternal rest in Christ, which was offered to Israel even in the Old Testament. It is not abolished. And all those who preach such nonsense are preaching a doctrine from HELL. It is a demonic and sadistic assault on God's heavenly law.

In Acts 15, the central matter was over circumcision. Why? Because circumcision was the "entry-point" or "gateway" so to speak to the observance of the entire Ceremonial Laws of Moses. This can be testified in Exodus 12:43-49 (read them). In these passages, it tells us explicitly that in order for male gentiles to participate in the Passover, by both EATING AND KEEPING the Passover Feast, they must be circumcised. Circumcision was the "gateway" requirement for gentiles to keep the Feasts.

Not so with the Sabbath. The Sabbath was "standalone" to the festal calendar. While the weekly Sabbath was "fixed" every 7 days, the Feasts wandered and landed according to the ripening of the Barley Harvest. It was also not a requirement to be circumcised in order to keep the Sabbath. This can be attested to in the following verses:

"But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates." (Exodus 20:10)

"Six days thou shalt do thy work, and on the seventh day thou shalt rest: that thine ox and thine ass may rest, and the son of thy handmaid, and the stranger, may be refreshed."(Exodus 23:12)

Again this can be seen in Isaiah 56:1-8. Gentiles who were within the communion of Israel, were to observe the Sabbath, whether circumcised or not. It was not a requirement to be circumcised in order to keep the Sabbath. But for the Passover, which was the first of the 7 feasts of the Jewish year, they indeed were.

This proves that in Acts 15, when the question came as to whether the converted Gentiles were to observe Circumcision, and the Law of Moses or not, that the question under consideration was all those requirements which circumcision was "tied" to. Since the Sabbath is nowhere tied to circumcision in scripture, the Sabbath cannot be under consideration. And the fact that they gave them 4 commands (Fornication, Abstaining from Blood, Things Offered to Idols, and Things Strangled--commands for the Alien in Lev. 17-19) is proof positive that the Ten Commandments were not under consideration. If they were, these 4 commands would give the impression that they were now giving the Gentiles license to dishonor their parents, to seal, to covet, to murder, and take God's name in vain.

Verse 21 in Acts 15 nails it, that James still expected the Gentiles, like in the time of Moses, to continue meeting in the Synagogue every Sabbath and hear the reading of the Law of Moses. And they would be uncircumcised! Therefore, circumcision was NOT a requirement to observe the Sabbath, and since the topic of Acts 15 was circumcision, you can be sure that the Sabbath was not part of the equation of something that was to be abolished for Christians.

In addition to all that, here is some additional information:

"According to Genesis, God instituted the Sabbath to mark an invariable rhythm for human life. Six days for work, then one day for rest. This was a natural cycle, established as part of Creation itself.

The will of God regarding this seven-day cycle is reiterated in the story of the Israelites’ exodus from Egypt. Their daily sustenance was manna (“food from heaven” Ps. 78:24), which they gathered each morning, six days a week. On the seventh day there was no manna. They ate leftovers – miraculously preserved – from the previous day.

Later, at Mt. Sinai, the weekly cycle, with its Sabbath, was embedded at the heart of the Ten Commandments: “Six days shalt thou labor and do all thy work, but the seventh day is the sabbath…” Ex. 20:9, 10.

This seventh-day Sabbath was unique. It recurred with regularity without reference to the motion of sun, moon, or stars.

Not so with other important cycles in Hebrew life. The calendar itself, based on the phases of the moon, required the periodic insertion of extra months to keep it more or less synchronized with the seasons and the solar year. Passover and other holidays were tied to the cycle of the seasons.

Take a closer look at Passover and you’ll see the contrast between the annual feast days and the weekly Sabbath. Passover occurred during the first month of the religious year – Nisan. It triggered the schedule of holidays for that year. The Passover meal was followed by the week-long Feast of Unleavened Bread. During that week, on the "morrow after the sabbath,” the priest was supposed to ceremoniously wave a sheaf of newly cut barley before the Lord. (See Lev. 23:10, 11.)

This means that the Passover celebration could not begin before the barley harvest. If the barley was not mature by the beginning of Nisan an extra month would be inserted. This would push back Passover and the other holidays by a full month. Thus the feast days could wander back and forth within the seasons, depending on the agricultural cycle.

But the Sabbath, marking the perpetual rhythm of the seven-day week, was immune to the quirks of calendars, agricultural cycles, and feast days." (http://myemail.constantcontact.com/Wandering-Feast-Days.html?soid=1102336588879&aid=CGfhAYF_T-4)

 

[BABerean2]

In Acts 13:42-44, how easy it would have been for Paul to tell these gentiles, "hey, no worries, we don't have to wait until next Sabbath. I can preach to you tomorrow, and we can make some headway! Since tomorrow is the resurrection of our Lord!" But no, Paul simply went along with these gentiles, and met with them the NEXT Sabbath, where the WHOLE city came together to hear the Word of God. This would have been a perfect opportunity to introduce Sunday.

Or he could have saved some time, and preached to the Gentiles the next day on Sunday, and if he was really concerned about impressing the Jews, he would have met with the Jews the next Sabbath. Why lose all that time? It makes no sense.

While the Jews are not Christians, all those Jews that accepted Jesus Christ, BECAME Christians. And many Jews that believed CONTINUED preaching, this time the Gospel, in the Synagogues. The Synagogues BECAME the early version of "Church". In Acts 15:19-21, you have the Apostle James, testifying that these uncircumcised Christian believers, would continue to meet in the Synagogue (that is, Christian Synagogues) every Sabbath to hear the Word of God.

Now note Luke 23:56:

"And they [the women] returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment." (Luke 23:56)

Luke admits here that the Sabbath was still part of God's commandments 35 years after Christ's death on the cross. According to Hebrews 9:16-20, a covenant is not in effect until after the death of the testator and the shedding of blood. Exodus 24 confirms this where it says the covenant at Sinai was not ratified until the shedding of the blood of an Ox. That's when the covenant (which became "old" due to Israel's failure) was put in place, AFTER the Sabbath was part of "my law" in Exodus 16.

