I Obey, Therefore I Am Loved and Accepted.

[ToBeLoved]

My analogy is in line of how one should read the Bible. Meaning, you should not read the Bible with a certain bias or only looking at those parts that you prefer. Also, explaining the flip side of not obeying is not in contradiction to the thread topic. It is explaining WHY must one obey so as to be accepted. There are dire consequences involved if one does not obey God. Both for the believer and the unbeliever.


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Your analogy is not in line with how we should read the Bible.

Your analogy talks about a car. A car deminishes in reliability as it is used. God does not change, nor does He deminish as time goes by.

I will not even take that analogy seriously and to make such a blatent analogy of something that becomes less reliable in time is a gross misrepresentation of Christ. This analogy was flawed from the start.

 

[ToBeLoved]

You cannot have an orchestra without all the instruments playing in harmony together.
You said before grace is separate from the gospel.
If so, then that means that they cannot work in harmony together (Whereby the fit together - like you said).
You are contradicting yourself and you do not even know it.


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I've heard a lot of orchestra's that do not play in harmony.

Just because an orchestra plays together does not indicate harmony.

Your analogy again makes no sense Biblically.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Your analogy is not in line with how we should read the Bible.

Your analogy talks about a car. A car deminishes in reliability as it is used. God does not change, nor does He deminish as time goes by.

I will not even take that analogy seriously and to make such a blatent analogy of something that becomes less reliable in time is a gross misrepresentation of Christ. This analogy was flawed from the start.

Jesus used an analogy about dogs to refer to a spiritual truth. God and Christ are superior to dogs. Just as a car reflects the same truth. The analogy does not ring well with you because it expresses a truth that you do not like. Meaning, you are prefering to only look at one side of the Bible here (i.e. the good parts and not the bad parts).


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[Bible Highlighter]

I've heard a lot of orchestra's that do not play in harmony.

Just because an orchestra plays together does not indicate harmony.

Your analogy again makes no sense Biblically.

But you cannot have the gospel without grace. You also cannot have the gospel without salvation, either. You are trying to separate them from each other because you do not like what Titus 2:11-12 says.


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[ToBeLoved]

Jesus used an analogy about dogs to refer to a spiritual truth. God and Christ are superior to dogs. Just as a car reflects the same truth. The analogy does not ring well with you because it expresses a truth that you do not like. Meaning, you are prefering to only look at one side of the Bible here (i.e. the good parts and not the bad parts).


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You think what you like. Cars have only existed for 100 years. The Word of God has exisited much longer.

You seem to not find any fault in your inaccurate analogy, but you shouldn't preach it because it is faulty.

 

[Steeno7]

Grace is a gift. Salvation is for those who cooperate with God's grace until the end.

Yep. That's salvation by works.

 

[Thursday]

Yep. That's salvation by works.

Salvation by grace working through love.

Gal 5:6
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but only faith working through love.

1 Corinthians 7:19
Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing. Keeping God's commands is what counts.

 

[ToBeLoved]

But you cannot have the gospel without grace. You also cannot have the gospel without salvation, either. You are trying to separate them from each other because you do not like what Titus 2:11-12 says.


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I don't separate them in Titus.

What you do not understand is that each of these principles have their own meaning and can stand on their own, so then when we combine them they have the meaning in context of each word on it's own to add to that truth.

What you would like to do is give meaning to each by using the context of them together to then define them individually. However, it does not work that way. Scripture interprets scripture.

A false gospel is presented as contingencies on something else. You cannot separate them into their own context because it does not suit your theology.

That is why you lump them all together. To suit your theology.

I see it clearly for what it is.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Salvation by grace working through love.

Gal 5:6
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but only faith working through love.

1 Corinthians 7:19
Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing. Keeping God's commands is what counts.

And the reason anyone keeps God's commands is by the Holy Spirit. So, what counts is not actually by you or anyone else? Right

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I don't separate them in Titus.

What you do not understand is that each of these principles have their own meaning and can stand on their own, so then when we combine them they have the meaning in context of each word on it's own to add to that truth.

What you would like to do is give meaning to each by using the context of them together to then define them individually. However, it does not work that way. Scripture interprets scripture.

