How do Christians reconcile their faith with prophecies that Jesus didn't fulfill?

[unsure_one]

Also w

Also note when it says - latter end - latter days.

I will, thank you

 

[Hieronymus]

It's an easy excuse for why Jesus didn't fulfill some of the prophecies: "He'll do them later."

It's not an excuse, so...

 

[unsure_one]

It's not an excuse, so...

To you it may not seem that way, but to an outsider that's what it seems like. Imagine if someone came along and claimed to be the second coming of Christ, despite only fulfilling some of the prophecies. Would you believe them?

 

[Hieronymus]

To you it may not seem that way, but to an outsider that's what it seems like.

Wel, then they're wrong.

 

[unsure_one]

Wel, then they're wrong.

That's not a very convincing argument.

 

[vinsight4u]

/

 

[Shimshon]

The prophecies don't appear (to me) to be divided that cleanly into "these prophecies first" and "those prophecies later", but it's something to think about and I will re-read the Old Testament with this in mind.

A tree, once planted, spends many years growing. Then when the time is just right it puts forth it's fruit. Messiah is The Seed, he was planted, the soil was tilled and prepared (Judaism/Israel) and then the seed sprouted into a seedling (Messiah born) and it grew in the soil and spread out it's branches (disciples) and has now grown into a huge tree (all who have faith in Messiah). Soon, the tree will produce fruit for the nations to feed on. And all will be fed by the work and will of the almighty.

My point is, your focusing on one point in time and seemingly are refusing or unable to comprehend the entire picture.

One of the main points of prophecy that surround the coming of Messiah is the regathering of Israel and her redemption and renewal. The coming of Messiah was directly related to the restoration of Israel. So one either has to believe that Messiah was full of it, or that Israel is yet to be restored. Likewise, like you, you can either believe that Messiah is full of it because he didn't accomplish all that was spoken about him, in your understanding and timing. Or you can believe that Messiah has not accomplished ALL that was foretold, yet.

 

[Hieronymus]

That's not a very convincing argument.

It is when you study the Scripture and exegesis behind it.

 

[unsure_one]

One of the main points of prophecy that surround the coming of Messiah is the regathering of Israel and her redemption and renewal. The coming of Messiah was directly related to the restoration of Israel. So one either has to believe that Messiah was full of it, or that Israel is yet to be restored. Likewise, like you, you can either believe that Messiah is full of it because he didn't accomplish all that was spoken about him, in your understanding and timing. Or you can believe that Messiah has not accomplished ALL that was foretold, yet.

Clearly, I am unsure which to believe.

 

[vinsight4u]

/

 

[vinsight4u]

/

 

[Shimshon]

Clearly, I am unsure which to believe.

I understand The fact that you are seeking and interested is the start, the sprout. One thing I try to stress is to not only grasp what is written, but to seek a personal relationship with Messiah as well. The only thing others should be leading you to are the arms and the Spirit of Messiah. I believe he is real and active in every believers life. I do not believe we were left only books and studies but are given the Spirit who lives within us and leads us into all he said and says. I believe many are suffering from this lack of relationship today. Hungry and starving for it..(reminds me of Vineyard) This does not make the books in err, it means we have a more sure Word, placed within your souls.

When you study the prophecies of Messiah, look and see how interconnected they are with the restoration of Israel. The reason they look so disjointed from a Christian point of view is most believe Israel is only restored by the conversion into the church. Who is then made to receive all the promises given Israel because of Messiah's coming. The reason I believe you are seeing disconnects within the prophecies is because most of Christianity has disconnected itself away from Israel, and replaced her with itself. i.e. Replacement or Reformed theology. Which has butchered the prophecies of Messiah to teach such things. The common statement from them is ALL was fulfilled. Israel is now Spiritual Israel. Yet the prophecies declare otherwise....

 

[dcalling]

To you it may not seem that way, but to an outsider that's what it seems like. Imagine if someone came along and claimed to be the second coming of Christ, despite only fulfilling some of the prophecies. Would you believe them?

Need to see what their teachings are.
Do they teach to Love God with all and Love your neighbor as yourself? Do they teach not to revenge? Do they teach that we are all sinners and can only be saved by God's grace? Should be easy to distinguish.

 

[unsure_one]

Need to see what their teachings are.
Do they teach to Love God with all and Love your neighbor as yourself? Do they teach not to revenge? Do they teach that we are all sinners and can only be saved by God's grace? Should be easy to distinguish.