Christ had already died the day before, sealing the covenant, and the New Covenant was already in effect. IF the Sabbath was abolished with the Old Covenant, then it would have been impossible for Luke, a gentile, to recognize that the Sabbath was still "according to the commandment." Impossible. It would no longer have been part of the commandment.

In addition, it is important to realize that the Sabbath was part of "my law" (God's law, not the Law of Moses) in Exodus 16:4, before they reached Sinai. And no sacrifices were held on it, like they were held on the Passover in Exodus 12. It is disconnected from the remedial laws of Moses being spoken about in Galatians. The context of Galatians has to do with circumcision (mentioned 12 times), and the observance of feast days. Not the weekly Sabbath mentioned in stone. If Paul were including the 4th commandment, then he would be contradicting himself in Hebrews 4:9,10, where those who enter into God's eternal rest, will also cease from their own works on the seventh day as God did from His. The Sabbath REMAINS as a symbol of that eternal rest in Christ, which was offered to Israel even in the Old Testament. It is not abolished. And all those who preach such nonsense are preaching a doctrine from HELL. It is a demonic and sadistic assault on God's heavenly law.

In Acts 15, the central matter was over circumcision. Why? Because circumcision was the "entry-point" or "gateway" so to speak to the observance of the entire Ceremonial Laws of Moses. This can be testified in Exodus 12:43-49 (read them). In these passages, it tells us explicitly that in order for male gentiles to participate in the Passover, by both EATING AND KEEPING the Passover Feast, they must be circumcised. Circumcision was the "gateway" requirement for gentiles to keep the Feasts.

Not so with the Sabbath. The Sabbath was "standalone" to the festal calendar. While the weekly Sabbath was "fixed" every 7 days, the Feasts wandered and landed according to the ripening of the Barley Harvest. It was also not a requirement to be circumcised in order to keep the Sabbath. This can be attested to in the following verses:

"But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates." (Exodus 20:10)

"Six days thou shalt do thy work, and on the seventh day thou shalt rest: that thine ox and thine ass may rest, and the son of thy handmaid, and the stranger, may be refreshed."(Exodus 23:12)

Again this can be seen in Isaiah 56:1-8. Gentiles who were within the communion of Israel, were to observe the Sabbath, whether circumcised or not. It was not a requirement to be circumcised in order to keep the Sabbath. But for the Passover, which was the first of the 7 feasts of the Jewish year, they indeed were.

This proves that in Acts 15, when the question came as to whether the converted Gentiles were to observe Circumcision, and the Law of Moses or not, that the question under consideration was all those requirements which circumcision was "tied" to. Since the Sabbath is nowhere tied to circumcision in scripture, the Sabbath cannot be under consideration. And the fact that they gave them 4 commands (Fornication, Abstaining from Blood, Things Offered to Idols, and Things Strangled--commands for the Alien in Lev. 17-19) is proof positive that the Ten Commandments were not under consideration. If they were, these 4 commands would give the impression that they were now giving the Gentiles license to dishonor their parents, to seal, to covet, to murder, and take God's name in vain.

Verse 21 in Acts 15 nails it, that James still expected the Gentiles, like in the time of Moses, to continue meeting in the Synagogue every Sabbath and hear the reading of the Law of Moses. And they would be uncircumcised! Therefore, circumcision was NOT a requirement to observe the Sabbath, and since the topic of Acts 15 was circumcision, you can be sure that the Sabbath was not part of the equation of something that was to be abolished for Christians.

In addition to all that, here is some additional information:

"According to Genesis, God instituted the Sabbath to mark an invariable rhythm for human life. Six days for work, then one day for rest. This was a natural cycle, established as part of Creation itself.

The will of God regarding this seven-day cycle is reiterated in the story of the Israelites’ exodus from Egypt. Their daily sustenance was manna (“food from heaven” Ps. 78:24), which they gathered each morning, six days a week. On the seventh day there was no manna. They ate leftovers – miraculously preserved – from the previous day.

Later, at Mt. Sinai, the weekly cycle, with its Sabbath, was embedded at the heart of the Ten Commandments: “Six days shalt thou labor and do all thy work, but the seventh day is the sabbath…” Ex. 20:9, 10.

This seventh-day Sabbath was unique. It recurred with regularity without reference to the motion of sun, moon, or stars.

Not so with other important cycles in Hebrew life. The calendar itself, based on the phases of the moon, required the periodic insertion of extra months to keep it more or less synchronized with the seasons and the solar year. Passover and other holidays were tied to the cycle of the seasons.

Take a closer look at Passover and you’ll see the contrast between the annual feast days and the weekly Sabbath. Passover occurred during the first month of the religious year – Nisan. It triggered the schedule of holidays for that year. The Passover meal was followed by the week-long Feast of Unleavened Bread. During that week, on the "morrow after the sabbath,” the priest was supposed to ceremoniously wave a sheaf of newly cut barley before the Lord. (See Lev. 23:10, 11.)

This means that the Passover celebration could not begin before the barley harvest. If the barley was not mature by the beginning of Nisan an extra month would be inserted. This would push back Passover and the other holidays by a full month. Thus the feast days could wander back and forth within the seasons, depending on the agricultural cycle.

But the Sabbath, marking the perpetual rhythm of the seven-day week, was immune to the quirks of calendars, agricultural cycles, and feast days." (http://myemail.constantcontact.com/Wandering-Feast-Days.html?soid=1102336588879&aid=CGfhAYF_T-4)

Shut Door Documents from the estate of Ellen G. White
http://www.whiteestate.org/issues/shutdoor.html


.

 

[Lysimachus]

Shut Door Documents from the estate of Ellen G. White
http://www.whiteestate.org/issues/shutdoor.html


.

Already watched that video. Been thoroughly debunked eons ago.

 

[BobRyan]

You fail to admit that the law was "added" 430 years "after" the promise made to Abraham and was in effect "until" the seed (Christ) could come to whom the promise was made.

Was there ever a time - OT or NT - when taking God's name in vain was "just fine -- go ahead... do it"???

