I dont know what to do with my terrible 2

[_Shannon_]

Bedtime is a major struggle no matter what we do to enforce it and we did have a routine and he doesn't follow through with it anymore.

Can't spank/ scream

We tried reverse psychology.

He stays up night after night fighting us, jumping out of bed, playing, etc.
We are up in our household until after 1 a.m most mornings fighting him to sleep. I don't know how to handle this and we haven't spanked in a week at least.

To my mind there are three most likely candidates for what's going on here (or a combination thereof):
1. your son wants y'alls attention, and the bedtime drama keeps giving him that attention.

2. he is afraid--of the dark, of sleep, or of things he's seen on a screen during the day

3. he has sensory issues which make it difficult for him to shut off his brain and fall asleep

Personally, I think a bedtime ritual ought to be short and to the point. Unless you enjoy that time together...then make it as long as you like! I am ready to be done by the end of the day, and so 10-15 minutes is my max. That will be different for each person.

Once you have gone through your ritual--which I think it's very valuable to have a consistent communication touch point during "What was the best part of your day? What was the hardest or worst or saddest part of your day?"...then do NOT interact with him ANY more. If he gets up, put him right back to bed. Say nothing. If he calls for you, tuck him in firmly--but lovingly--and say NOTHING (other than maybe nighttime is for sleeping). If he gets up to ask for water, etc. provide him with a water bottle for next to his bed. Do not worry about nighttime potty training right now as you deal with this-to remove requests for the potty from the equation) If you do NOT engage, he will get the message that these attempts are not going to meet the need he has for your attention. BUT you have to follow through...when you are not up til the wee hours--tell im and show him the results of that. "You did a great job at bed last night. Now that Mommy is rested from a good night's sleep, I can play with you so much better!"

It will take a week or two--but if you can do that, and it's an attention thing--it will subside. I would try that first...and if at the three week mark the same behaviour is there, then I would move onto the second possible cause.

He is a little young for nighttime fear to kick in. That usually happens around 3.5 or so. Dealing with night fears--a nightlight or a water gun to shoot the "monsters" or "bad guys" can be a fun and useful solution. (With my oldest who had baaaad night fears, I gave him a gun with holy water in it....lol! It worked immediately. He felt like a modern day St. Michael) Also being aware of what is on the screens around them during the day. Kids totally absorb what's on the TV or computer even if they don't seem to be paying attention. I would check with your husband about his gaming and what possible images your son might be seeing during the day. Some of them might be quite scary to a little boy.

The last one--sensory issues, is more difficult to overcome. Event the feeling of the sheets and blankets can matter. But I wouldn't even begin to deal with that possibility until the first two are eliminated.

Have you asked your son why he resists bedtime?? He's doing so great telling you about the "why" of so much of his other behaviours--it might be worth a try to ask him, though during the day, not at bedtime.Do you cut off juice and other sugars early enough? Have you thought about removing evening dairy from his diet? (That can be a trigger for some kids).

I would be very hesitant to lock a child in their room, because I think it is a safety hazard (and personally just feels icky to me)--but I understand that NOT keeping them confined in their room can also be a safety hazard, and that there are times when there honestly might be no other recourse.

Anygma has a great idea about remembering countdowns. And about tweaking nap schedules. I would add, also, that it might just be beneficial to go in the opposite direction- to allow a longer or later nap and let bedtime be later. Since you are gone during the day often--more time awake at night might be good for him. But only if he is rested and it's positive time together. And definitely a LOT of that has to do with what you can deal with. You have an enormous load on your plate, and you might not be able to parent until 10 at night. (Which I totally understand, and I don't have a job or school). Our oldest son stays up, but that's our time together--I can NOT parent effective after about 9 o;clock. My reserves are just spent! I wish I could, because often my husband doesn't land for the day until like 8:00pm...and I think my kids would all like to see more of him. But he is exhausted by then as well, and so for the sake of doing no harm through negative interaction because we're both wiped out..the younger kids all have to be in their rooms by 9:00. The older ones can read or draw for a little, but our interaction with them has to be done.

So again--this comes down to you staying in control of your emotions, setting boundaries, and meaning what you say. Id bedtime is "it" for the night--then it really has to be it. Do not engage him any more after you walk out of the room. Keep everything matter of fact and talk as little as possible. "Nigttime is for sleeping". Put him back in bed. Walk out. And again, as with everything--there will be a learning curve. But my guess is that if you do this--two weeks from now you'll come back to report how much easier bedtime is.

