How to combat racism

[Percivale]

If you want your child to do well in school, is it a good idea to constantly call him stupid? No.
Does that apply to adults too? Yes.
So, if you constantly call people racist, will that make them more or less racist?
I think it makes the problem worse. Liberals are really trying to push the idea that lots of Americans are still racist. Sometimes they call it institutional racism. That sort of talk will irritate or anger many people; nobody likes being accused of evil. It pushes some toward despair or apathy; if after all we've done trying to be fair and colorblind we're still racist, what more can we do? Better just give up.

And this may be what the liberal elite wants. If racism really goes away, they lose their position of prestige and influence as spokesman for the downtrodden races.

 

[abdAlSalam]

First and foremost, to combat racism, one must destroy the institutions that aid and abet racism. In the case of the US, this means the complete abolition of international Capitalism and especially the bourgeois institutions that we refer to as the legislaturw, executive, and judiciary.

 

[jacks]

Yes insulting someone is usually not the best way to get them to change. It may shut them up, but it doesn't change their thinking. So the first step in combating racism would be to allow for an open (non judgmental) dialogue.

 

[Soyeong]

Obama could have done a lot to reduce racial tensions, but he played the race card every time, which only stirs up the problem and makes it worse.

 

[abdAlSalam]

Obama could have done a lot to reduce racial tensions, but he played the race card every time, which only stirs up the problem and makes it worse.

How so?

 

[Soyeong]

How so?

For a while you couldn't criticize anything about him without being accused of being racist, but Obama did nothing to take a stand against that to open the way for a meaningful dialogue. It doesn't matter if anyone is racist, if you repeat the lie often enough people are going to believe and view themselves as victims, which increases racial tensions even if nothing racist was actually done. But the left survives on telling people believing they are victims so that they can champion their cause, so it would be political suicide if they were to eliminate racism. If there were no victims, it would be necessary for liberals to invent them.

 

[Armoured]

If you want your child to do well in school, is it a good idea to constantly call him stupid? No.
Does that apply to adults too? Yes.
So, if you constantly call people racist, will that make them more or less racist?
I think it makes the problem worse. Liberals are really trying to push the idea that lots of Americans are still racist. Sometimes they call it institutional racism. That sort of talk will irritate or anger many people; nobody likes being accused of evil. It pushes some toward despair or apathy; if after all we've done trying to be fair and colorblind we're still racist, what more can we do? Better just give up.

And this may be what the liberal elite wants. If racism really goes away, they lose their position of prestige and influence as spokesman for the downtrodden races.

Kill all the intolerant people.

 

[abdAlSalam]

For a while you couldn't criticize anything about him without being accused of being racist

Which criticism specifically was called racist?

, but Obama did nothing to take a stand against that to open the way for a meaningful dialogue.

Is every politician called to repudiate every radical associated with their calls for action? Somehow I feel this isn't a road you actually wish to tread.

It doesn't matter if anyone is racist, if you repeat the lie often enough people are going to believe and view themselves as victims, which increases racial tensions even if nothing racist was actually done.

Might I suggest a reading list? It doesn't sound like you've done much in depth thought about racism in the U.S. might I suggest the works of Ta Nehisi Coates?

But the left survives on telling people believing they are victims so that they can champion their cause, so it would be political suicide if they were to eliminate racism.

What if they really are victims of oppression (both historical and contemporary) though? If some people were actually currently being oppressed by our current societal system? An abstract question, I know. But what if it were actually true? Would you advocate direct action to combat such oppression?

 

[Soyeong]

Which criticism specifically was called racist?

There were many, many examples of statements discussions about policies that had absolutely nothing to do with racism that fell under that accusation, but I don't particularly feel like digging through posts made years ago to cite them all.

Is every politician called to repudiate every radical associated with their calls for action? Somehow I feel this isn't a road you actually wish to tread.

Of course not, that you would think it was just radicals shows that you haven't been paying much attention to the issue.

Might I suggest a reading list? It doesn't sound like you've done much in depth thought about racism in the U.S. might I suggest the works of Ta Nehisi Coates?