These don't seem like very strict criteria. Someone who isn't the Messiah could teach exactly these things.

 

[Job8]

The idea that Jesus is the Messiah rests on Him having fulfilled the prophecies of the Old Testament. If He didn't fulfill some, doesn't that exclude Him from being the Messiah?

Jesus fulfilled all the prophecies pertaining to His first coming as the Lamb of God. He will fulfil all the other prophecies at His Second Coming, when He comes to judge and execute wrath against His enemies.

And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him. (Jude 14,15).

 

[Lance & Rite]

Christianity (and Judaism) were originally very esoteric but like most religions, they've become more literal over time. So a lot of things in the NT and the OT were never taken literally and fulfillment of the prophecies refers to people's spiritual salvation or metaphysical events and did not necessarily mean that everyone will float up into the air, or that there literally was two every animal on the ark, etc.

 

[dqhall]

The Hebrew Bible (OT) is not a perfect book. God sent Jesus to give us a better covenant. God reveals himself to who he will. Those who know God know God can provide. Those gifted by the Holy Spirit no longer rely on a book, but on one greater than the book. Since books are supposed to be records of knowledge, one may gain from reading. Some books are records of what is bad in society as bad people also wrote books. One should exercise caution while reading. Separating fact from fiction requires some belief in the truth. A book may contain fact and fiction as does the Bible.

There are true predictions and false predictions. To find a prediction that Jews will return to Israel and then deny it happened on the basis that some Jews remain in the diaspora is flawed. Millions of Jews live in a land that shunned them before WWI. That is Israel. Jews also returned to Israel after the Persians defeated the Babylonians c. 539 BC and Jews were given the right to return to Israel.

 

[Linet Kihonge]

Isaiah 2:11-17, "Is about the LORD's judgment to all the people of the world.

Isaiah 40: Is about the LORD's coming and how everything will shake up and everyone will see him.

Zephaniah 3: is also about the same thing... It sounds like how the LORD will judge the haughty and proud and only those who were holy will dwell in his Holy Mountain.

Listen: Even in Revelations after everything comes to an end or to a "brink of extinction" there are still those who won't still believe in the LORD. Otherwise, Jesus the Messiah came and died on the cross but his coming wasn't obvious because,

Mark 8: 28-30, "They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, one of the prophets.”
29“But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”
Peter answered, “You are the Messiah.”
30Jesus warned them not to tell anyone about him.

In lay man's language Jesus sneaked up on the Jews. It was up to people believe in Christ otherwise, he wasn't going to say "He was the One!"

How do you know?

 

[Serving Zion]

But wasn't the day of the Lord supposed to occur when the Messiah came? Wasn't that the point of the prophecy?

He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

John 1:11-13

“Listen to another parable: There was a landowner who planted a vineyard. He put a wall around it, dug a winepress in it and built a watchtower. Then he rented the vineyard to some farmers and moved to another place. When the harvest time approached, he sent his servants to the tenants to collect his fruit.

“The tenants seized his servants; they beat one, killed another, and stoned a third. Then he sent other servants to them, more than the first time, and the tenants treated them the same way. Last of all, he sent his son to them. ‘They will respect my son,’ he said.

“But when the tenants saw the son, they said to each other, ‘This is the heir. Come, let’s kill him and take his inheritance.’ So they took him and threw him out of the vineyard and killed him.

Matthew 21:33-39

 

[graceandpeace]

How can you believe Jesus is the Messiah without believing that He fulfilled OT prophecy?

Let me try putting it another way.

I don't place much emphasis on OT "prophecy" as a definite prediction of Jesus, because many of the commonly cited passages aren't, in context, definite predictions in the first place.

For example, take the Isaiah 53 passage again. In its context, in light of the surrounding Isaiah passages, chapter 53 isn't literally about Jesus. The passage is literally about Israel, God's people, the suffering servant.

But, when Jesus came, laying down His life, suffering as a servant, living as a servant, Christians began to see Jesus in the passage. Jesus now is the suffering servant, the God-man bearing the burdens of God's people.

The Isaiah 53 passage then is not literally about Jesus, but the imagery of the suffering servant finds a new, sort of final fulfillment in Jesus, based on the Christian experience & narrative.

If this still doesn't make sense, I could offer a different example.