Genesis 26:"5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws."

Where there is no Law -- there is no sin. Romans 4.

"Sin IS transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4

The Law was not written on stone - until 430 years after Abraham.

 

[BABerean2]

Been thoroughly debunked eons ago.

Was it before October 22, 1844 ?


Was the Door shut or open?


Did Ellen G. White debunk it?


Shut Door Documents from the estate of Ellen G. White
http://www.whiteestate.org/issues/shutdoor.html

.

 

[Jan001]

Read the context, he's talking about eating with unwashed hands, which is a man made law not found in the Bible:
Matthew 15:2 Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread.
Matthew 15:20 These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.
Mark 7:2 And when they saw some of his disciples eat bread with defiled, that is to say, with unwashen, hands, they found fault.
Mark 7:3 For the Pharisees, and all the Jews, except they wash their hands oft, eat not, holding the tradition of the elders.
Mark 7:4 And when they come from the market, except they wash, they eat not. And many other things there be, which they have received to hold, as the washing of cups, and pots, brasen vessels, and of tables.
Mark 7:5 Then the Pharisees and scribes asked him, Why walk not thy disciples according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashen hands?
Mark 7:8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.

"Thus he declared all foods clean" is a later addition to the text by someone who failed to notice the context, it's not something Jesus said. Otherwise Peter wouldn't still be keeping kosher even after Jesus died.
Acts 10:14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.

Besides, Jesus later judged people for eating food offered to idols.
Revelation 2:14 But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.
Revelation 2:20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.
And James forbid eating blood and strangled meat:
Acts 15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

It's obvious you can be defiled by what you eat, Jesus wasn't revoking any law of God. He's be a false prophet if he did (Deuteronomy 13:1-5).

Peter did not keep kosher. Peter was criticized by the Jews for going into a Gentile's house and eating unkosher food with the men there.

Acts 11:1-14
The apostles and the believers throughout Judea heard that the Gentiles also had received the word of God. 2 So when Peter went up to Jerusalem, the circumcised believers criticized him 3 and said, “You went into the house of uncircumcised men and ate with them.”

4 Starting from the beginning, Peter told them the whole story: 5 “I was in the city of Joppa praying, and in a trance I saw a vision. I saw something like a large sheet being let down from heaven by its four corners, and it came down to where I was. 6 I looked into it and saw four-footed animals of the earth, wild beasts, reptiles and birds. 7 Then I heard a voice telling me, ‘Get up, Peter. Kill and eat.’

8 “I replied, ‘Surely not, Lord! Nothing impure or unclean has ever entered my mouth.’

9 “The voice spoke from heaven a second time, ‘Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.’ 10 This happened three times, and then it was all pulled up to heaven again. niv
​

God made all foods clean for the Christians under the New Covenant. That is why Peter went into an uncircumcised man's house and ate unkosher food with the men in the house.

Acts 15:12-20
The whole assembly became silent as they listened to Barnabas and Paul telling about the signs and wonders God had done among the Gentiles through them. 13 When they finished, James spoke up. “Brothers,” he said, “listen to me. 14 Simon has described to us how God first intervened to choose a people for his name from the Gentiles. 15 The words of the prophets are in agreement with this, as it is written:

16 “‘After this I will return
and rebuild David’s fallen tent.
Its ruins I will rebuild,
and I will restore it,
17 that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord,
even all the Gentiles who bear my name,
says the Lord, who does these things’—
18 things known from long ago.

19 “It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. 20 Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood. niv
​

Gentiles are not required to become circumcised, and they are not required to keep the dietary laws, festivals, new moons, and sabbaths of the Jews.

​

 

[klutedavid]

In Acts 13:42-44, how easy it would have been for Paul to tell these gentiles, "hey, no worries, we don't have to wait until next Sabbath. I can preach to you tomorrow, and we can make some headway! Since tomorrow is the resurrection of our Lord!" But no, Paul simply went along with these gentiles, and met with them the NEXT Sabbath, where the WHOLE city came together to hear the Word of God. This would have been a perfect opportunity to introduce Sunday.

Or he could have saved some time, and preached to the Gentiles the next day on Sunday, and if he was really concerned about impressing the Jews, he would have met with the Jews the next Sabbath. Why lose all that time? It makes no sense.

While the Jews are not Christians, all those Jews that accepted Jesus Christ, BECAME Christians. And many Jews that believed CONTINUED preaching, this time the Gospel, in the Synagogues. The Synagogues BECAME the early version of "Church". In Acts 15:19-21, you have the Apostle James, testifying that these uncircumcised Christian believers, would continue to meet in the Synagogue (that is, Christian Synagogues) every Sabbath to hear the Word of God.

Now note Luke 23:56:

"And they [the women] returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment." (Luke 23:56)

Luke admits here that the Sabbath was still part of God's commandments 35 years after Christ's death on the cross. According to Hebrews 9:16-20, a covenant is not in effect until after the death of the testator and the shedding of blood. Exodus 24 confirms this where it says the covenant at Sinai was not ratified until the shedding of the blood of an Ox. That's when the covenant (which became "old" due to Israel's failure) was put in place, AFTER the Sabbath was part of "my law" in Exodus 16.

Christ had already died the day before, sealing the covenant, and the New Covenant was already in effect. IF the Sabbath was abolished with the Old Covenant, then it would have been impossible for Luke, a gentile, to recognize that the Sabbath was still "according to the commandment." Impossible. It would no longer have been part of the commandment.

In addition, it is important to realize that the Sabbath was part of "my law" (God's law, not the Law of Moses) in Exodus 16:4, before they reached Sinai. And no sacrifices were held on it, like they were held on the Passover in Exodus 12. It is disconnected from the remedial laws of Moses being spoken about in Galatians. The context of Galatians has to do with circumcision (mentioned 12 times), and the observance of feast days. Not the weekly Sabbath mentioned in stone. If Paul were including the 4th commandment, then he would be contradicting himself in Hebrews 4:9,10, where those who enter into God's eternal rest, will also cease from their own works on the seventh day as God did from His. The Sabbath REMAINS as a symbol of that eternal rest in Christ, which was offered to Israel even in the Old Testament. It is not abolished. And all those who preach such nonsense are preaching a doctrine from HELL. It is a demonic and sadistic assault on God's heavenly law.