If you're not aware of the role of victimhood, then you haven't really put much in depth thought about racism, might I suggest reading a book about it?

What if they really are victims of oppression (both historical and contemporary) though? If some people were actually currently being oppressed by our current societal system? An abstract question, I know. But what if it were actually true? Would you advocate direct action to combat such oppression?

I was not suggesting that there were no victims of racism, but that it is in their interest to blow it way out of proportion.

 

[abdAlSalam]

There were many, many examples of statements discussions about policies that had absolutely nothing to do with racism that fell under that accusation, but I don't particularly feel like digging through posts made years ago to cite them all.

Oh! No need to cite them all comrade! Just cite 1 or 2, and that will suffice.

Of course not, that you would think it was just radicals shows that you haven't been paying much attention to the issue.

excellent! That should make your search even easier then! One non radical who believes that every disagreement with Obama is rooted in racism! This should be easy for you!

If you're not aware of the role of victimhood, then you haven't really put much in depth thought about racism, might I suggest reading a book about it?

Of course! I am always willing to learn. What book should I read, that will show me that victimhood is the true source of animosity in our society?

I was not suggesting that there were no victims of racism, but that it is in their interest to blow it way out of proportion.

Yes but again it's an abstract question. If a certain minority in any society was facing acute oppression, would it be proper for them to engage in mass action? I do believe that that was my original question.

 

[CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN]

So, if you constantly call people racist, will that make them more or less racist?
I think it makes the problem worse. Liberals are really trying to push the idea that lots of Americans are still racist. Sometimes they call it institutional racism. That sort of talk will irritate or anger many people; nobody likes being accused of evil. It pushes some toward despair or apathy; if after all we've done trying to be fair and colorblind we're still racist, what more can we do? Better just give up.

The Liberals are telling the truth. A lot of people are racist. They learn it more from family or friends. The Liberals are just telling the truth and people don't want to listen or believe it. When you have black and Hispanic family you really see it.

 

[dgiharris]

If you want your child to do well in school, is it a good idea to constantly call him stupid? No.
Does that apply to adults too? Yes.
So, if you constantly call people racist, will that make them more or less racist?
I think it makes the problem worse. Liberals are really trying to push the idea that lots of Americans are still racist. Sometimes they call it institutional racism. That sort of talk will irritate or anger many people; nobody likes being accused of evil. It pushes some toward despair or apathy; if after all we've done trying to be fair and colorblind we're still racist, what more can we do? Better just give up.

And this may be what the liberal elite wants. If racism really goes away, they lose their position of prestige and influence as spokesman for the downtrodden races.

I have the misfortune of being a big black man. During the course of my life I have never been arrested, never committed a crime, never been under suspicion of having committed a crime, and even during most of my adult life held a top secret clearance. And yet, I have had police draw guns on me multiple times.

In the corporate world, I can't tell you how many times I've been in earshot of people who didn't know I was around and got to listen to what they really thought of blacks or Hispanics.

I find your post pretty insulting. You do not believe racism exists or if it does exist, it is mild and blown out of proportion or it is the fault of the oppressed. If only they would be quiet and know their place racism would go away...

Are there things that blacks and/or Hispanics do wrong in regards to lessening racism? Sure. I can easily grant that there are some things we do wrong. However, that is not synonymous with us being the cause of racism.

Truth is, there IS racism and a lot of the racism is systemic and institutional. It's not a matter of opinion, it's a matter of fact. You can dig up data on it from all aspects of life. From the judicial system (judgements against blacks vs whites for the same crime) to police arrests (police profiling and focus on minorities) to legislation (racially biased laws)...

Every day I encounter racism, just the other day I was alone in an elevator at a hotel. It opens and an Asian lady is about to come in, sees me, stops, backs up, and waits for the next elevator because apparently being alone with me in an elevator is not safe. My favorite is when I'm walking down the sidewalk and the person approaching me crosses the street, then passes me, then crosses back. That happens to me about 25% of the time whenever I take a walk (I live in a decent neighborhood).

