How 9 out of 10 Americans think wealth should be distributed

RDKirk

Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner
Site Supporter
Mar 3, 2013
39,293
20,294
US
✟1,477,691.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
how about "you are the salt of the earth"?

How about it?

Different metaphor serving a different purpose.

How about "You will be fishers of men."

Is anyone expected to keep his metaphors consistent over different speeches over different years to different groups of people for different purposes? How absurd.
 
Upvote 0

Assyrian

Basically pulling an Obama (Thanks Calminian!)
Mar 31, 2006
14,868
991
Wales
✟27,286.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
How about it?

Different metaphor serving a different purpose.

How about "You will be fishers of men."

Is anyone expected to keep his metaphors consistent over different speeches over different years to different groups of people for different purposes? How absurd.
Fishers of men speaks of drawing people from into the kingdom. Salt of the earth refers to effect Christians have on the world itself. you haven't answered ny original question. Do Christians ignore all that Jesus taught them if they are in government or vote for people to represent their views in government? Or are you taking the "My kingdom is not of this world" to mean Christians shouldn't be in government or vote?
 
Upvote 0

RDKirk

Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner
Site Supporter
Mar 3, 2013
39,293
20,294
US
✟1,477,691.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Fishers of men speaks of drawing people from into the kingdom. Salt of the earth refers to effect Christians have on the world itself. you haven't answered ny original question. Do Christians ignore all that Jesus taught them if they are in government or vote for people to represent their views in government? Or are you taking the "My kingdom is not of this world" to mean Christians shouldn't be in government or vote?

You didn't ask those questions.

The examples are given through Daniel, Hananiah, Mishael, Azariah, and Mordecai.

The "field manual" for Christians is given explicitly in 1 Peter.
 
Upvote 0

Assyrian

Basically pulling an Obama (Thanks Calminian!)
Mar 31, 2006
14,868
991
Wales
✟27,286.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Fishers of men speaks of drawing people from into the kingdom. Salt of the earth refers to effect Christians have on the world itself. you haven't answered ny original question. Do Christians ignore all that Jesus taught them if they are in government or vote for people to represent their views in government? Or are you taking the "My kingdom is not of this world" to mean Christians shouldn't be in government or vote?
You didn't ask those questions.
Question singular, I asked it in post 183:
Are Christians to ignore everything they learned from Christ when they are in government, or when they vote for a government?
The examples are given through Daniel, Hananiah, Mishael, Azariah, and Mordecai.

The "field manual" for Christians is given explicitly in 1 Peter.
You need to be more specific about what we learn from Daniel and friends, and from 1Peter.

Though there are certainly enough examples the OT demanding social justice.
Job 29:12 because I delivered the poor who cried for help, and the fatherless who had none to help him. 13 The blessing of him who was about to perish came upon me, and I caused the widow's heart to sing for joy.

Psalm 72:1 Of Solomon. Give the king your justice, O God, and your righteousness to the royal son!
2 May he judge your people with righteousness, and your poor with justice!
3 Let the mountains bear prosperity for the people, and the hills, in righteousness! 4 May he defend the cause of the poor of the people, give deliverance to the children of the needy, and crush the oppressor!
...11 May all kings fall down before him, all nations serve him!
12 For he delivers the needy when he calls, the poor and him who has no helper.
13 He has pity on the weak and the needy, and saves the lives of the needy.
14 From oppression and violence he redeems their life, and precious is their blood in his sight.

Psalm 82:3 Give justice to the weak and the fatherless; maintain the right of the afflicted and the destitute. 4 Rescue the weak and the needy; deliver them from the hand of the wicked."

Isaiah 10:1 Woe to those who decree iniquitous decrees, and the writers who keep writing oppression, 2 to turn aside the needy from justice and to rob the poor of my people of their right, that widows may be their spoil, and that they may make the fatherless their prey!

Ezekiel 16:49 Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride, excess of food, and prosperous ease, but did not aid the poor and needy.

Amos 2:6 Thus says the LORD: "For three transgressions of Israel, and for four, I will not revoke the punishment, because they sell the righteous for silver, and the needy for a pair of sandals--
7 those who trample the head of the poor into the dust of the earth and turn aside the way of the afflicted; a man and his father go in to the same girl, so that my holy name is profaned;


Amos 4:1 "Hear this word, you cows of Bashan, who are on the mountain of Samaria, who oppress the poor, who crush the needy, who say to your husbands, 'Bring, that we may drink!'
 