In Acts 15, the central matter was over circumcision. Why? Because circumcision was the "entry-point" or "gateway" so to speak to the observance of the entire Ceremonial Laws of Moses. This can be testified in Exodus 12:43-49 (read them). In these passages, it tells us explicitly that in order for male gentiles to participate in the Passover, by both EATING AND KEEPING the Passover Feast, they must be circumcised. Circumcision was the "gateway" requirement for gentiles to keep the Feasts.

Not so with the Sabbath. The Sabbath was "standalone" to the festal calendar. While the weekly Sabbath was "fixed" every 7 days, the Feasts wandered and landed according to the ripening of the Barley Harvest. It was also not a requirement to be circumcised in order to keep the Sabbath. This can be attested to in the following verses:

"But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates." (Exodus 20:10)

"Six days thou shalt do thy work, and on the seventh day thou shalt rest: that thine ox and thine ass may rest, and the son of thy handmaid, and the stranger, may be refreshed."(Exodus 23:12)

Again this can be seen in Isaiah 56:1-8. Gentiles who were within the communion of Israel, were to observe the Sabbath, whether circumcised or not. It was not a requirement to be circumcised in order to keep the Sabbath. But for the Passover, which was the first of the 7 feasts of the Jewish year, they indeed were.

This proves that in Acts 15, when the question came as to whether the converted Gentiles were to observe Circumcision, and the Law of Moses or not, that the question under consideration was all those requirements which circumcision was "tied" to. Since the Sabbath is nowhere tied to circumcision in scripture, the Sabbath cannot be under consideration. And the fact that they gave them 4 commands (Fornication, Abstaining from Blood, Things Offered to Idols, and Things Strangled--commands for the Alien in Lev. 17-19) is proof positive that the Ten Commandments were not under consideration. If they were, these 4 commands would give the impression that they were now giving the Gentiles license to dishonor their parents, to seal, to covet, to murder, and take God's name in vain.

Verse 21 in Acts 15 nails it, that James still expected the Gentiles, like in the time of Moses, to continue meeting in the Synagogue every Sabbath and hear the reading of the Law of Moses. And they would be uncircumcised! Therefore, circumcision was NOT a requirement to observe the Sabbath, and since the topic of Acts 15 was circumcision, you can be sure that the Sabbath was not part of the equation of something that was to be abolished for Christians.

In addition to all that, here is some additional information:

"According to Genesis, God instituted the Sabbath to mark an invariable rhythm for human life. Six days for work, then one day for rest. This was a natural cycle, established as part of Creation itself.

The will of God regarding this seven-day cycle is reiterated in the story of the Israelites’ exodus from Egypt. Their daily sustenance was manna (“food from heaven” Ps. 78:24), which they gathered each morning, six days a week. On the seventh day there was no manna. They ate leftovers – miraculously preserved – from the previous day.

Later, at Mt. Sinai, the weekly cycle, with its Sabbath, was embedded at the heart of the Ten Commandments: “Six days shalt thou labor and do all thy work, but the seventh day is the sabbath…” Ex. 20:9, 10.

This seventh-day Sabbath was unique. It recurred with regularity without reference to the motion of sun, moon, or stars.

Not so with other important cycles in Hebrew life. The calendar itself, based on the phases of the moon, required the periodic insertion of extra months to keep it more or less synchronized with the seasons and the solar year. Passover and other holidays were tied to the cycle of the seasons.

Take a closer look at Passover and you’ll see the contrast between the annual feast days and the weekly Sabbath. Passover occurred during the first month of the religious year – Nisan. It triggered the schedule of holidays for that year. The Passover meal was followed by the week-long Feast of Unleavened Bread. During that week, on the "morrow after the sabbath,” the priest was supposed to ceremoniously wave a sheaf of newly cut barley before the Lord. (See Lev. 23:10, 11.)

This means that the Passover celebration could not begin before the barley harvest. If the barley was not mature by the beginning of Nisan an extra month would be inserted. This would push back Passover and the other holidays by a full month. Thus the feast days could wander back and forth within the seasons, depending on the agricultural cycle.

But the Sabbath, marking the perpetual rhythm of the seven-day week, was immune to the quirks of calendars, agricultural cycles, and feast days." (http://myemail.constantcontact.com/Wandering-Feast-Days.html?soid=1102336588879&aid=CGfhAYF_T-4)

Hello Lysimachus.

The material presented in this post of yours, have you copied this from a book,
or is this your own handiwork?

 

[Jan001]

In Acts 13:42-44, how easy it would have been for Paul to tell these gentiles, "hey, no worries, we don't have to wait until next Sabbath. I can preach to you tomorrow, and we can make some headway! Since tomorrow is the resurrection of our Lord!" But no, Paul simply went along with these gentiles, and met with them the NEXT Sabbath, where the WHOLE city came together to hear the Word of God. This would have been a perfect opportunity to introduce Sunday.

Or he could have saved some time, and preached to the Gentiles the next day on Sunday, and if he was really concerned about impressing the Jews, he would have met with the Jews the next Sabbath. Why lose all that time? It makes no sense.

While the Jews are not Christians, all those Jews that accepted Jesus Christ, BECAME Christians. And many Jews that believed CONTINUED preaching, this time the Gospel, in the Synagogues. The Synagogues BECAME the early version of "Church". In Acts 15:19-21, you have the Apostle James, testifying that these uncircumcised Christian believers, would continue to meet in the Synagogue (that is, Christian Synagogues) every Sabbath to hear the Word of God.

Now note Luke 23:56:

"And they [the women] returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment." (Luke 23:56)

Luke admits here that the Sabbath was still part of God's commandments 35 years after Christ's death on the cross. According to Hebrews 9:16-20, a covenant is not in effect until after the death of the testator and the shedding of blood. Exodus 24 confirms this where it says the covenant at Sinai was not ratified until the shedding of the blood of an Ox. That's when the covenant (which became "old" due to Israel's failure) was put in place, AFTER the Sabbath was part of "my law" in Exodus 16.