Anyways, I just get annoyed when the "well racism isn't so bad" type of discussions come up. Sure, things are way better than they were 50 years ago. I will grant that, but there is still racism and I encounter it daily in some way shape or form.

 

[JustOneWay]

If you want your child to do well in school, is it a good idea to constantly call him stupid? No.
Does that apply to adults too? Yes.
So, if you constantly call people racist, will that make them more or less racist?
I think it makes the problem worse. Liberals are really trying to push the idea that lots of Americans are still racist. Sometimes they call it institutional racism. That sort of talk will irritate or anger many people; nobody likes being accused of evil. It pushes some toward despair or apathy; if after all we've done trying to be fair and colorblind we're still racist, what more can we do? Better just give up.

And this may be what the liberal elite wants. If racism really goes away, they lose their position of prestige and influence as spokesman for the downtrodden races.

Are you saying that people not call out racism because it will make racism worse?

 

[JustOneWay]

I have the misfortune of being a big black man. During the course of my life I have never been arrested, never committed a crime, never been under suspicion of having committed a crime, and even during most of my adult life held a top secret clearance. And yet, I have had police draw guns on me multiple times.

In the corporate world, I can't tell you how many times I've been in earshot of people who didn't know I was around and got to listen to what they really thought of blacks or Hispanics.

I find your post pretty insulting. You do not believe racism exists or if it does exist, it is mild and blown out of proportion or it is the fault of the oppressed. If only they would be quiet and know their place racism would go away...

Are there things that blacks and/or Hispanics do wrong in regards to lessening racism? Sure. I can easily grant that there are some things we do wrong. However, that is not synonymous with us being the cause of racism.

Truth is, there IS racism and a lot of the racism is systemic and institutional. It's not a matter of opinion, it's a matter of fact. You can dig up data on it from all aspects of life. From the judicial system (judgements against blacks vs whites for the same crime) to police arrests (police profiling and focus on minorities) to legislation (racially biased laws)...

Every day I encounter racism, just the other day I was alone in an elevator at a hotel. It opens and an Asian lady is about to come in, sees me, stops, backs up, and waits for the next elevator because apparently being alone with me in an elevator is not safe. My favorite is when I'm walking down the sidewalk and the person approaching me crosses the street, then passes me, then crosses back. That happens to me about 25% of the time whenever I take a walk (I live in a decent neighborhood).

Anyways, I just get annoyed when the "well racism isn't so bad" type of discussions come up. Sure, things are way better than they were 50 years ago. I will grant that, but there is still racism and I encounter it daily in some way shape or form.

Some people just have no understanding of empathy. You present a view of what it is like to be a black man, just as Obama has done. They turn it around and make it as though all you and he are doing is stirring the pot and dredging up old racial wounds.

I believe the OP wants you to stop talking about racism so it can go back into the closet. Apparently, calling out racism only makes it worse....

I say you keep telling your story until everybody understands.

 

[dgiharris]

Are you saying that people not call out racism because it will make racism worse?

Yes, he is. It is an interesting argument I run up against every so often in race related discussions.

I used to work around a lot of ubber rich people and a common argument I would hear from them is that racism is the fault of the minorities because they are "looking" for examples of racism and because they "believe" racism exists.

Another argument I'm familiar with is more or less the argument that racism is justified. Because blacks commit more crimes on a percentage basis then whites, it only makes sense to profile them and pull them over more. The problem with this is that once a police man has it in his head you are guilty of a crime, they just don't stop until they get you on something. A common occurrence is for the police to approach you for suspected drugs, not find the drugs, but then arrest you for resisting arrest. So you are charged for resisting arrest for a crime you did not commit. Another oldie but a goodie is when they don't find something, they arrest you for loitering, trespassing, or disturbing the peace, that is, you arguing with them about them being in the wrong has now become "disturbing the peace" and you are arrested for that.

 

[The Cadet]

If you want your child to do well in school, is it a good idea to constantly call him stupid? No.
Does that apply to adults too? Yes.
So, if you constantly call people racist, will that make them more or less racist?