Brikkz--you are doing so good! Don't get discouraged by your setbacks! Just since you've started this thread--look how FAR you and your son have come!! Just think what things will be like 6 months from now!

 

[benedictaoo]

I'm not saying your son as ADHD, he is way too young to even try to think that but kids who do have it- it's classic that have trouble going to sleep because of the brain being all over the place.

My autistic son, sleep disturbances are very typical.

Its purely neurological and not a behavioral or emotional problem. The messages that the brain sends is different and the central nervous system gets wrong information and processes it differently.

My kids never sleep. 12 am is a normal bed time for us, they get up at 8 am. That was fine when I was younger but now I'm old, I can't stay up like I use to.

 

[CruciFixed]

To my mind there are three most likely candidates for what's going on here (or a combination thereof):
1. your son wants y'alls attention, and the bedtime drama keeps giving him that attention.

2. he is afraid--of the dark, of sleep, or of things he's seen on a screen during the day
We keep a lamp on at night. He calls it his lamp. He's had a night time fraid of the dark deal since he was about 20 months.

3. he has sensory issues which make it difficult for him to shut off his brain and fall asleep
He occasionally stays up until 8 a.m and sleeps for 2 hours then is up again and Mom is barely alive by then.

Personally, I think a bedtime ritual ought to be short and to the point. Unless you enjoy that time together...then make it as long as you like! I am ready to be done by the end of the day, and so 10-15 minutes is my max. That will be different for each person.
We used to get ready for bed starting at 9 p.m and it usually lasted until 10 and he would sleep after he was 18 months bed time became a major struggle out of the blue. In fact his whole day used to be a routine. 12 was lunch 1 was nap 3 was time to get up and play, etc then 5 p.m. was dinner and at 9 we started getting ready for bed. Now he is impossible to get down and sometimes its 8 a.m. When he needed codeine for pain in his mouth (prescribed) he would sleep all night after 9 p.m.

After we no longer needed codeine it was back to the old drawing board. We were unsure of how to handle the sleepless nights.

But the codeine was an induced sleep not something we could rely on.

Once you have gone through your ritual--which I think it's very valuable to have a consistent communication touch point during "What was the best part of your day? What was the hardest or worst or saddest part of your day?"...then do NOT interact with him ANY more. If he gets up, put him right back to bed. Say nothing. If he calls for you, tuck him in firmly--but lovingly--and say NOTHING (other than maybe nighttime is for sleeping). If he gets up to ask for water, etc. provide him with a water bottle for next to his bed. Do not worry about nighttime potty training right now as you deal with this-to remove requests for the potty from the equation) If you do NOT engage, he will get the message that these attempts are not going to meet the need he has for your attention. BUT you have to follow through...when you are not up til the wee hours--tell im and show him the results of that. "You did a great job at bed last night. Now that Mommy is rested from a good night's sleep, I can play with you so much better!"

Yeah we don't do nighttime potty training because amazingly after an all day struggle with the potty he wants to be on it at night. Stall tactics? We do actually leave a bottle of water on a dinner tray by his bed and a bag of animal crackers because he wakes up hungry for some reason at night even when we fill him up.

I will try to do the thing where I ignore him though that might help!

It will take a week or two--but if you can do that, and it's an attention thing--it will subside. I would try that first...and if at the three week mark the same behaviour is there, then I would move onto the second possible cause.

He is a little young for nighttime fear to kick in. That usually happens around 3.5 or so. Dealing with night fears--a nightlight or a water gun to shoot the "monsters" or "bad guys" can be a fun and useful solution. (With my oldest who had baaaad night fears, I gave him a gun with holy water in it....lol! It worked immediately. He felt like a modern day St. Michael) Also being aware of what is on the screens around them during the day. Kids totally absorb what's on the TV or computer even if they don't seem to be paying attention. I would check with your husband about his gaming and what possible images your son might be seeing during the day. Some of them might be quite scary to a little boy.

Then a few months ago he started an obsession about monsters. I was concerned about the monsters issues because he never watches scary movies and we don't allow him to watch a lot of TV. He gets to watch Thomas and Friends and Barney. He's obsessed on a weird level with monsters. What do monsters do? Where do they live? Do monsters have girlfriends? Do monsters get presents from Santa? Do monsters have birthdays? Where does this come from? I tell him and tell him there's no such thing as monsters and they aren't real and he still obsesses about it. He told us he had a bad dream. He wakes up like 5 times during the night crying even if he goes to bed normally.

Essentially we're co-sleeping because we live in a studio sized room in my fil's house that's a long long story i dont want to get into but we're moving out in the spring.

