How old is the earth?

[tonychanyt]

Some Christians think that the earth is between 6000 to 15,000 years old (coinciding with the Neolithic Age). Astronomers think that it is 4.5 billion years old. Here is an attempt to resolve this incongruity.

Jesus turns water into wine in John 2:

7 Jesus said to the servants, “Fill the jars with water”; so they filled them to the brim.
8 Then he told them, “Now draw some out and take it to the master of the banquet.”

How old is this wine?

If you ask the servants, the human observers/witnesses, they would say a few seconds old.

The story continues:

9 and the master of the banquet tasted the water that had been turned into wine. He did not realize where it had come from, though the servants who had drawn the water knew. Then he called the bridegroom aside 10and said, “Everyone brings out the choice wine first and then the cheaper wine after the guests have had too much to drink; but you have saved the best till now.”

If you ask the expert, the master of the banquet, "how old is this wine?", he would say it was some months or even years old.

So which answer is true?

Both are true depending on the perspective. The supernatural perspective tells us that it was only a second old. The natural perspective tells us that it was at least some months old.

Similarly, in Genesis 1:

1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters. ... 31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day.

How old is the earth?

If we ask an astronomer from the natural perspective, he can only study the present-day physical data based on scientific calculation. It is 4.5 billion years old. That's the scientific space-time perspective.

On the other hand, from the supernatural angle, if we read the Bible literally, the present-day earth is only some thousands of years old. That's the biblical witnessed-time perspective.

So which answer is true?

Both are true depending on the time perspective. God created the earth with the embedded evolutionary records of billions of years of real history. The Bible is not a scientific treatise. It focuses on the story of redemption. In terms of witnessed-time history, it is only some thousands of years old. On the other hand, from the scientific point of view, the earth is billions of years old.

Note that this is not the same as Last Thursdayism because God tells me the contrary. God did not create the universe last Thursday. Genesis contradicts this. I can also contradict this. I was alive last Thursday. God was with me. God dwells in me. It happened in real live-time. I didn't see God create this universe last Thursday. I believe in the words of God, not Last Thursdayism.

Jesus spoke about it as a historical witnessed-time event in Mark 10:

6 “But at the beginning of creation God ‘made them male and female.’

From the perspective of scientific time, the details of this embedding are amazing:

• 24,000-year-old animal found alive, well, and ready to reproduce
• Fossils reveal what may be the oldest known case of the dino sniffles.

There are two different frameworks of time. Basically, witnessed-time started when Adam opened his eyes while space-time is measured by scientific calculations. Both are physically real in their respective framework of time. Even scientifically, there is something funny about time.

See also Adam, Eve, and evolution.

 

[BobRyan]

Some Christians think that the earth is between 6000 to 15,000 years old (coinciding with the Neolithic Age).

The Bible record shows that life on Earth is only around 6000 years old but we don't know from that - how old the rocks on Earth are.

Jesus turns water into wine in John 2:

God makes Adam and Eve as adults - they would not appear to be 1 day old zygotes...nor even one day old humans. They would appear to be 24 or something around that age. For practical useful reasons -- not merely "to deceive the one that sees them" as some evolutionists have claimed against the Bible.

How old is the earth?

If we ask an astronomer from the natural perspective, he can only study the present-day physical data based on scientific calculation. It is 4.5 billion years old.

It is based on guesswork - assumptions about starting conditions. Not direct observation of the starting conditions.

Notice how flummoxed they seem to be about the findings of the James Webb space telescope regarding the early conditions of the Universe.

 

[tonychanyt]

It is based on guesswork

Based on this guesswork, scientists have sent a rover to land on Mars. It is running around on its surface right now

 

[d taylor]

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Well the earth (land/ground) was created in Genesis 1:1 along with the heaven or heavens (depending on what type of Bible you have). So the age is unknowable. That earth created in Genesis 1:1 was restored in Genesis 1: 3 - end of Chapter 1 so that restoration happened around 6000+ years ago.

 

[pgp_protector]

Given we've got civilizations dating older than 10,000 years some to over 50,000 (Aboriginal Australians) I'd have to go with the 4.5B age for the earth.

 

[tonychanyt]

over 50,000 (Aboriginal Australians)

Do you have a reference for this?

