"I lay down my life" in John 10

[DIANAC]

To: Sawdust

That is correct. If you re-read what I wrote and look at Ed's response you will see the errors he made regarding how long I have walked with the Lord and whether I wanted for him to continue speaking. I figured he either wasn't listening to me properly or he was misunderstanding. I preferred to give him the benefit of the doubt and consider he misunderstood.
The reason my language was strong was because at best, Ed was ambiguous with the Word, at worst, he butchered it. The Word is Christ! I will accept whatever one may wish to speak against me but I have little tolerance for treating the Word without due respect and dilligence.

And yes, I signed off in peace for I am not Ed's enemy and what measure of peace the Lord has given me, I would give to him gladly. I do not know Ed, but what I have seen of him in his posts, I think he would be a most reasonable man. I'm sure that if he and I were to discuss this further, we would come to understand one another. But I do not have the time to give him at the moment and therefore it would be unfair of me to make any promises of discourse.

I understand my words hurt him and I would rather it were not so. But being hurt does not necessarily mean apologies are in order. We are all sinners and live in an evil world. Getting hurt in life is par for the course. Only Ed can determine (by grace) whether he is hurting because I spoke against him or whether I spoke against the Christ in him. If he is hurting because of himself? .... then we have come full circle in the meaning of this thread. A life laid down for the Lord does not count oneself to be of merit so as to consider offence against it as something to be brought into account. Consider this.

Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come. Matt.12:32

Christ is Lord, is He not? Yes! Yet while He counted not the Glory which, by rights was His, He refused to take offence to all that was said against Him. This is the attitude to which we also are called.

Again, I leave you with my peace and pray you understand the spirit in which I speak.

peace

Dear Sawdust,

At the first glance I did not want to reply to your post. However, after I prayed I came to understand that as a sister in Christ, I must.


You indicate that you want only a truth “Give me truth or give me nothing.” Righteous indignation was directed towards Ed for the following reasons:

1. “Ed was ambiguous with the Word, at worst, he butchered it. The Word is Christ! I will accept whatever one may wish to speak against me but I have little tolerance for treating the Word without due respect and dilligence.”

2. “the errors he made regarding how long I have walked with the Lord and whether I wanted for him to continue speaking.”

OK. Let us look at number 1.

How do you know that he butchered the Word? As per your own admission
“But I do not know the scriptures well enough to refute or straighten out what I dimly perceive as misconnections.”
In another thread Ed indicated that he teaches a Bible at a advance level. Does it mean that you should not question him? Not at all! But it does not mean that you can demand that he explains it in the way that it makes sense to you. “If you cannot explain the Word of God so that it makes sense”. And if he does not provide a quick satisfactory answer, you show your indignation.



2.You are angry because he misunderstood you regarding if you wanted him be silent or continue contributing to the thread. You say “If you cannot explain the Word of God so that it makes sense, then we both will benefit from your silence. This is not to mean that I do not want you to speak because I have greatly appreciated your input to this thread.”
Well, you can be angry at me as well, because, I also do not understand what you want.

Additionally, you accuse him for treating the Word “without due respect and dilligence.”
As I frequently see from the thread, he searches the Scripture, extensively uses Concordance not satisfied with the “popular” explanations. You surely misrepresented Ed.

You reaction based on misunderstanding, not knowing well the Scripture and not receiving an answer that you were looking for, was not gracious. Additionally, you justified your reaction by taking offense on behalf of Christ?!? Please remember that our Lord was also gentle.
And we must remember that Grace received produces fruit which is: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control.

And no, I do not like the spirit in which you spoke.
I pray that you will consider this.
Be well,
Diana

 

[sawdust]

To: Sawdust

Dear Sawdust,

At the first glance I did not want to reply to your post. However, after I prayed I came to understand that as a sister in Christ, I must.

Must you? I wonder why. What do you hope to prove?



I'm not interested in making this an issue between what Ed said or what I said. We are nothing. The only issue of importance is "Who is Christ and what He says?"

Consider this my last response. From here on, you are in a "solo conversation". (so low (in volume) I can't hear you)

peace

 

[Edial]

Must you? I wonder why. What do you hope to prove?



I'm not interested in making this an issue between what Ed said or what I said. We are nothing. The only issue of importance is "Who is Christ and what He says?"

Consider this my last response. From here on, you are in a "solo conversation". (so low (in volume) I can't hear you)

peace

sawdust, I thought I "heard it all". But apparently I have much to learn.
I will expand on your suggestion to keep silent and will add you to the ignore list.
It truly is unfortunate that this list became populated.

Ed

 

[Knowledge3]

Genez wrote this gem:

I was told.... The Holy Spirit will not say directly what is the truth is. First he must have the Word. But, the Spirit will keep witnessing to that person that what he is hearing is not truth.

John 10.14
I am the Good Sheperd; I know my sheep and my sheep know know me--Just as the Father knows me and I know the Father--and I lay down my life for the sheep.

John 10.11
I am the the Good Shepherd. The Good Sheperd lays down his life for the sheep.



I asked God to bless you GeneZ..Bless you

 

[Edial]

Hi Knowledge3.
Unfortunately I had not a chance to follow your conversation with Gene.
But I started reading now that you mentioned.

Gene apparently wants to say that some people have a "red flag" approach to theology. Basically, it is although they know the Scriptures, and since they have the Holy Spirit in them, He will prompt them when an untruth is told and/or the Scriptures are mis-used.

It has some truth in it.
However, many use that approach on a much wider scale than they would admit to.

Unfortunately, such an approach backfires.

Many do not realize the power of their personal impressions concerning someone. They might not like the way he looks, or speaks, or dresses, or his mannerism might remind him of a crook they once knew, or they might have an incorrect learning concerning a topic, or they do not like the authority that they perceive, and so on.

There once was an incident. A believer, a very sweet girl in a Russian church just heard someone speak concerning repentance. I know the speaker. And because he was still a new believer he had some rough edges in his deliverly, yet he presented the topic truthfully and very well.
Afterwards, that girl sincerely stated to her friend: "I think he truly is a bad man".
Well, he is not. I still know him and he is a very decent man.
She is married now and has a daughter, and it took her some time to realize that he is not a bad man.

People perceive things. And more often than not the perceptions activate our "defense mechanisms". And perceptions are very unreliable, because it is part of us, which in itself became unreliable.
Even our hearts are unreliable !

And the apparent problem is that we get deceived when we interpret the data received via our perception as a prompting of the Holy Spirit.

So, a perception has to have a supporting foundation.

And since no perception is a prompting of the Holy Spirit, we need to start again in many things in life once we realize our mistakes.

Good observation.
Thanks,
Ed

 

[sawdust]

I have been taught that perception is the means through which we come to understanding.

There are three ways in which we perceive.
1. Rationalism
2. Empiricism (sp?) (observation)
3. Faith

When it comes to spiritual matters, number three is the only perception that leads to understanding.

peace