Upvote 0

[serious]

'As we treat the least of our brothers...' RIP GA
Site Supporter
Aug 29, 2006
15,100
1,716
✟72,846.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
If you look at the major countries of today, the USA has the longest lasting unterrepted form of government today. The reason most countries have abandoned the monarchies is because they have become obsoleted in modern times.

k
Longer than the UK?
 
Upvote 0

DaisyDay

I Did Nothing Wrong!! ~~Team Deep State
Jan 7, 2003
38,091
17,561
Finger Lakes
✟212,929.00
Country
United States
Faith
Unitarian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
my friend said that the wealth distrubution is fine because god is in control, adn the reason that rich people are so rich is because they work hard to earn in.
Yeah, right.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Suomipoika

Vito Corleone
Dec 3, 2005
2,156
184
42
Helsinki, Finland
✟23,288.00
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
Private
I almost have to laugh when I see stuff like this. Ominous music in minor key in background, shocking infographs, serious voice-over, etc.

If the poor are poor, how did they get there? This makes it sound like it's the fault of the rich. Why, if the rich weren't rich or at least AS rich as they are, somehow the poor would be better off. All we have to do is just take $$$$$$ from the wealthy and give it to the poor and everything will be ok, right? When has that EVER worked?

A Homeless Man Blows $100,000 of Free Money As Seen on Oprah - Yahoo Voices - voices.yahoo.com

On a recent Oprah Winfrey show that aired on Friday December 1, 2006, a homeless guest on the show was given $100,000 by a film director. The film director gave him this money as a test to see how he would spend the money.......Shockingly the film maker also gave him the opportunity to use a financial advisor and counselor for free. The homeless man did not take him up on his offer. He instead spent all of the money on whatever he felt like spending his money on. Surprisingly the homeless man lost everything and he stated that he is back on the streets and homeless again.

Would this happen to every poor person given $100K? Not necessarily, but if our entitlement system is any indication what happens when people are given $ without earning it, then a majority would just blow it.

Life isn't fair. Liberal do-gooders think that if they just redistribute enough wealth, they could change that. It won't work. At least in America, they majority of wealth is earned and not inherited.
Most Wealthy Individuals Earned, Not Inherited, Their Wealth - Forbes

Wow.






Looks like I should just leave this forum for another 2 years after this visit.
 
Upvote 0

Boondock_Saint

Member since 2006.
Jun 16, 2015
3,304
28
Chicago-ish
✟11,476.00
Country
United States
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Libertarian
This is America. How is it that I succeeded when others cannot? I will never understand. I think what it comes down to is the unwillingness of people to do anything about their circumstances and how easily they give up when they don't see any improvement within the first few months or years or decades.
 
Upvote 0

RDKirk

Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner
Site Supporter
Mar 3, 2013
39,293
20,294
US
✟1,477,691.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
This is America. How is it that I succeeded when others cannot? I will never understand. I think what it comes down to is the unwillingness of people to do anything about their circumstances and how easily they give up when they don't see any improvement within a decade or two.

You've been blessed without personal merit in ways you don't recognize.

I used to think that my progress was because I was smart, worked hard, and was a good Christian...until I met and grew to know a man who was a better man that I was in every way--smarter, worked harder, was even a better Christian--but had been hit with all the life issues I had missed from birth.

For instance, being raised as a military kid on military bases meant that my childhood was always in a neighborhood with 100% employment controlled by a benign despot. It was not by any means a "high end" life, nothing extravagant, no high life--very plain and bland. OTOH, I never faced a single day worried about what I'd have to eat or whether I'd have a place to live. The on-base neighborhoods were safe.

OTOH, he had been raised in a dangerous urban ghetto by an aunt--both parents and even his grandparents had been in prison.

So, yeah, I was doing a lot better than he was, but I realized it was only because my life had been blessed.
 