 

[SavedByGrace3]

The notion that God created a narrative in the sky and in the earth that states the earth is 4.5 billion years old and the universe 14.5 billion years old has problems. These fossil records and stories in the skies would essentially be lies. He created a (fictional) story that is not true. Of course He could do this. He could create light that appears to have been traveling through space for billions of years as a record of things that never happened. We see a super nova recorded in the star light that never actually happened. And He could create a fossil record and a geologic record that makes the earth appear to be billions of years old. But why deceive us? The heavens declare the glory of God and the firmament showeth forth his handywork. What you are seeing in the sky and in the earth are the result of His hands. Are they lies? Are they a fictional record of things that never really happened?

 

[tonychanyt]

And He could create a fossil record and a geologic record that makes the earth appear to be billions of years old. But why deceive us?

What make you think that it is a deception?

 

[BobRyan]

Based on this guesswork, scientists have sent a rover to land on Mars. It is running around on its surface right now

not true.

The ability to apply physics, math, engineering to a problem is very different from wild speculation about "bacteria eventually giving rise to rabbits given enough time and chance".

To equivocate between those two is to miss a great deal of the challenge facing faith in evolutionism.

 

[tonychanyt]

not true.

I wrote: scientists have sent a rover to land on Mars. It is running around on its surface right now.

You replied: not true.

What exactly is not true about what I wrote?

 

[SavedByGrace3]

What make you think that it is a deception?

It would seem to be if the earth were only a few thousand years old.

 

[tonychanyt]

It would seem to be if the earth were only a few thousand years old.

I distinguish between these two concepts of time. The Bible speaks of events that happened in the real historical witnessed-time. Scientific research speaks in terms of space-time even when there were no live animals there to observe the original events. They are both true to me

 

[SavedByGrace3]

I distinguish between these two concepts of time. The Bible speaks of events that happened in the real historical witnessed-time. Scientific research speaks in terms of space-time even when there were no live animals there to observe the original events. They are both true to me

Ok... but you know if you can change the rules of time and space, anything could be forced into a truth. But I get you.

 

[tonychanyt]

you can change the rules of time and space

In what way did I change the rules of time and space?

 

[SavedByGrace3]

In what way did I change the rules of time and space?

Perhaps I misunderstood you.

 

[tonychanyt]

multiple scientific disciplines also establish that there were witnesses long before the timeframe of Young Earthers.

Thanks for the well-thought-out reply

Do you think any of these witnesses before Adam would get resurrected and judged for what they did while they were alive?

 

[tonychanyt]

I think an orthodox Christian position would have to be, "No, they weren't sufficiently human in the sense the Bible is talking about

Thanks for being reasonable

According to my theory here, the answer is no also because unlike Adam, Eve, ..., and me, they never received a breath from God at the time when we were born to animate our souls. In that sense, hominids were not eternal witnesses.

 

[juvenissun]

Thanks for being reasonable

According to my theory here, the answer is no also because unlike Adam, Eve, ..., and me, they never received a breath from God at the time when we were born to animate our souls. In that sense, hominids were not eternal witnesses.

This might be a side track, you do not have to respond:
God's Breath to Adam is a one-time deal. There is no need for God to do this to every human being.
God's Breath gives us human spirit. Once Adam has it, all mankind inherited it.
The real problem is the existence of our soul. Our flesh has a physical origin, but not our soul.

 

[tonychanyt]

God's Breath to Adam is a one-time deal.

Adam was the first case. So the Bible writer made a special mention of it. Later when Eve was formed, this detail was skipped.

There is no need for God to do this to every human being.
God's Breath gives us human spirit. Once Adam has it, all mankind inherited it.

The breath of life comes from God, not from Adam. We inherit it when a detached breath of God touches our fetal body.

The real problem is the existence of our soul. Our flesh has a physical origin, but not our soul.

Good point. See a definition of the soul and follow up there

 

[Diamond7]

Some Christians think that the earth is between 6000 to 15,000 years old (coinciding with the Neolithic Age). Astronomers think that it is 4.5 billion years old. Here is an attempt to resolve this incongruity.

You are not talking about the same thing at all. OEC & YEC are both correct in what they are saying. Adam and Eve did live 6,000 years ago and that was the beginning of many many things. Or if a day is 1,000 years that fits also. They are all true and correct in their own context.