Wow! I have never seen such a will to help, to explain in just an online community. I thank you all for your responses and will answer to each and every one of you
.
There's a reason we all like this particular online community
Stick around, I think you'll fit in well.
Generally in Bulgaria orthodox is the official religion and all of us are orthodox, but only on paper. However, that is not like that with me.
Change must begin somewhere - with someone. All the work Christ does in us is missional - He works in us that through us His glory and love can be manifest. Your change will change others, even in ways you never see.
I'll skip ahead a bit so that others may reply to the words you wrote to them.
I want to tell you what happened today. Some of the protestants don't know that I am an orthodox which is normal cos, we are all christian people, right? And we should accept each other and love
.
Many of the most devout and pious people I know are protestant Christians. It is good to celebrate what we have in common.
One Protestant idea, though, that I worry about you picking up without realizing it is called the "invisible church." It is a form of "ecumenism" that teaches two ideas: 1) That anyone who has basic faith in Christ is part of the Church and, therefore, 2) That the Church is visibly divided into several flawed denominations (Roman Catholic, Lutheran, Anglican, Orthodox, Pentecostal, etc.).
It is an attempt to explain the divisions in the churches without really knowing the history of those divisions, and, unfortunately, represents a departure from Orthodox teaching and from the teaching of the New Testament Church (which asks, quite bluntly, "Is Christ divided?" with the implied answer being "no"). We believe in one Incarnate Lord and, therefore, one
incarnate church. So while we HAVE to celebrate the truth and piety we find in ANYONE, we also have to recognize our real differences and, therefore, our real and tragic separation. If we wash over it, we minimize the importance of Truth (and Christ IS the Truth - to minimize Truth is to minimize Christ).
So we must, with all apology, but with no wavering fear of rejection, recognize that the heterodox churches have left the communion of the Church. That doesn't mean that they are outside of God. The Church does not hold a monopoly on God (how could it?), but if WE know that the Orthodox Church has the truth, we must be uncompromising on that point. We cannot judge others, but we know full well if we reject the Truth that we are rejecting Christ.
It's a tricky subject. One that many of us here wrestle with because so many of us are like you - we have friends (and, for a lot of us, family members) who are non-Orthodox. I do not say any of the above as some exercise in intellect; my in-laws and my parents are evangelical protestant. My sister and her husband are roman catholic. Every family get-together and holiday this is a living reality. How do we maintain the Truth with the courage of the martyrs AND love our neighbor (even more, our family!)? How do we uphold Truth without judgmentalism? It can be done, but we must be careful not to stray too far towards one side or the other. If we are too zealous and confrontational in arguing for Orthodoxy, we may push away those we are called to love. If we allow sentimental feelings to wash over our real differences, we may unintentionally stray from the truth and from Christ.
Sorry - that was a bit of a rant.
When I told them that I was an orthodox they began with. "What? So you pray to icons, that is a sin. You pray to saints, this is not right, you must pray only and directly to God".
That is a normal Protestant gripe with Orthodoxy. We don't pray TO icons, but in FRONT of icons. So do they. They pray with crosses up - crosses are like icons. They pray with the scriptures, which are a verbal icon of Christ. We know that in the Old Testament (Exodus) the Jews were COMMANDED by God to put up statues of the Cherubim in the Tabernacle and Temple - those are icons. Also in the Old Testament, the Jews were COMMANDED to pray towards the serpent on the rod that Moses raised up, and they received healing from God for doing so. That serpent is an icon of Christ - Christ is raised up on the cross like that serpent on that rod, and when we pray to Christ we are healed of our sins. So again, you have an icon in the Scriptures.
What is more - it is vital to know what icons represent. Icons proclaim two things VERY loudly:
1) We have an INCARNATE God. We are not Jews and Muslims (who refuse to pray with icons or images of any kind). Their God has only sent prophets. We are not followers of a mere prophet, but of the Son of God Himself Incarnate in the flesh. Jesus Christ is God, but Jesus Christ (the same person) is also a FULL human person - a man. And I can paint a picture of a man. IF Christ is a man, I can depict Him. Yet we know that same Christ (the same man) to be God. Icons proclaim the incarnation - they say that HERE we have the God-man. No other religion has that.