Christ had already died the day before, sealing the covenant, and the New Covenant was already in effect. IF the Sabbath was abolished with the Old Covenant, then it would have been impossible for Luke, a gentile, to recognize that the Sabbath was still "according to the commandment." Impossible. It would no longer have been part of the commandment.

In addition, it is important to realize that the Sabbath was part of "my law" (God's law, not the Law of Moses) in Exodus 16:4, before they reached Sinai. And no sacrifices were held on it, like they were held on the Passover in Exodus 12. It is disconnected from the remedial laws of Moses being spoken about in Galatians. The context of Galatians has to do with circumcision (mentioned 12 times), and the observance of feast days. Not the weekly Sabbath mentioned in stone. If Paul were including the 4th commandment, then he would be contradicting himself in Hebrews 4:9,10, where those who enter into God's eternal rest, will also cease from their own works on the seventh day as God did from His. The Sabbath REMAINS as a symbol of that eternal rest in Christ, which was offered to Israel even in the Old Testament. It is not abolished. And all those who preach such nonsense are preaching a doctrine from HELL. It is a demonic and sadistic assault on God's heavenly law.

In Acts 15, the central matter was over circumcision. Why? Because circumcision was the "entry-point" or "gateway" so to speak to the observance of the entire Ceremonial Laws of Moses. This can be testified in Exodus 12:43-49 (read them). In these passages, it tells us explicitly that in order for male gentiles to participate in the Passover, by both EATING AND KEEPING the Passover Feast, they must be circumcised. Circumcision was the "gateway" requirement for gentiles to keep the Feasts.

Not so with the Sabbath. The Sabbath was "standalone" to the festal calendar. While the weekly Sabbath was "fixed" every 7 days, the Feasts wandered and landed according to the ripening of the Barley Harvest. It was also not a requirement to be circumcised in order to keep the Sabbath. This can be attested to in the following verses:

"But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates." (Exodus 20:10)

"Six days thou shalt do thy work, and on the seventh day thou shalt rest: that thine ox and thine ass may rest, and the son of thy handmaid, and the stranger, may be refreshed."(Exodus 23:12)

Again this can be seen in Isaiah 56:1-8. Gentiles who were within the communion of Israel, were to observe the Sabbath, whether circumcised or not. It was not a requirement to be circumcised in order to keep the Sabbath. But for the Passover, which was the first of the 7 feasts of the Jewish year, they indeed were.

This proves that in Acts 15, when the question came as to whether the converted Gentiles were to observe Circumcision, and the Law of Moses or not, that the question under consideration was all those requirements which circumcision was "tied" to. Since the Sabbath is nowhere tied to circumcision in scripture, the Sabbath cannot be under consideration. And the fact that they gave them 4 commands (Fornication, Abstaining from Blood, Things Offered to Idols, and Things Strangled--commands for the Alien in Lev. 17-19) is proof positive that the Ten Commandments were not under consideration. If they were, these 4 commands would give the impression that they were now giving the Gentiles license to dishonor their parents, to seal, to covet, to murder, and take God's name in vain.

Verse 21 in Acts 15 nails it, that James still expected the Gentiles, like in the time of Moses, to continue meeting in the Synagogue every Sabbath and hear the reading of the Law of Moses. And they would be uncircumcised! Therefore, circumcision was NOT a requirement to observe the Sabbath, and since the topic of Acts 15 was circumcision, you can be sure that the Sabbath was not part of the equation of something that was to be abolished for Christians.

In addition to all that, here is some additional information:

"According to Genesis, God instituted the Sabbath to mark an invariable rhythm for human life. Six days for work, then one day for rest. This was a natural cycle, established as part of Creation itself.

The will of God regarding this seven-day cycle is reiterated in the story of the Israelites’ exodus from Egypt. Their daily sustenance was manna (“food from heaven” Ps. 78:24), which they gathered each morning, six days a week. On the seventh day there was no manna. They ate leftovers – miraculously preserved – from the previous day.

Later, at Mt. Sinai, the weekly cycle, with its Sabbath, was embedded at the heart of the Ten Commandments: “Six days shalt thou labor and do all thy work, but the seventh day is the sabbath…” Ex. 20:9, 10.

This seventh-day Sabbath was unique. It recurred with regularity without reference to the motion of sun, moon, or stars.

Not so with other important cycles in Hebrew life. The calendar itself, based on the phases of the moon, required the periodic insertion of extra months to keep it more or less synchronized with the seasons and the solar year. Passover and other holidays were tied to the cycle of the seasons.

Take a closer look at Passover and you’ll see the contrast between the annual feast days and the weekly Sabbath. Passover occurred during the first month of the religious year – Nisan. It triggered the schedule of holidays for that year. The Passover meal was followed by the week-long Feast of Unleavened Bread. During that week, on the "morrow after the sabbath,” the priest was supposed to ceremoniously wave a sheaf of newly cut barley before the Lord. (See Lev. 23:10, 11.)

This means that the Passover celebration could not begin before the barley harvest. If the barley was not mature by the beginning of Nisan an extra month would be inserted. This would push back Passover and the other holidays by a full month. Thus the feast days could wander back and forth within the seasons, depending on the agricultural cycle.

But the Sabbath, marking the perpetual rhythm of the seven-day week, was immune to the quirks of calendars, agricultural cycles, and feast days." (http://myemail.constantcontact.com/Wandering-Feast-Days.html?soid=1102336588879&aid=CGfhAYF_T-4)

It is true that God hallowed the seventh day because He rested on it after creating the physical heavens and earth. It is true that much later God commanded a sabbath law for the Israelites. This Sabbath law was never commanded for the Gentiles. The law of Moses with its priesthood, its sabbaths, its dietary laws, and its animal sacrifices, etc., passed away completely when the temple was destroyed.

