IDF kills another Palestinian protester in Biliin

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Given that only a very small percentage of Israelis and Palestinians are Christians, if you believe this verse still applies to the current situation it basically means that you would probably support killing off approximately 90% or more of the population on both sides- every Muslim and every Jew as well as the sprinkle or so of atheists or followers of other faiths in the region like the Druze.

I would not support this, but I can read where God says it.

The New Testament teaches that God will exact condemnation not man.

I believe Paul says as much in Romans 12:19, but by that logic, the Old Testament says the exact same thing. Paul is quoting Deuteronomy 32:35.

Vengeance is Mine, and retribution, In due time their foot will slip; For the day of their calamity is near,

What are some of the things God uses as agents of His vengeance? Sometimes He uses people as Paul reminds us in Romans 9.

17For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "(Quotes Exodus 9:16)FOR THIS VERY PURPOSE I RAISED YOU UP, TO DEMONSTRATE MY POWER IN YOU, AND THAT MY NAME MIGHT BE PROCLAIMED THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE EARTH."
18So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires.

How do you know that God doesn't want His enemies to fight each other?

Furthermore Jesus said "let he who is without sin cast the first stone" (John 8:7)

Are you claiming you are in a state on sin right now? The Word is clear that a real Christian cannot sin.

1 John 3:4-8

4 Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness.
5You know that He appeared in order to take away sins; and in Him there is no sin.
6No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him.
7Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous;
8the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil.

and that those who judge others and condemn others will be judged and condemned by God (Luke 6:37).

And you claimed I was quoting out of context. :lol:
Luke 6 is close to the same sermon given at the beginning of Matthew 7.

Read further into chapter 6. This is a warning against hypocritical judgment. It would be like me sitting here smoking a joint telling you to not do drugs.

37"Do not judge, and you will not be judged; and do not condemn, and you will not be condemned; pardon, and you will be pardoned.
38"Give, and it will be given to you. They will pour into your lap a good measure--pressed down, shaken together, and running over. For by your standard of measure it will be measured to you in return."
39And He also spoke a parable to them: "A blind man cannot guide a blind man, can he? Will they not both fall into a pit?
40"A pupil is not above his teacher; but everyone, after he has been fully trained, will be like his teacher.
41"Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?
42"Or how can you say to your brother, 'Brother, let me take out the speck that is in your eye,' when you yourself do not see the log that is in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take out the speck that is in your brother's eye.

The murder of this Palestinian woman was not justified by God, any more than God would justify rockets from Gaza hitting kindegartens in Ashkelon.

The Bible says the land is theirs.

 

[MacNeil, D.]

I just mentioned them.

Sucks to be a Palestinian protester.

 

[TG123]

Sucks to be a Palestinian protester.

Your copying and pasting skills are impressive. Bravo!

 

[TG123]

I would not support this, but I can read where God says it.

I believe Paul says as much in Romans 12:19, but by that logic, the Old Testament says the exact same thing. Paul is quoting Deuteronomy 32:35.

Vengeance is Mine, and retribution, In due time their foot will slip; For the day of their calamity is near,

What are some of the things God uses as agents of His vengeance? Sometimes He uses people as Paul reminds us in Romans 9.

17For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "(Quotes Exodus 9:16)FOR THIS VERY PURPOSE I RAISED YOU UP, TO DEMONSTRATE MY POWER IN YOU, AND THAT MY NAME MIGHT BE PROCLAIMED THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE EARTH."
18So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires.

How do you know that God doesn't want His enemies to fight each other?

Whether He allows them to fight or not, God also calls on us to be peacemakers. He also calls on us to hunger and thirst, and if necessary, to suffer for righteousness. Armed conflict usually involves injustice, given that most people who die are civilians and armed groups usually take advantage of their power to brutalize civilians. I have seen the IDF and settlers do this to Palestinian civilians, and have no doubt Hamas does it to Palestinian civilians in Gaza and does it to Israeli civilians in Ashqelon.

I am not saying that God does not allow war to happen, I am saying that He calls on Christians to be active in opposing the calamities they create- and I believe as well that the call to be peacemakers alongside the call to love enemies and turn the other cheek means Christians should not engage in wars.

Are you claiming you are in a state on sin right now? The Word is clear that a real Christian cannot sin.

1 John 3:4-8

4 Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness.
5You know that He appeared in order to take away sins; and in Him there is no sin.
6No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him.
7Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous;
8the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil.