The last one--sensory issues, is more difficult to overcome. Event the feeling of the sheets and blankets can matter.
He hates covers and sheets but we thought it is because he is hot. He whines a lot at bed time.
But I wouldn't even begin to deal with that possibility until the first two are eliminated.

Have you asked your son why he resists bedtime?? He's doing so great telling you about the "why" of so much of his other behaviours--it might be worth a try to ask him, though during the day, not at bedtime.Do you cut off juice and other sugars early enough? Have you thought about removing evening dairy from his diet? (That can be a trigger for some kids).
I will try that.

I would be very hesitant to lock a child in their room, because I think it is a safety hazard (and personally just feels icky to me)--but I understand that NOT keeping them confined in their room can also be a safety hazard, and that there are times when there honestly might be no other recourse.
He's locked in our room at night because of my father in law. He can't go downstairs. We live in a studio sized attic apartment in my father in law's house. The reason we're here is a long story I don't want to get into.

Anygma has a great idea about remembering countdowns. And about tweaking nap schedules. I would add, also, that it might just be beneficial to go in the opposite direction- to allow a longer or later nap and let bedtime be later. Since you are gone during the day often--more time awake at night might be good for him. But only if he is rested and it's positive time together. And definitely a LOT of that has to do with what you can deal with. You have an enormous load on your plate, and you might not be able to parent until 10 at night. (Which I totally understand, and I don't have a job or school). Our oldest son stays up, but that's our time together--I can NOT parent effective after about 9 o;clock. My reserves are just spent! I wish I could, because often my husband doesn't land for the day until like 8:00pm...and I think my kids would all like to see more of him. But he is exhausted by then as well, and so for the sake of doing no harm through negative interaction because we're both wiped out..the younger kids all have to be in their rooms by 9:00. The older ones can read or draw for a little, but our interaction with them has to be done.

So again--this comes down to you staying in control of your emotions, setting boundaries, and meaning what you say. Id bedtime is "it" for the night--then it really has to be it. Do not engage him any more after you walk out of the room. Keep everything matter of fact and talk as little as possible. "Nigttime is for sleeping". Put him back in bed. Walk out. And again, as with everything--there will be a learning curve. But my guess is that if you do this--two weeks from now you'll come back to report how much easier bedtime is.

Brikkz--you are doing so good! Don't get discouraged by your setbacks! Just since you've started this thread--look how FAR you and your son have come!! Just think what things will be like 6 months from now!

We are doing a little better its hard to see improvement sometimes. He is still having some trouble with this new stuff too he asked for a spanking last night when he couldn't sleep. :o

I'm not saying your son as ADHD, he is way too young to even try to think that but kids who do have it- it's classic that have trouble going to sleep because of the brain being all over the place.

My autistic son, sleep disturbances are very typical.

Its purely neurological and not a behavioral or emotional problem. The messages that the brain sends is different and the central nervous system gets wrong information and processes it differently.

My kids never sleep. 12 am is a normal bed time for us, they get up at 8 am. That was fine when I was younger but now I'm old, I can't stay up like I use to.

Awww that's tough My stepson is autistic the doctor put him on melatonin.

 

[_Shannon_]

My oldest takes melatonin. It helps him a lot. They have chewable melatonin at Trader JOes.

Can you just take the stress out of it and just all go to bed together, at the same time? Increase his nap time or push it later in the day and then just go to bed together? I dunno--we sometimes get into an idea of what "ought" to be, rather than what is...even when what "ought to be" is really not gonna work for us.

 

[CruciFixed]

I am about to come out and say I'm a bad mom I never taught my son about God except to say "God created you and me"

But this is neat....he picked up my crucifix today and I said "What do you have?" and my husband said "Yeah what is that?" He said "This has God on it"
I said "What?" He said "It just has God on it see?" and pointed to Christ.

He got ahold of my Rosary as well and I said "Where's my rosary?" He said "I just love the Rosary" I said "Where did you put it?" He said "Daddy took your God mom" lol and my husband did take it from him.

I just think those things are neat that he says even though I never told him that I tell him "You know who that is?" He says "Thats Jesus..." I said "And who is Jesus?" He says "Jesus is God." LOL

I don't remember ever actually teaching him that and I didn't think to yet because the trinity is complicated.

 

[_Shannon_]

That's awesome! Isn't that awesome how those things come just at the time whe we're feeling really beaten down! That is so cool! Talk about grace!

