Honest questions for Christians

[Winken]

I am not a Christian any longer. I have walked away from my Christian faith and I now walk a different spiritual path.

Good News! God hasn't walked away from you!

 

[benedictaoo]

Walking the walk is certainly one way to bring people to Christ; after all, we are to let our light shine before others so that people glorify God. But we are also called to go, and make disciples of all nations, so never evangelizing, never talking about it, isn't the way to go.

Yeah but there is a time and place. This isn't Antioch first century, this is a political correct imoral death trap we're navigating. I think being fed to the lions was in some easier than this age, its an apostate nightmare and we have to be carful because everybody is offended and you're a fobic if you disagree.

I think going to third world countries and really building their community, giving heath care and feeding the poor is the way to evangelize and not in return for hearing the word but just doing it because that's what decent people do.

Preach the gospel at all time, use words when necessary.

 

[benedictaoo]

You're asking what approach I would use for a class of people. I've never evangelized anyone like that. I talk with a person. Also, NO ONE lives out what they proclaim. Only Jesus Christ did/does that. For me, if I cannot live out my beliefs that is all the more reason to believe in the One who IS righteous. My failures proclaim the Truth.

Good post.

 

[Red Fox]

Good News! God hasn't walked away from you!

I'm well aware that the Great Spirit hasn't walked away from me, but I do see the Creator much differently now.

 

[benedictaoo]

Actually, I know quite a few Christians who live out their faith, my husband is one of them. And if it weren't for these particular Christians being in my life and showing me by their example that not all Christians are like the foul ones (for the lack of a better term) I have encountered in the past, I would never consider Christianity ever again. In fact, I would probably despise Christianity with a passion, but because of these particular Christians, as I said my husband being one, I can't and don't hate the religion.

in our defense though you can't rule us out, all belief systems have foul members. What poor begger was meaning is that we're all imperfect but Jesus is perfect and its Jesus example we follow, not each others. Lord if we were to follow each other, we would be a hot dang mess. But I get your point that to whom much is given, much is expected. We do have a higher standard and we should do better to meet it and we can't use the imperfection as an excuse.

 

[Job8]

Not sure why this is in a Catholic section, since it is addressed to all Christians

If I were a Muslim, how would you draw me to Christ?

"The Koran mentions Jesus in passing. Have you read the Gospels to know the Jesus of the Bible? If not, you owe it to yourself, and there are Bibles in Arabic".

What would you say to me that could convince me enough to convert to your faith?

"Converting someone to "a faith" is an exercise in futility. You must consider the Lord Jesus Christ alone. Who He is. What He has accomplished for you on the Cross and in His resurrection. What He offers you right now since He is alive and seated at the right hand of God the Father."

And if I were a Muslim and I read all of these verbal attacks against Islam, please tell me why I should ever consider converting to Christianity?

"If you want the honest truth, Islam declared war on Christians and Christianity back around 600 AD. More recently radical Jihadist Islam has declared war on Christians and the whole western world. Therefore it behooves those who know Islam's agenda to speak out. And thank God these are verbal attacks, and the West has not declared war on Islam as yet. Regardless, your personal salvation is a personal matter and you owe it to yourself to see that Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and the Life. You will stand before Him and give account as to whether you believed the Gospel or not. Each one gives account for himself, not for his religion, race, culture, or nationality."

 

[Sword of the Lord]

I'm well aware that the Great Spirit hasn't walked away from me, but I do see the Creator much differently now.

There are many spirits, and if it isn't the Christian one, it's a demon masked as an angel of light to destroy your soul.

 

[Red Fox]

FYI, I placed my thread here in the OBOB because this is the Christian sub-forum where I feel welcome and accepted, for the most part.

 

[Red Fox]

There are many spirits, and if it isn't the Christian one, it's a demon masked as an angel of light to destroy your soul.

There is one Creator of the Heavens and the Earth. He is the one I seek, the one I worship, and the one I pray to.

 

[benedictaoo]

I'm well aware that the Great Spirit hasn't walked away from me, but I do see the Creator much differently now.