RE:

Luke 23:56
Then they went home and prepared spices and perfumes. But they rested on the Sabbath in obedience to the commandment. rsv
​

Jesus did not rise from the dead until the next day, Sunday, so of course these Jewish women rested on Saturday, the Sabbath day of the Jews.

These women did not yet know that Jesus would rise from the dead and change the worship day to Sunday for His new priesthood and His New Covenant. These women believed that Jesus was dead and that He would stay dead and that is why they wanted to give Him a proper burial.

Hebrews 7:12
For when the priesthood is changed, the law must be changed also.​

The Jewish way of life, their covenant, and their priesthood passed away when their temple was destroyed.

Christians have their own feast days: they celebrate the events in Jesus Christ's life; they commemorate his death, and they rejoice in His resurrection.

Scripture states that the law must be changed when the priesthood is changed. Christians do not keep the laws/commandments of the law of Moses. Christians are not under the Levitic priesthood. They are under the Melchizedek priesthood of Jesus Christ.

RE: In Acts 15:19-21, you have the Apostle James, testifying that these uncircumcised Christian believers, would continue to meet in the Synagogue (that is, Christian Synagogues) every Sabbath to hear the Word of God.

Acts 15:19-21
It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. 20 Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood. 21 For the law of Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath.” niv​

REPLY:
From the earliest times (since the synagogues came into existence) the Jews met in these synagogues every Sabbath to hear the law of Moses preached. Paul went to the synagogues to preach to the Jews and to the devout Greek converts who practiced the Jewish faith. Paul did not go to the synagogues to preach to the Gentile Christians. The Gentile Christians were not allowed in the Jews' synagogues. Paul could preach in the synagogues because he was a Jew by birth.

The Christians did not meet in the synagogues on the Sabbath. Acts 20:7

Acts 5:42
Day after day, in the temple courts and from house to house, they never stopped teaching and proclaiming the good news that Jesus is the Messiah. niv

Acts 8:3
But Saul began to destroy the church. Going from house to house, he dragged off both men and women and put them in prison. niv​

 

[BobRyan]

You fail to admit that the law was "added" 430 years "after" the promise made to Abraham

.

Was there ever a time - OT or NT - when taking God's name in vain was "just fine -- go ahead... do it"???

Genesis 26:"5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws."

Gal 1:6-9 - there is only ONE Gospel
Gal 3:7 the Gospel was preached to Abraham

Where there is no Law -- there is no sin. Romans 4.

"Sin IS transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4

The Law was not written on stone - until 430 years after Abraham.

NEW Covenant - Jer 31:31-33 "I will write My LAWS on their heart and mind"
NEW Covenant Heb 8:6-10 "I will write My LAWS on their heart and mind"

Was it before October 22, 1844 ?
Was the Door shut or open?
Did Ellen G. White debunk it?

Shut Door Documents from the estate of Ellen G. White
http://www.whiteestate.org/issues/shutdoor.html

.

Earth to BABeran2 -- feel free to join the conversation

 

[Travis93]

Was there ever a time - OT or NT - when taking God's name in vain was "just fine -- go ahead... do it"???

Genesis 26:"5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws."

Gal 1:6-9 - there is only ONE Gospel
Gal 3:7 the Gospel was preached to Abraham

Where there is no Law -- there is no sin. Romans 4.

"Sin IS transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4

The Law was not written on stone - until 430 years after Abraham.

NEW Covenant - Jer 31:31-33 "I will write My LAWS on their heart and mind"
NEW Covenant Heb 8:6-10 "I will write My LAWS on their heart and mind"



Earth to BABeran2 -- feel free to join the conversation

All I can say is the people rejecting the law are going to be in for a surprise in the future when the whole world is subject to it (Isaiah 2:2-3, Micah 4:1-2).
Zechariah 14:19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Isaiah 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.
Isaiah 66:15 For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.
Isaiah 66:16 For by fire and by his sword will the Lord plead with all flesh: and the slain of the Lord shall be many.
Isaiah 66:17 They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the Lord.

 

[BABerean2]

Was there ever a time - OT or NT - when taking God's name in vain was "just fine -- go ahead... do it"???

Genesis 26:"5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws."

Gal 1:6-9 - there is only ONE Gospel
Gal 3:7 the Gospel was preached to Abraham

Where there is no Law -- there is no sin. Romans 4.

"Sin IS transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4

The Law was not written on stone - until 430 years after Abraham.

NEW Covenant - Jer 31:31-33 "I will write My LAWS on their heart and mind"
NEW Covenant Heb 8:6-10 "I will write My LAWS on their heart and mind"



Earth to BABeran2 -- feel free to join the conversation

The same conversation we have had before where you selectively quote out of context and you know it...

You know, like the commandments that God gave to Abraham.

Go to a land I will show you...

Circumcise your male offspring...


You also have a habit of quoting part of 1 John...

1Jn_2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.


but you fail to give the text that reveals your error...

1Jn 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
1Jn 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
1Jn 3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.


You do not want to talk about "the Great Disappointment" of October 22, 1844 for some reason.

And like Ellen G. White, you cannot decide if the door is shut or open.

Shut Door Documents from the estate of Ellen G. White
http://www.whiteestate.org/issues/shutdoor.html


Paul became so frustrated with the Judaisers that he finally gave them some advice.

Surely, the same advice would apply to the Judaisers of our time.

Gal 5:12 I wish those who unsettle you would emasculate themselves!



This week Pastor Chuck Baldwin wrote an article on the same subject.

Castrated Churches:
http://www.newswithviews.com/baldwin/baldwin923.htm

.

 

[BobRyan]

The same conversation we have had before where you selectively quote out of context and you know it...

You know, like the commandments that God gave to Abraham.

On the contrary - I constantly quote Genesis 26:4-5 while you ignore the text altogether. How is that possibly a problem for my POV??

Please be serious.

Try to answer this point.

===========================================================

Some would argue that people in the bible take Lev 19:18 "Love your neighbor as yourself"
and Deut 6:5 "Love God with all your heart"
as Laws to be used to delete God's spoken Word in Ex 20 - the TEN Commandments.