Great book called 3 in 1 about the Trinity for little kids. http://www.amazon.com/3-1-Picture-J...680X/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1294446578&sr=8-7

 

[Anygma]

sound like you're doing great progress Brikkz

i think children do get revelation from the Holy Spirit. when my son was a baby and young tot, i would sometime bring him to the big image of the Sacred Heart when he would cry. i believe i also had pointed out Jesus on the cross but never showed him images of baby Jesus. one day i pointed to infant Jesus in Mary's arm and asked who it was and he replied without flinching, that it was Jesus. how did he connected the grown man with the baby, i don't know. your son is barely 3 years old Brikkz, it is still not too late to start talking to him more about God. those truth he professed without your teaching is a good invitation to do so

if he can read or pretend to read, you can print him a little prayer book and introduce him to a few basic prayers. i found it helped me learn new ones along with them. chances are, he'll learn the prayers faster then you, kids are amazing at learning prayers.

 

[CruciFixed]

I didn't think little ones could learn prayers haha how dumb of me! They can learn other languages in a flash, why not prayers? I never told him Jesus is God. I told him God created us and then his soon to be Godfather gave him a baby's first Bible and it talks about Jesus but I never said
"Jesus is God" and dont know how he put the friendly cartoon from the baby bible to be the same guy nailed to the cross
And then to say that the same guy on the cross that's in his book is ALSO God!

I was like "How come kids get it and we don't?" I sometimes still don't get the trinity deal. I just accept it even when it doesn't make sense to me. He just knows it. Talk about the innocence of a child.

Tonight he was in the bathroom and said "I gotta say 'Father and The Son and Spirit" I said "Why" He said "If you let me hold the rosary"
He really loves my rosaries and crucifixes. I was thinking of documenting our day together like via a recording or something when troubles arise to see if I can get an outside perspective.

We're back to bed time and its going to be a struggle again.

 

[CruciFixed]

Oh and if it weren't for school work that I do online I wouldn't mind going to sleep at the same time as him. The timer thing worked for the teeth brushing ordeal and getting him a toothpaste with a familiar character on it encouraged him to do it as well. We did really well.

Something I left out he jumps in his bed when its bed time instead of lying down or will run around his bed and throws himself around instead of lying down.

I forgot that I already mentioned my kids real names in other threads so I don't need to abbreviate.

 

[Anygma]

hmmm, do you think he heard you say your rosary and the sign of the cross? must be so cute to hear him talk about God like that do you think he would like to go to bed with his own little rosary, maybe a decade one... they are much shorter and less risk of him getting tangled in it. he might like praying with you and it could be a way you can get him to lay down. if he's eager to pray with you, you could tell him you'll pray with him once he's laying down in bed under his blankets. prayers can be relaxing and soothing. you might even be able to say a decade with him.

hope bedtime gets easier. take the time to celebrate each little victories and let him know how you're please with how well he does too.

 

[CruciFixed]

He must have seen me do the sign of the cross the other night, actually. My mom wants to get him his first Rosary for his baptism. She saw one that says "My first Rosary"

I have a pocket rosary he can use but he likes mommy's big one. I have to rosaries: a pocket rosary and a full length. The pocket one is wooden the full length one is plasticky with a metal crucifix thats kinda sharp so i'd rather him use my pocket one even if it takes some convincing.

Thanks for the idea, Anygma.

 

[_Shannon_]

hmmm, do you think he heard you say your rosary and the sign of the cross? must be so cute to hear him talk about God like that do you think he would like to go to bed with his own little rosary, maybe a decade one... they are much shorter and less risk of him getting tangled in it. he might like praying with you and it could be a way you can get him to lay down. if he's eager to pray with you, you could tell him you'll pray with him once he's laying down in bed under his blankets. prayers can be relaxing and soothing. you might even be able to say a decade with him.

hope bedtime gets easier. take the time to celebrate each little victories and let him know how you're please with how well he does too.

GReat idea!!!!--just be forewarned that roasaries also make good weapons Kids can really swing those puppies around and whip the heck out of something or someone.

You can get really cheap plastic rosaries for kids. Some even have sparkly beads and are very pretty.

 

[CruciFixed]

He's been okay lately. At bed time its still tough but not half as bad as before.

 

[CruciFixed]

I posted that before this happened:
So he went to sleep around 11 p.m which is better than his norm. We were surprised but happy. He went to sleep at 11:30 night before last and 1 a.m or later three nights ago.