The Word says that are not to abide in sins- ie live in them. It is one thing for Christians to struggle and make mistakes, it is another to accept a sin and say "well what does it matter, I'll continue doing it".

Think of a person who was an alcoholic and became a Christian. Do you think he will not struggle with the temptation to get drunk like he used to the day he becomes a believer? Chances are he will struggle with tha and it will take a long time, perhaps years, of prayer and struggle before he kicks it. Not the same as someone who says "well God will forgive me. Cheers!"

Even Paul struggled with sin:

Romans 7:14-21

14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature.[a] For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

21 So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? 25 Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature[b] a slave to the law of sin.

And you claimed I was quoting out of context. :lol:

I think that was someone else.

Luke 6 is close to the same sermon given at the beginning of Matthew 7.

Read further into chapter 6. This is a warning against hypocritical judgment. It would be like me sitting here smoking a joint telling you to not do drugs.

37"Do not judge, and you will not be judged; and do not condemn, and you will not be condemned; pardon, and you will be pardoned.
38"Give, and it will be given to you. They will pour into your lap a good measure--pressed down, shaken together, and running over. For by your standard of measure it will be measured to you in return."
39And He also spoke a parable to them: "A blind man cannot guide a blind man, can he? Will they not both fall into a pit?
40"A pupil is not above his teacher; but everyone, after he has been fully trained, will be like his teacher.
41"Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?
42"Or how can you say to your brother, 'Brother, let me take out the speck that is in your eye,' when you yourself do not see the log that is in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take out the speck that is in your brother's eye.

I wasn't referring to verses 37-42, but the situation aptly applies to all of us. Everyone of us has a log in their eye, everyone of us struggles with sin.

John makes it very clear we do sin, although we need to run from it and confess to God when we do. He is not saying to go sin all you want. He also is not saying that Christians are sinless.

1 John 1:8-10
8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in

The Bible says the land is theirs.

Israel will be restored by God in the end times. It will be given then to Christians.

Romans 4:13, “For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.”

This is a Christian site which has several articles about zionism. I encourage you to check it out.

The Scripture That Zionists Ignore


God bless.

 

[MacNeil, D.]

Your copying and pasting skills are impressive. Bravo!

Its easy for most people, you should learn how.

Are you still weepy over that guy? Isn't he still dead?

 

[TG123]

Its easy for most people, you should learn how.

Thanks, I already know.

Are you still weepy over that guy? Isn't he still dead?

Why do you ask?

 

[MacNeil, D.]

Thanks, I already know.


Why do you ask?

Just wondering if all your hand wringing has done any good.

 

[TG123]

Just wondering if all your hand wringing has done any good.

Hand wringing? I wrote a post expressing sadness and outrage at the killing of a Palestinian woman who was protesting the theft of her village's land.

Sounds like you are happy she was killed.

 

[Avatar]

Whether He allows them to fight or not, God also calls on us to be peacemakers. He also calls on us to hunger and thirst, and if necessary, to suffer for righteousness. Armed conflict usually involves injustice, given that most people who die are civilians and armed groups usually take advantage of their power to brutalize civilians. I have seen the IDF and settlers do this to Palestinian civilians, and have no doubt Hamas does it to Palestinian civilians in Gaza and does it to Israeli civilians in Ashqelon.

What does social justice have to do with what the Bible says the Israelis are supposed to do?

Did God change His mind or something?

Deuteronmy 7 1When the LORD thy God shall bring thee into the land whither thou goest to possess it, and hath cast out many nations before thee, the Hittites, and the Girga[bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]es, and the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and mightier than thou;
2And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them:
3Neither shalt thou make marriages with them; thy daughter thou shalt not give unto his son, nor his daughter shalt thou take unto thy son.
4For they will turn away thy son from following me, that they may serve other gods: so will the anger of the LORD be kindled against you, and destroy thee suddenly.
5But thus shall ye deal with them; ye shall destroy their altars, and break down their images, and cut down their groves, and burn their graven images with fire.
6For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

I am not saying that God does not allow war to happen, I am saying that He calls on Christians to be active in opposing the calamities they create-

Why should we oppose what was already ordained?