Upvote 0

Ken-1122

Newbie
Jan 30, 2011
13,574
1,790
✟225,690.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
This is America. How is it that I succeeded when others cannot? I will never understand. I think what it comes down to is the unwillingness of people to do anything about their circumstances and how easily they give up when they don't see any improvement within the first few months or years or decades.
I remember when I was a teenage kid working at McDonalds, there was an older guy (30ish) who was in the military who worked there part time. He often said things that sounded kinda wise to me and the fact that he was also a black man, I kinda looked up to him because I felt he could more so relate to my circumstances than anyone else thus I had more respect for what he had to say than I would anyone else I had contact with.
I had concerns about my financial future and he told me something that sounded too easy to be true.
He said in the USA if you follow these 5 simple rules it would be extremely rare if you still wind up poor.

1. Finish High School
2. Do not have any children before you get married, and once you get married, stay married
3. Don’t get married until you are at least 25 yrs old
4. Do not allow yourself to go to Juvenile hall, Jail, or Prison
5. Invest every penny you get your hands on.

It sounded too easy to be true so I had my doubts but I became determined to prove to myself weather it was true or not. Looking back, I was able to accomplish 4 of the 5 goals he set for me and I did not wind up poor. When I look at all the people I have had contact with who did wind up poor or with extreme financial problems, they all have failed in at least 1 of those categories.
I believe most people who wind up poor are that way as a result of bad financial decisions they have made

Ken
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

RDKirk

Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner
Site Supporter
Mar 3, 2013
39,293
20,294
US
✟1,477,691.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I remember when I was a teenage kid working at McDonalds, there was an older guy (30ish) who was in the military who worked there part time. He often said things that sounded kinda wise to me and the fact that he was also a black man, I kinda looked up to him because I felt he could more so relate to my circumstances than anyone else thus I had more respect for what he had to say than I would anyone else I had contact with.
I had concerns about my financial future and he told me something that sounded too easy to be true.
He said in the USA if you follow these 5 simple rules it would be extremely rare if you still wind up poor.

1. Finish High School
2. Do not have any children before you get married, and once you get married, stay married
3. Don’t get married until you are at least 25 yrs old
4. Do not allow yourself to go to Juvenile hall, Jail, or Prison
5. Invest every penny you get your hands on.

It sounded too easy to be true so I had my doubts but I became determined to prove to myself weather it was true or not. Looking back, I was able to accomplish 4 of the 5 goals he set for me and I did not wind up poor. When I look at all the people I have had contact with who did wind up poor or with extreme financial problems, they all have failed in at least 1 of those categories.
I believe most people who wind up poor are that way as a result of bad financial decisions they have made

Ken

Did you wonder why a former military man in his thirties was working in McDonald's part time?

Well...I won't make an assumptions about that--heck, while I was still active duty military in my thirties, I spent a few months running pizzas for Domino's part-time.

But...did you wonder? Or did it somehow seem "appropriate" that a black man approaching middle age was working part-time in McDonalds so that you didn't even wonder about it? I hope you did wonder.

But because he was former military, he's actually "not your average black guy," at least not anymore.

Side observation: Back when I was in college in the early 70s, the "young rebel fashion statement" was the olive drab military field jacket. All young American men were wearing them (replacing the leather biker jacket of the 50s).

That's because Vietnam was the shared experience of the young men of that generation. A huge percentage of us had been to Vietnam. Almost all of us had held a draft card, so Vietnam had been a sword hanging over our heads whether we'd been there or not. It was a social issue that touched every single young man of the latter sixties. The olive drab Army field jacket was the symbol of that issue. You saw it everywhere, especially on urban streets where young black men had been drafted in much higher proportion than young white men.

Today, the "young rebel fashion statement" is the baggy, drooping trousers. I thought about that for a moment, and realized that for urban black youth today, prison is the "shared experience of the young men of that generation."

Like Vietnam, a huge percentage have been there--primarily because of the "war on drugs"--and a run-in with police that can easily end in incarceration hangs like a sword over every urban youth's head like Vietnam hung over mine. So...the baggy, saggy trousers today are like the Army field jacket of my day.

Sometimes I think about my life, which was never luxurious, but I'd still call it blessed. I never had to walk around criminals to get to school. I was never faced with a "join the gang or be killed" decision. I was never faced with a "skip school or be killed" situation.