Wow, this is a really terrible comparison. One of the things bound up in education is work. Lots and lots of hard work. It's not easy to become educated, and if you try, and try, and try, and fail, then it's easy to internalize it. After all, it's not that bad to be stupid, right? And some people just aren't as bright as others, regardless of education.

Racism is not like this. There is no condition in which racism is socially acceptable. It is not hardwired into us; there is no significant gap in our feelings of racial empathy that compares to IQ, and it's pretty easy for most people to just spend a minute or two checking to make sure that they're not being racist when they take certain actions. Hell, a lot of the times, if you call someone out on their racism, you'll find that they didn't realize that they were being racist, and often they will change their behavior as a result. Calling out racism is usually a pretty good thing.

I think it makes the problem worse. Liberals are really trying to push the idea that lots of Americans are still racist. Sometimes they call it institutional racism. That sort of talk will irritate or anger many people; nobody likes being accused of evil. It pushes some toward despair or apathy; if after all we've done trying to be fair and colorblind we're still racist, what more can we do? Better just give up.

How did "not talking about it" go for African-Americans between the civil war and the civil rights movement? Just wondering.

Look, institutionalized racism is a fact. There's no way around this. From the quite frankly disgusting racial statistics of Stop and Frisk to arrest rates and prison terms for the same crimes to the number of lethal interactions with the police to redlining in the housing market to getting loans for the self-same housing to the job market, colleges, and countless other factors, white people have it easier than black people in almost every single area of their lives. Do you honestly think "ignore it" is the right solution here? No, ignoring it is how we get into messes like this in the first place! We need to call it out when we see it, and demand that people change! Just sitting there and letting it fester leads to things getting worse and worse. See also: Ferguson and Baltimore. You think these people are rioting for no reason? The shooting in Ferguson was just the tip of the iceberg of the kind of abuse of the black community that was going on there.

And this may be what the liberal elite wants. If racism really goes away, they lose their position of prestige and influence as spokesman for the downtrodden races.

...Wow, this post just took a left turn at crazytown.

 

[Percivale]

I did not deny that racism exists; rather I'm interested in how to fix it, and I'm pretty sure accusing everybody of being racist is not the way. I think the way that would work is by fixing the continuing problems past racism has caused, such as the economic and social situation of blacks being lower on average. Policies that give more freedom to get a good education (like school vouchers), anything that encourages stable families (including reducing sentencing for non-violent crime), maybe a special FHA style loan to make it easier for blacks to own property, all seem like good ideas. The church can do more too. If this succeeds in making the stereotypes totally false, racism will soon be gone. That worked for Asians; they were victims of racism once too, but now are more respected than whites.

 

[Percivale]

...Wow, this post just took a left turn at crazytown.

So, you think it's crazy to think the left might be subject to the same human weaknesses as the right, like hypocrisy or desire for power?

 

[Maynard Keenan]

A lot of people are racist. Here's thing thing, though: That doesn't mean a lot of people are evil monsters trying to hold black people down. We've got to get over that concept of racism as being representative of racism and its effect, or as even particularly relevant to our society. The "I hate ******" racist is rarely in any position of power or influence. Those people don't drive racial inequality. We have two problems driving racial inequality. One is legacy: for most of the time after the end of slavery, there WERE active policies that benefited whites and suppressed blacks, and these directly led to an unequal society. The second is less overt, implicit bias. It's what drives people to be more likely to hire someone who is white, even when a black applicant has equal qualifications. It's what drives people to be more wary around black men than white men. It's isn't an active desire to suppress anyone, but it's real nonetheless. It doesn't make you evil, it doesn't make you a monster, it makes you human. It's no moral judgment against a person to accuse of this, because it's universal to have biases. The only moral judgment is against those who refuse to acknowledge that it may be true, and refuse to do anything to compensate for it. These are the barriers that we must overcome now. We must work to acknowledge and suppress within ourselves any biases we have, and we must work to fix an unequal society that was made unequal by deliberate intent, even if that deliberate intent was not our own.

 

[stamperben]

The racist answer to battle racism is to just IGNORE it.

But it doesn't go away.