Isaiah 11 12And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.
13The envy also of Ephraim shall depart, and the adversaries of Judah shall be cut off: Ephraim shall not envy Judah, and Judah shall not vex Ephraim.
14But they shall fly upon the shoulders of the Philistines toward the west; they shall spoil them of the east together: they shall lay their hand upon Edom and Moab; and the children of Ammon shall obey them.

and I believe as well that the call to be peacemakers alongside the call to love enemies and turn the other cheek means Christians should not engage in wars.

The Word says that are not to abide in sins- ie live in them. It is one thing for Christians to struggle and make mistakes, it is another to accept a sin and say "well what does it matter, I'll continue doing it".

Nice way of trying to say the opposite of what the Bible says. 1 John 3 clearly says that if we abide in Christ, we cannot sin.

John makes it very clear we do sin, although we need to run from it and confess to God when we do. He is not saying to go sin all you want. He also is not saying that Christians are sinless.

1 John 1:8-10
8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in

That is prior to salvation. If we are all sinful, why would John go on to later completely contradict himself in chapter three?

Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness. 5 But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin. 6 No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him. 7 Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. The one who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. 8 The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work. 9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.

Pretty cut and dry.

 

[MacNeil, D.]

Hand wringing? I wrote a post expressing sadness and outrage at the killing of a Palestinian woman who was protesting the theft of her village's land.

Sounds like you are happy she was killed.

Can't say I gave it much thought. But if I ever do, I'd say I really don't care.

 

[TG123]

Can't say I gave it much thought. But if I ever do, I'd say I really don't care.

You are writing an awful lot about it for someone who doesn't care.

 

[michael32]

When someone dies, it should never be treated casually, nor should it be a thing to celebrate. But it also should not be repeated paraded and misrepresented in the media for propaganda purposes, which this incident has been.

Why the death of a Palestinian protestor by tear gas is a non-story
IsrealToday online, January 5, 2011

"Palestinians trying to turn women allegedly killed by Israeli tear gas into poster child for anti-Israel campaign; but even if true, her death does not prove malicious intent on Israel's part."

"Abu Rahma died last Friday after reportedly inhaling tear gas used by Israeli soldiers to disperse violent rioters protesting against the Israeli security fence separating Samaria (the so-called “West Bank”) from Israel’s densely populated coastal region. The demonstration takes place every week."

"The point is that even if Abu Rahma died from inhaling tear gas, it is a non-story. The firing of tear gas at a violent demonstration does not indicate lethal intent. The Israelis were not trying to kill Abu Rahma. They were using a common and globally accepted form of crowd control.
If that crowd control method resulted in Abu Rahma’s death, it must be chalked up to either a freak accident or a reaction resulting from an undisclosed medical condition."

"To suggest that Abu Rahma’s death in some way demonstrates malicious Israeli intent is the kind of unhinged propaganda that has come to characterize the Palestinian position. And not just from fringe apologists, but from the very Palestinian leaders with whom Israel is supposed to be making peace."

Palestinian leaders have forever used such incidents to manipulate foreign public opinion, and the incidents are almost always falsely reported. Palestinians could have been living peacefully on Arab land, or in an independent Palestinian state, for the last nearly 70 years if they had been willing for Israelis to live peacefully as well, but that hasn't been the case. There will never be peace in that area as long as Palestinian leaders continue to have a policy explicitly calling for the delegitimazation and destruction of Israel.

 

[TG123]

When someone dies, it should never be treated casually, nor should it be a thing to celebrate. But it also should not be repeated paraded and misrepresented in the media for propaganda purposes, which this incident has been.

Why the death of a Palestinian protestor by tear gas is a non-story
IsrealToday online, January 5, 2011

"Palestinians trying to turn women allegedly killed by Israeli tear gas into poster child for anti-Israel campaign; but even if true, her death does not prove malicious intent on Israel's part."

"Abu Rahma died last Friday after reportedly inhaling tear gas used by Israeli soldiers to disperse violent rioters protesting against the Israeli security fence separating Samaria (the so-called “West Bank”) from Israel’s densely populated coastal region. The demonstration takes place every week."

"The point is that even if Abu Rahma died from inhaling tear gas, it is a non-story. The firing of tear gas at a violent demonstration does not indicate lethal intent. The Israelis were not trying to kill Abu Rahma. They were using a common and globally accepted form of crowd control.
If that crowd control method resulted in Abu Rahma’s death, it must be chalked up to either a freak accident or a reaction resulting from an undisclosed medical condition."