In my day, education was still prized: The "intellectual" had an acknowledged role in the Revolution. Everyone in my world as a child and young man was fully engaged in supporting education. Even the bum on the street would have railed, "Why aren't you kids in school?" and would seriously inquire "Young man, what are you going to be when you grow up?"

And when I think about it, that was a question any and all adults had for us: "What are you going to be when you grow up?" We were asked that question constantly by adults everywhere.

That's an interesting question because the questioner implied two things: A confidence that I would grow up--I would survive to adulthood--and a confidence that I was in charge of what I would become.

Do urban kids even get that kind of "subliminal encouragement" these days from all the adults around them?

I really can't say with casual glibness that I would have been man enough under the urban conditions of today to do any better.

I've known some men who have survived those conditions. I have great respect for those who have survived--they are mostly better men than I am. I listen to their stories and just say, "Damn."

But I have to say even for those who have not survived..."There but for the grace of God, perhaps go I."
 
Upvote 0

Ken-1122

Newbie
Jan 30, 2011
13,574
1,790
✟225,690.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
Did you wonder why a former military man in his thirties was working in McDonald's part time?

Well...I won't make an assumptions about that--heck, while I was still active duty military in my thirties, I spent a few months running pizzas for Domino's part-time.

But...did you wonder? Or did it somehow seem "appropriate" that a black man approaching middle age was working part-time in McDonalds so that you didn't even wonder about it? I hope you did wonder.
Actually he was still in the military. It is very common for fast food restaurants to locate near military bases because of the foot traffic. It is also very common for military personal to work at these restaurants because of the flexible schedule they offer and the ever changing work shifts military people endure. For a man in his 30’s to be in the military and work at McDonalds near the military base is not uncommon.
Side observation: Back when I was in college in the early 70s, the "young rebel fashion statement" was the olive drab military field jacket. All young American men were wearing them (replacing the leather biker jacket of the 50s).

That's because Vietnam was the shared experience of the young men of that generation. A huge percentage of us had been to Vietnam. Almost all of us had held a draft card, so Vietnam had been a sword hanging over our heads whether we'd been there or not. It was a social issue that touched every single young man of the latter sixties. The olive drab Army field jacket was the symbol of that issue. You saw it everywhere, especially on urban streets where young black men had been drafted in much higher proportion than young white men.

Today, the "young rebel fashion statement" is the baggy, drooping trousers. I thought about that for a moment, and realized that for urban black youth today, prison is the "shared experience of the young men of that generation."

Like Vietnam, a huge percentage have been there--primarily because of the "war on drugs"--and a run-in with police that can easily end in incarceration hangs like a sword over every urban youth's head like Vietnam hung over mine. So...the baggy, saggy trousers today are like the Army field jacket of my day.
I think it is a bit different. I will bet most of the people of the Vietnam area who wore those jackets knew where they originated from. Most of the youth who wear the baggy pants are unaware of where that style originated from
Sometimes I think about my life, which was never luxurious, but I'd still call it blessed. I never had to walk around criminals to get to school. I was never faced with a "join the gang or be killed" decision. I was never faced with a "skip school or be killed" situation.
I realize the environment you are born in can make it very difficult to successfully follow the 5 rules I mentioned
In my day, education was still prized: The "intellectual" had an acknowledged role in the Revolution. Everyone in my world as a child and young man was fully engaged in supporting education. Even the bum on the street would have railed, "Why aren't you kids in school?" and would seriously inquire "Young man, what are you going to be when you grow up?"

And when I think about it, that was a question any and all adults had for us: "What are you going to be when you grow up?" We were asked that question constantly by adults everywhere.
I think education is prized even today, it all depends upon the environment you are in. I look at many TV shows and often the nerd or smart guy is glamorized more now than ever before
That's an interesting question because the questioner implied two things: A confidence that I would grow up--I would survive to adulthood--and a confidence that I was in charge of what I would become.

Do urban kids even get that kind of "subliminal encouragement" these days from all the adults around them?
Probably not. I have always believed the main culprit behind poverty is having children you cannot afford to have, because poverty often breeds poverty. When the parent has no education or career goals, they pass that attitude on to their children and the cycle continues.