However, he woke up crying once and we comforted him and he went back to sleep. Not a half hour later he was up crying again. Hubby decided to let A lay with him. So I said "Good idea" so they laid together and we both thought "This will work for tonight" So hubby asks A "Why do you keep waking up?" and A says "Because my feet hurt and my legs hurt"
SO I tried to rub them (its going on 2 a.m at this point)
And he said not to touch them so I gave him an age appropriate dose of children's Acetaminophen, thinking whatever pain it was could be relieved with that. So I doled it out he took it well and I went to lie down on the couch since my son had my spot in bed but at that point whatever it took to get him back to dream land.

I fell asleep with ease after that this is my husband's account:
A wouldn't sleep. Hubby tried to turn on a baseball game, however A kept cutting up. A started to cry at some point in the late part of the morning so loud that he woke up J. J woke up crying so hubby decided to give him a bottle while mommy slept. He took the whole bottle and went back to sleep. A was still resisting sleep. He didn't go to sleep fully until close to 7 a.m.

Now hubby is asleep and Mommy is awake watching J play a little bit.

Please if you will include my husband in your prayers today. It will be a struggle for him to be okay while I work.

 

[Anygma]

He's been okay lately. At bed time its still tough but not half as bad as before.

that's a great improvement in a short time and i'm sure things will keep getting better

 

[ShannonMcCatholic]

I posted that before this happened:
So he went to sleep around 11 p.m which is better than his norm. We were surprised but happy. He went to sleep at 11:30 night before last and 1 a.m or later three nights ago.

However, he woke up crying once and we comforted him and he went back to sleep. Not a half hour later he was up crying again. Hubby decided to let A lay with him. So I said "Good idea" so they laid together and we both thought "This will work for tonight" So hubby asks A "Why do you keep waking up?" and A says "Because my feet hurt and my legs hurt"
SO I tried to rub them (its going on 2 a.m at this point)
And he said not to touch them so I gave him an age appropriate dose of children's Acetaminophen, thinking whatever pain it was could be relieved with that. So I doled it out he took it well and I went to lie down on the couch since my son had my spot in bed but at that point whatever it took to get him back to dream land.

I fell asleep with ease after that this is my husband's account:
A wouldn't sleep. Hubby tried to turn on a baseball game, however A kept cutting up. A started to cry at some point in the late part of the morning so loud that he woke up J. J woke up crying so hubby decided to give him a bottle while mommy slept. He took the whole bottle and went back to sleep. A was still resisting sleep. He didn't go to sleep fully until close to 7 a.m.

Now hubby is asleep and Mommy is awake watching J play a little bit.

Please if you will include my husband in your prayers today. It will be a struggle for him to be okay while I work.

Sounds like RLS. In adults you can minimize the pain with cal/mag before bed. I don't know about children, though. Maybe a call into your pediatrician?? If he is in pain, no wonder he can't sleep! Poor kiddo! Hope y'all get naps today!

 

[CruciFixed]

Thanks Shannon. I cant nap I work all day but will hopefully get to bed early. I'll call the pediatrician Monday.

 

[benedictaoo]

My oldest takes melatonin. It helps him a lot. They have chewable melatonin at Trader JOes.

Can you just take the stress out of it and just all go to bed together, at the same time? Increase his nap time or push it later in the day and then just go to bed together? I dunno--we sometimes get into an idea of what "ought" to be, rather than what is...even when what "ought to be" is really not gonna work for us.

we used to do that when i only had two little children. I think they were 2 and 4. We used to let them in bed with us and they would laugh and play for a few minutes and then go to sleep. I don't care what people say about it not being good. I see nothing wrong with it.

 

[CruciFixed]

I wanted to ask if sensory issues are hereditary. My husband has sensory issues. I forgot to mention that before.

 

[benedictaoo]

I am about to come out and say I'm a bad mom I never taught my son about God except to say "God created you and me"

But this is neat....he picked up my crucifix today and I said "What do you have?" and my husband said "Yeah what is that?" He said "This has God on it"
I said "What?" He said "It just has God on it see?" and pointed to Christ.

He got ahold of my Rosary as well and I said "Where's my rosary?" He said "I just love the Rosary" I said "Where did you put it?" He said "Daddy took your God mom" lol and my husband did take it from him.

I just think those things are neat that he says even though I never told him that I tell him "You know who that is?" He says "Thats Jesus..." I said "And who is Jesus?" He says "Jesus is God." LOL

I don't remember ever actually teaching him that and I didn't think to yet because the trinity is complicated.

awe, that's so sweet...

My autistic son had me laughing so hard one day... I can't ember what it was about- he was praying for something and said, Jesus is not listing to me, he must be having dinner with Mary... lol.