A false gospel is presented as contingencies on something else. You cannot separate them into their own context because it does not suit your theology.

That is why you lump them all together. To suit your theology.

I see it clearly for what it is.

Your not making any sense. Do you believe Titus 2:11-12 says that the grace of God teaches us to deny ungodliness and worldly lusts? Would this not also be a part of the gospel because the gospel is tied to grace?


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[Bible Highlighter]

And the reason anyone keeps God's commands is by the Holy Spirit. So, what counts is not actually by you or anyone else? Right

1 John 2:4 says,

"He that says, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him"


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[Steeno7]

That's the point James is making. He is saying that to have a belief alone type of a faith is no faith at all because the demons also believe (i.e. they have a belief only type faith) and tremble..

Ummmmm, no, that's not what James is saying. Read the passage in whole. Belief in Jesus Christ is more than enough. Demons do not believe in Christ or have faith in Christ.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You think what you like. Cars have only existed for 100 years. The Word of God has exisited much longer.

You seem to not find any fault in your inaccurate analogy, but you shouldn't preach it because it is faulty.

So you think God does not exist today and that He would not be capable of making an analogy with things that we are familar with today?
Do you not know that Jesus used things that people were familar with during that time like wine skins?

Wine skins are an invention of man, too.


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[Steeno7]

That's like looking at one side of a car (that is in good condition) and ignoring the other side of it (that is smashed up from an accident). You cannot look at the Bible and look at only those verses that suggest "happy times" for you. The Bible has to be read as a whole looking at both the good and the bad.

When talking about the gospel: Vengeance is what takes place when one does not obey the gospel.
It would be helpful to know what obeying not the gospel means so as to assure that one is not falling into error concerning it.

You really need to stop applying to forgiven saints what is written about the the lost.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Ummmmm, no, that's not what James is saying. Read the passage in whole. Belief in Jesus Christ is more than enough. Demons do not believe in Christ or have faith in Christ.

Verse numbers please.

Again, James is clearly saying that that a dead faith is like that of the belief of demons.


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[Steeno7]

And that's the point James is making.
He is saying to have a belief alone is like not having any kind of faith at all.
It would be like that of the belief of demons.

Which is followed by actions (See Hebrews 11).

Exactly. That is the point James is making. He is saying those who have this kind of demon type belief do not have a true faith.
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No, James is not saying that demons believe in Jesus Christ.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You really need to stop applying to forgiven saints what is written about the the lost.

Forgiven saints are those who obey God.
For Jesus says if you do not forgive, you will not be forgiven (Matthew 6:15).


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[Bible Highlighter]

No, James is not saying that demons believe in Jesus Christ.

That's the point. The demons do not believe in Jesus Christ for their salvation. James likens this type of belief with that of a dead faith or to those who have a belief only.

James is making a comparison or an anology.
He is saying those who have a "Belief only in Jesus." are like those who simply believe in the existence of God like the demons.
In other words, the analogy does not need to be exactly precise or perfect in every way in order to make such an analogy.
The point of the comparison was to illustrate that a mere belief alone with no works is a dead faith.



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[Steeno7]

My analogy is in line of how one should read the Bible. Meaning, you should not read the Bible with a certain bias or only looking at those parts that you prefer. Also, explaining the flip side of not obeying is not in contradiction to the thread topic. It is explaining WHY must one obey so as to be accepted. There are dire consequences involved if one does not obey God. Both for the believer and the unbeliever.

Who are you accusing of not obeying God?

 

[Steeno7]

You cannot have an orchestra without all the instruments playing in harmony together.
You said before grace is separate from the gospel.
If so, then that means that they cannot work in harmony together (Whereby they fit together - like you said).
You are contradicting yourself and you do not even know it.
Either something is entirely separate or they are together.
It cannot be both.
Especially when we are talking about the gospel, grace, and salvation.
They are all tied together and cannot be separated.

This means that the grace of God that teaches us to deny ungodliness and worldly lusts according to Titus 2:11-12 would also have to be included with the gospel, too. Why? Because they all work in harmony with each other and cannot be separated on their own.

That's why it's called the gospel of Gods grace, and not the gospel of your works.