Ken
 
Upvote 0

RDKirk

Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner
Site Supporter
Mar 3, 2013
39,293
20,294
US
✟1,477,691.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Actually he was still in the military. It is very common for fast food restaurants to locate near military bases because of the foot traffic. It is also very common for military personal to work at these restaurants because of the flexible schedule they offer and the ever changing work shifts military people endure. For a man in his 30’s to be in the military and work at McDonalds near the military base is not uncommon.

Note that I mentioned I worked at Dominos when I was in the military in my thirties. I also did security guard work. In my last five years, I worked part-time in IT networking...lining myself up for civilian work.

I think it is a bit different. I will bet most of the people of the Vietnam area who wore those jackets knew where they originated from. Most of the youth who wear the baggy pants are unaware of where that style originated from
I know a lot of churches and other organizations are trying to spread that word to those who don't know. But those who have been there know...I don't think there is really that much ignorance about it, and it doesn't make a difference to many of those who are told.

I think education is prized even today, it all depends upon the environment you are in. I look at many TV shows and often the nerd or smart guy is glamorized more now than ever before
It's not prized where they are. When I was a kid, some of the major revolutionary figures--like Angela Davis--were college professors who had street cred like big dogs.

Probably not. I have always believed the main culprit behind poverty is having children you cannot afford to have, because poverty often breeds poverty. When the parent has no education or career goals, they pass that attitude on to their children and the cycle continues.
The real question is: Why have children you can't afford? I haven't really seen any research on that question.

What I have seen indicates that the concepts of "what you can afford" are not clear, nor are concepts of "what I can achieve otherwise" not clear...

...and the ground truth may not be what I think it is.

As I've said, that's not a world I was raised in. But I have learned from being on the other side of the planet more than once that how I see someone else's world is not how they see it.

I recall back in the late 80s when I was in Washington DC having a conversation with a young black woman who had an entry-level government job. She was talking about plans she had to get pregnant with her boyfriend.

I asked her why they were not getting married first. Her answer was basically that she saw no relevance to marriage. She had a job herself (probably the best job of any of her acquaintances, although it wasn't that much from my perspective), she believed her boyfriend was responsible enough to "be there for his child," and that was the only thing important.

Well.

OTOH, there were plenty of well-to-do white women at the time publicly promoting that same attitude.
 
Upvote 0

Ken-1122

Newbie
Jan 30, 2011
13,574
1,790
✟225,690.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
I know a lot of churches and other organizations are trying to spread that word to those who don't know. But those who have been there know...I don't think there is really that much ignorance about it, and it doesn't make a difference to many of those who are told.
Nobody really knew much about it until the hip-hop artists began promoting it in the early 1990’s. Many youths started (and continue) doing it because they think it’s cool. Those promoting it were not associating it with prison, thus many youths don’t know unlike your Vietnam style experience.
It's not prized where they are. When I was a kid, some of the major revolutionary figures--like Angela Davis--were college professors who had street cred like big dogs.
Today we have people like Al Shaprton and Cornell West.
The real question is: Why have children you can't afford? I haven't really seen any research on that question.
I think it goes with the culture of the “Mac Daddy” who get’s all the ladies. When you get all the girls; sex become a part of that which often leads to pregnancies; and too many girls act as if their only option once pregnant is to have the child. It’s as if abortion or putting the child up for adoption doesn’t even cross their minds.
What I have seen indicates that the concepts of "what you can afford" are not clear, nor are concepts of "what I can achieve otherwise" not clear...

...and the ground truth may not be what I think it is.
When your parents have children out of wedlock and get on welfare, it becomes normalized for you to do it, and the cycle continues. Most probably don’t even think of if they can afford the child, they see welfare as standard procedure for such occastions.

Ken
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

childofGod1

Regular Member
Aug 21, 2010
2,036
319
✟18,710.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
I believe you are mistakenly attributing "rights and freedoms" for "normal and moral" Nobody on the left "likes" abortion but what they say is it is a women's right to do with her body as she deems necessary.

I believe you are mistakenly attributing "rights and freedoms" for "normal and moral" Nobody on the right "likes" huge inequalities but what they say is it is a person's right to do with his or her money as he or she deems necessary.
 
Upvote 0