Law spoken by God and written in stone - where we are then told in Deut 5 "And He added no more" -- .

Well that sort of guesswork will not hold up to the "Sola Scriptura" test -- and we all know it.

Most impressively - so also do many pro-sunday scholars know it.

They know that the Ten Commandments were not deleted by Lev 19:18 or Deut 6:5 in either the OT or the NT.

Nor is there a NT text saying 'these two laws delete the OT, delete scripture, delete the commandments of God.."

Eph 6:2 the text many might prefer to religiously avoid says --> "Honor your father and Mother - which is the FIRST commandment with a promise"

Question for the group: -- FIRST commandment WHERE??

first in Lev 19:18???? is that where the 5th commandment is the "First commandment with a promise"?? No!!

how about in Deut 6:5?? is that where the 5th commandment is the "First commandment with a promise"?? No!!

How about John 13?? is that where the 5th commandment is the "First commandment with a promise"?? No!!

How about first commandment in Gal 5:14 "with a promise"??? -- No! not that one either.

We can all see this. So no debate at all so far.

 

[BABerean2]

On the contrary - I constantly quote Genesis 26:4-5 while you ignore the text altogether. How is that possibly a problem for my POV??

Please be serious.

Try to answer this point.

Based on your logic, if God gave Abraham any commandments it must have been the Sinai commandments.


Based on your logic, it would have nothing to do with God's commandment for Abraham to circumcise his male offspring, which is not required under the New Covenant, unless you are a Judaiser of course.

This is a part of your bait-and-switch sales job.

And even though the Sabbath is the "sign" of the Old broken Sinai covenant, you continue to apply it to the New Covenant.

You continue to ignore Colossians 2:16-17 and Acts 20:7.

You ignore Paul's clear statement that the Old Covenant was "added" 430 years "after" the promise to Abraham "until" the seed (Christ) could come to whom the promise was made, found in Galatians chapter 3.

You ignore the Sinai covenant of bondage in Galatians chapter 4 and the yoke in Galatians chapter 5.

It is a great disappointment.

Shut Door Documents from the estate of Ellen G. White
http://www.whiteestate.org/issues/shutdoor.html

.

 

[BobRyan]

The same conversation we have had before where you selectively quote out of context and you know it...

You know, like the commandments that God gave to Abraham.

On the contrary - I constantly quote Genesis 26:4-5 while you ignore the text altogether. How is that possibly a problem for my POV??

Please be serious.

Try to answer this point.

=============================================

Some would argue that people in the bible take Lev 19:18 "Love your neighbor as yourself"
and Deut 6:5 "Love God with all your heart"
as Laws to be used to delete God's spoken Word in Ex 20 - the TEN Commandments.

Law spoken by God and written in stone - where we are then told in Deut 5 "And He added no more" -- .

Well that sort of guesswork will not hold up to the "Sola Scriptura" test -- and we all know it.

Most impressively - so also do many pro-sunday scholars know it.

They know that the Ten Commandments were not deleted by Lev 19:18 or Deut 6:5 in either the OT or the NT.

Nor is there a NT text saying 'these two laws delete the OT, delete scripture, delete the commandments of God.."

Eph 6:2 the text many might prefer to religiously avoid says --> "Honor your father and Mother - which is the FIRST commandment with a promise"

Question for the group: -- FIRST commandment WHERE??

first in Lev 19:18???? is that where the 5th commandment is the "First commandment with a promise"?? No!!

how about in Deut 6:5?? is that where the 5th commandment is the "First commandment with a promise"?? No!!

How about John 13?? is that where the 5th commandment is the "First commandment with a promise"?? No!!

How about first commandment in Gal 5:14 "with a promise"??? -- No! not that one either.

We can all see this. So no debate at all so far.

Based on your logic, if God gave Abraham any commandments it must have been the Sinai commandments.

1. Your need to ignore the Eph 6:2 majority of the post you are responding to -- "noted".

2. Moses writes Exodus 20... .Moses writes Genesis 26:5... Moses is writing for the same group of contemporary readers.

3. Another example - Genesis 7 "clean vs unclean" animals as in Genesis 9. The term is not defined for the reader - until Leviticus 11.

Your argument that we must surely ignore all of these details so we can insert confusion into the text - is not sound.

Rather it is a great disappointment.

It is a great disappointment.

Indeed.

 

[Jan001]

On the contrary - I constantly quote Genesis 26:4-5 while you ignore the text altogether. How is that possibly a problem for my POV??

Please be serious.

Try to answer this point.

===========================================================

Some would argue that people in the bible take Lev 19:18 "Love your neighbor as yourself"
and Deut 6:5 "Love God with all your heart"
as Laws to be used to delete God's spoken Word in Ex 20 - the TEN Commandments.

Law spoken by God and written in stone - where we are then told in Deut 5 "And He added no more" -- .

Well that sort of guesswork will not hold up to the "Sola Scriptura" test -- and we all know it.

Most impressively - so also do many pro-sunday scholars know it.

They know that the Ten Commandments were not deleted by Lev 19:18 or Deut 6:5 in either the OT or the NT.

Nor is there a NT text saying 'these two laws delete the OT, delete scripture, delete the commandments of God.."

Eph 6:2 the text many might prefer to religiously avoid says --> "Honor your father and Mother - which is the FIRST commandment with a promise"

Question for the group: -- FIRST commandment WHERE??

first in Lev 19:18???? is that where the 5th commandment is the "First commandment with a promise"?? No!!

how about in Deut 6:5?? is that where the 5th commandment is the "First commandment with a promise"?? No!!

How about John 13?? is that where the 5th commandment is the "First commandment with a promise"?? No!!

How about first commandment in Gal 5:14 "with a promise"??? -- No! not that one either.

We can all see this. So no debate at all so far.

I am still waiting for an answer to the following:

How do you explain the following:

Hebrews 7:12
For when there is a change in the priesthood, there is necessarily a change in the law as well. rsv

Romans 6:14-16
For sin (transgressions committed against the commands in the law of Moses) will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace. 15 What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means! 16 Do you not know that if you yield yourselves to any one as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness? rsv

 

[BABerean2]

On the contrary - I constantly quote Genesis 26:4-5 while you ignore the text altogether. How is that possibly a problem for my POV??