2) We have the Holy Spirit. Not all icons are of Christ. Many are of Mary or the saints. There are a host of reasons for this, but one of the biggest is that we know we are surrounded by the "cloud of witnesses" (Hebrews says that); the icons depict this visually. They are, therefore, "windows into heaven" showing us the reality of the Kingdom of God in which there is no death. Because the saints live with Christ, when we pray we are WITH them; the icons are a tool to represent that. WHY are the saints alive in Christ? Because of the Holy Spirit. The salvation wrought by God through Christ in the Holy Spirit is proclaimed loudly in EVERY icon of a saint. The Psalms say that God is glorified in His saints - icons make that evident. In the icon, we see the glory of God because in the icon, we see the saint whom God has saved. It isn't about the particular saint per-say (though God revels in the particular like that), but rather about glorifying God by celebrating all that He has done.
If we know that God has saved so many, done so many miracles, redeemed so much - how can we not glorify that in EVERY way possible? Through hymns and music, yes. Through our very lives if we can repent by the grace of God. But ALSO through images. Is there something dirty about paint and wood that it cannot be so used to glorify the marvelous works of God? How can we deny God that honor?
So we have icons in our churches. And we pray in our churches, so we pray in the presence of icons. Not to them - in the presence of them.
Saints? Prayers to saints are no different from you asking me to pray for you, or me asking you to pray for me. We do indeed pray "to" saints, but it is different from praying to God. Prayer is just a form of speech. Just like when I talk to you it means one thing, but if I were to talk to God it would mean something totally different, so it is with saints. They are just people. People miraculously redeemed through God's saving power, but still just people. God is God. Prayer to God is an act of worship; prayer to a saint is just talking.
So why do we do it? Well, first, because we follow the example of the generations of saints before us who have done it. Second, because we have seen the miracles God does THROUGH His saints by their prayers (so we know these prayers are effective). Third, because we know that Christ has conquered death so that there is no separation in Christ. The saints live in Him - God is not the God of the dead, but of the living. There is no death in Christ, and so we are SURROUNDED by the great cloud of witnesses. If THEY are united to Christ, then as much as we are united to Christ we are united to them. This is called the "communion of the saints" and it means that, through the miracle of Christ's death and resurrection, we can ask the saints for their prayers the same way we ask one another for our prayers. So prayer to the saints proclaims loudly Christ's victory over death. FOURTH: for love. We are not saved alone; as you have readily discovered, we must be saved into a community - into love. The saints are PART of that community. We are not just saved into a community in the here-and-now, but a community that transcends time because its GOD transcends time. We are part of that community of the Apostles, the Martyrs, the Bishops, the Councils, etc. etc. - all of it.
Now, some prayers to saints do take on the character of praise. That is, we honor the saints. We do not worship them, though. Like I said above, honoring the saints is REALLY about honoring
God's incredible work in saving those saints. Each and every REAL Christian - every real saint - is God's unique work of art. So we honor the art and, thereby, bring glory to the Artist Himself.
And I said, "Well I even pray to orcs and trolls and other stuff".I tried to explain them that the icon is just a sign of your love to God or Jesus, or a portrait of a man who also loved God.
I don't quite understand the prayers to orcs and trolls - those are pagan things. We don't pray to demons.
But I agree with what you said about icons as signs of love to God, or portraits of saints who truly loved God.
And another thing. I also explained that we don't pray to saints. We say prayers tat saints have once said. I have never ever thought of praying anything else than God. But what happen then? When I went home I found an orthodox praying book, in Bulgarian and there were prayers directly to saints
. I myself don't like the idea of me or anyone else to pray to something else than God himself. Please explain me those things about praying to saints. Is it right to pray to saints and why?
Hopefully the above helps. If it is too technical / not practical enough, that's a weakness of mine - let me know and I'll have another go at it.
Oh God, You who gave me life and everything around me, I thank you for my health and for all the other things I have. If it wasn't for you I wouldn't have gone this far. You who have always protected me. Give me strenght, to find the right path in those areas in my life, where I haven't. God, give all the people chance to see, that without you and without the love you have given to them and which they have almost forgotten, they are lost. Give them strenght to let go of any hate and anger and begin to see things simple and pure. Give them health, because it is the biggest gift of them all.
Amen
It is a good prayer. Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on us, for we are sinners.
You know what you might want to try - for "formal" prayers, try praying the Lord's Prayer each morning and evening. It is Scriptural, and Christ even tells us to pray that way when we pray. Much of what you say in your prayer above is, to me, akin to the Lord's Prayer. The Psalms are also an excellent source of prayers. Psalm 50 (sometimes 51) "Have mercy on me, O God, according to your great mercy" is superb. Just a couple ideas.
In Christ,
Macarius