"To suggest that Abu Rahma’s death in some way demonstrates malicious Israeli intent is the kind of unhinged propaganda that has come to characterize the Palestinian position. And not just from fringe apologists, but from the very Palestinian leaders with whom Israel is supposed to be making peace."

Palestinian leaders have forever used such incidents to manipulate foreign public opinion, and the incidents are almost always falsely reported. Palestinians could have been living peacefully on Arab land, or in an independent Palestinian state, for the last nearly 70 years if they had been willing for Israelis to live peacefully as well, but that hasn't been the case. There will never be peace in that area as long as Palestinian leaders continue to have a policy explicitly calling for the delegitimazation and destruction of Israel.

It was a violent protest, according to the IDF. It is true that often Palestinians in Biliin do throw rocks. That often happens after the teargas cannisters have been fired by the soldiers, sometimes the rocks are thrown beforehand. Believe me, it goes both ways. The IDF saying that the protest was violent doesn't necessarily mean that it was, or that the Palestinians started the violence.

I have never been to Biliin, but this summer I was in Hebron with CPT and later ISM. There were weekly demonstrations there against the mistreatment of Palestinians by the Israeli settlers and soldiers. I was there at 4 demonstrations. In not one demo did anyone from our side (composed of Palestinians, internationals, and Israelis) throw any rocks at the army or physically attack them or even threaten to. During 3 of 4 demos, the soldiers would rush at people, push them, tackle them, jump on them, arrest them. I have seen people grabbed by the neck and hair are dragged away, people who were not being violent or even resisting.

One of my friends who was arrested while was manhandled very roughly, and though he did not use any resistance, he was charged with "assaulting a soldier". The case went before an Israeli court and was tossed out.

Had the wall not been built on the villager's lands, this protest would not be going on. The wall is meant to keep Israel safe from suicide bombers. If that is the case it should be built in Israel, not annexing parts of the West Bank.

This terrible killing definitely is a story and it should be, no less than the killings or attacks on Israelis.

 

[michael32]

It was a violent protest, according to the IDF. It is true that often Palestinians in Biliin do throw rocks. That often happens after the teargas cannisters have been fired by the soldiers, sometimes the rocks are thrown beforehand. Believe me, it goes both ways. The IDF saying that the protest was violent doesn't necessarily mean that it was, or that the Palestinians started the violence.

I have never been to Biliin, but this summer I was in Hebron with CPT and later ISM. There were weekly demonstrations there against the mistreatment of Palestinians by the Israeli settlers and soldiers. I was there at 4 demonstrations. In not one demo did anyone from our side (composed of Palestinians, internationals, and Israelis) throw any rocks at the army or physically attack them or even threaten to. During 3 of 4 demos, the soldiers would rush at people, push them, tackle them, jump on them, arrest them. I have seen people grabbed by the neck and hair are dragged away, people who were not being violent or even resisting.

One of my friends who was arrested while was manhandled very roughly, and though he did not use any resistance, he was charged with "assaulting a soldier". The case went before an Israeli court and was tossed out.

Had the wall not been built on the villager's lands, this protest would not be going on. The wall is meant to keep Israel safe from suicide bombers. If that is the case it should be built in Israel, not annexing parts of the West Bank.

This terrible killing definitely is a story and it should be, no less than the killings or attacks on Israelis.

I appreciate your concern and your compassion. I too have been in Israel and Palestine. My take from all I've seen is that Israel will negotiate in good faith, and will withdraw from occupied territitory when appropriate, but the Palestinian authorities and their Arab and Iranian sponsors want the conflict unresolved. I feel sorrow for the suffering of the many fine Palestinians who would be willing to live in peace, but they are not the decision makers right now.

 

[ExtremeDelicious]

My take from all I've seen is that Israel will negotiate in good faith, and will withdraw from occupied territitory when appropriate, but the Palestinian authorities and their Arab and Iranian sponsors want the conflict unresolved.

Unfortunately your take is contrary to the historical record.

 

[MacNeil, D.]

You are writing an awful lot about it for someone who doesn't care.

This is just a hobby.

 

[MacNeil, D.]

...

This terrible killing definitely is a story and it should be, no less than the killings or attacks on Israelis.

The story is dead.

 

[michael32]

Unfortunately your take is contrary to the historical record.

Care to provide any evidence?

 

[TG123]

This is just a hobby.

Writing about dead Palestinians?

 

[TG123]

The story is dead.

People on this thread are obviously still talking about it, including you. So you are wrong about that.