Please be serious.

Try to answer this point.

You are absolutely correct on this point in that nine of the ten commandments are repeated somewhere in the New Testament. However, your 4th commandment is not part of the New Covenant, based on Colossians 2:16-17, and Acts 20:7.

In Matthew chapter 5 Christ places us under a more rigorous covenant.

Mat 5:21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:

Mat 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

Mat 5:23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;

Mat 5:24 Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.

Mat 5:25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.

Mat 5:26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.

Mat 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:

Mat 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.




Gal 5:12 I wish those who unsettle you would emasculate themselves!

Shut Door Documents from the estate of Ellen G. White
http://www.whiteestate.org/issues/shutdoor.html

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[Jan001]

Was there ever a time - OT or NT - when taking God's name in vain was "just fine -- go ahead... do it"???

Genesis 26:"5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws."

Gal 1:6-9 - there is only ONE Gospel
Gal 3:7 the Gospel was preached to Abraham

Where there is no Law -- there is no sin. Romans 4.

"Sin IS transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4

The Law was not written on stone - until 430 years after Abraham.

NEW Covenant - Jer 31:31-33 "I will write My LAWS on their heart and mind"
NEW Covenant Heb 8:6-10 "I will write My LAWS on their heart and mind"



Earth to BABeran2 -- feel free to join the conversation

What gospel (Galatians 1:6-9, 3:7) did God preach to Abraham?

God certainly did not preach the same exact Ten Commandments of the law of Moses to Abraham. The law of Moses and the Ten Commandments that were given to Moses did not exist until 430 years later. The sabbath law given to the Israelites did not exist until 430 years after God preached the gospel to Abraham.

Galatians 3:13-18
Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed be every one who hangs on a tree”— 14 that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
15 To give a human example, brethren: no one annuls even a man’s will, or adds to it, once it has been ratified. 16 Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his offspring. It does not say, “And to offsprings,” referring to many; but, referring to one, “And to your offspring,” which is Christ. 17 This is what I mean: the law, which came four hundred and thirty years afterward, does not annul a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to make the promise void. 18 For if the inheritance is by the law, it is no longer by promise; but God gave it to Abraham by a promise. rsv


Galatians 3:16
Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his offspring. It does not say, “And to offsprings,” referring to many; but, referring to one, “And to your offspring,” which is Christ. rsv

Galatians 3:19
Why then the law? It was added because of transgressions (the Israelites' disobedience in the desert and their worship of the golden calf), till the offspring (Jesus Christ) should come to whom the promise had been made; and it was ordained by angels through an intermediary. rsv
​

Abraham was not ever under the law of Moses and no Christians today are under the law of Moses. Christians are under the law of grace through their faith in Jesus Christ just the same as Abraham was under the law of grace through his faith in God.

Hebrews 11:8
By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to a place which he was to receive as an inheritance; and he went out, not knowing where he was to go. rsv

Hebrews 11:17
By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises was ready to offer up his only son, rsv

Romans 6:14
For sin (sin committed against the laws in the law of Moses) will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.

​

The gospel preached to Abraham:

Abraham's offspring (Jesus Christ) will make it possible for Abraham's descendants to receive the Holy Spirit by grace through faith just as Abraham received the Holy Spirit by grace through faith.

The gospel that was preached to Abraham is that his offspring Jesus Christ will save/justify Abraham's descendants in every nation by faith and they will receive the Holy Spirit. If they remain faithful to God through their many trials and tribulations until they die, they will inherit eternal life and the world.

Acts 10:34-35
And Peter opened his mouth and said: “Truly I perceive that God shows no partiality, 35 but in every nation any one who fears him and does what is right is acceptable to him. rsv

Romans 4:13
The promise to Abraham and his descendants, that they should inherit the world, did not come through the law but through the righteousness of faith. rsv

Romans 4:15-17
For the law brings wrath, but where there is no law there is no transgression. 16 That is why it depends on faith, in order that the promise may rest on grace and be guaranteed to all his descendants—not only to the adherents of the law but also to those who share the faith of Abraham, for he is the father of us all, 17 as it is written, “I have made you the father of many nations”—in the presence of the God in whom he believed, who gives life to the dead and calls into existence the things that do not exist. rsv


Ephesians 2:1-10
And you he made alive, when you were dead through the trespasses and sins 2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience. 3 Among these we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, following the desires of body and mind, and so we were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. 4 But God, who is rich in mercy, out of the great love with which he loved us, 5 even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up with him, and made us sit with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God— 9 not because of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them. rsv
​

The law of Moses/first covenant was added because of the Israelites' many sins. This first covenant which we now call the old covenant was to remain in force only until Abraham's offspring, Jesus Christ, should come to finish/fulfill the law of Moses and to give His new law/covenant to His Church/followers.

After Jesus' resurrection, "Then he said to them, 'These are my words which I spoke to you, while I was still with you, that everything written about me in the law of Moses and the prophets and the psalms must be fulfilled (finished).'” Luke 24:44 rsv

John 19:30

When Jesus had received the vinegar, he said, “It is finished”; and he bowed his head and gave up his spirit. rsv​

​

Jesus finished/fulfilled the law of Moses by His dying on the cross.

Galatians 3:10-14
For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed be every one who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law, and do them.” 11 Now it is evident that no man is justified before God by the law; for “He who through faith is righteous shall live”; 12 but the law does not rest on faith, for “He who does them shall live by them.” 13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed be every one who hangs on a tree”— 14 that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

​

Christians are not under the law of Moses/first covenant aka old covenant.

13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us - so that we might receive the Holy Spirit who was promised to us through our faith in Jesus Christ.​

IOW, Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law (of Moses), having become a curse for us (having died on the cross for us) so that we may be justified/saved by faith and receive the Holy Spirit.
The law of Moses with its Levite priesthood and its sabbath laws is not valid for Christians.