Well, as AA says, pray to the God of your understanding. You know that's faith and that gift certainly hasn't come from any of us but the Great Spirit Himself. We can build on that but we can not give it. You have been touched by the Creator and that is what Catholics belive, that He judges us all by the light He gives to each of us. Only God alone can judge, not any of us. The Catholic Church we belive is the ordinary means we can find salvation and though its the obvious way in which we can be saved, we also belive God is not limited to His Church. God is mysterious and He looks for ways to save us all. He does not look for who He can condem. He came to save. He can do it in ways only known to Him.

 

[Sword of the Lord]

There is one Creator of the Heavens and the Earth. He is the one I seek, the one I worship, and the one I pray to.

I agree. And he's 3 in 1.

 

[benedictaoo]

There is one Creator of the Heavens and the Earth. He is the one I seek, the one I worship, and the one I pray to.

And I am sure this is who we call God. Admittedly I know zero about the Native Americans belive but I'm sure we believe in the same God. We just understand who He is differently. Of course I believe Him to be the Holy Trinity but that doesn't mean the God you belive in is not Him also. And how I would talk to a Muslim is in the same way if they were open like you.

 

[Red Fox]

Well, as AA says, pray to the God of your understanding. You know that's faith and that gift certainly hasn't come from any of us but the Great Spirit Himself. We can build on that but we can not give it. You have been touched by the Creator and that is what Catholics belive, that He judges us all by the light He gives to each of us. Only God alone can judge, not any of us. The Catholic Church we belive is the ordinary means we can find salvation and though its the obvious way in which we can be saved, we also belive God is not limited to His Church. God is mysterious and He looks for ways to save us all. He does not look for who He can condem. He came to save. He can do it in ways only known to Him.

I no longer believe that God, as I know Him now as the Great Spirit, is limited to Christianity nor does He limit His great power to it. I don't believe He is confined within the walls of the Christian church either. I think His infinite power is too great for that. I don't think He can be put into a theological box and have His power limited by those who believe in Him. I don't think He's limited by His creation. I'm not sure if this scripture applies or not, but Jesus said that He had other sheep who would hear His voice.

 

[Sword of the Lord]

I no longer believe that God, as I know Him now as the Great Spirit, is limited to Christianity nor does He limit His great power to it. I don't believe He is confined within the walls of the Christian church either. I think His infinite power is too great for that. I don't think He can be put into a theological box and have His power limited by those who believe in Him. I'm not quite sure if this particular scripture applies or not, but Jesus said that He had other sheep who would hear His voice.

Gentiles instead of Jews. Not in a pagan way.

 

[pdudgeon]

If I were a Muslim, how would you draw me to Christ?

What would you say to me that could convince me enough to convert to your faith?

And if I were a Muslim and I read all of these verbal attacks against Islam, please tell me why I should ever consider converting to Christianity?

While I'm not a Muslim, I am a non-Christian now. So, what could you say to me that would make me consider returning to the Christian faith?

I spent many years in the church, so I'm fairly familiar with scripture. I'm familiar with the teaching of Christians being commanded to love their enemies, pray for their enemies, do good to their enemies, treat others as they want to be treated, turn the other cheek, go the extra mile, and be a witness for Jesus and fulfill the Great Commission, among many other teachings of Jesus. I also know Jesus made it perfectly clear that the world would know His followers by their love for each other.

A person can say they are Christian all they want, even until they are blue in the face, but... if they are not living what they profess and their profession of faith is not evident in their own words and actions, then their repeated proclamations of being Christian are not worth listening to. IOW, if a Christian wants to draw a person to Jesus Christ, then they must first live out their faith, otherwise they could possibly push someone further away from Him and even quite possibly cause them to miss salvation.

as for the muslims i witness to them every day---but I do so silently with a cross on my door.
I'm no fool.
Witnessing directly these days could get me kicked out of my abode quicker than a rabbit can hop.
when i see them i smile and wave to them. sometimes they wave back.

now let me correct one mistaken supposition in your post. Believing is an individual choice.

No single person is responsible for anyone else turning away from God.
that person makes the choice to turn away under their own power,
and also makes the choice to return one step at a time under their own power.

everything that could ever convince a person to return has already been said in the Bible in John 3:16.
we are only responsible for providing an open door and a warm welcome home when they come back.

 

[Red Fox]

And I am sure this is who we call God. Admittedly I know zero about the Native Americans belive but I'm sure we believe in the same God. We just understand who He is differently. Of course I believe Him to be the Holy Trinity but that doesn't mean the God you belive in is not Him also. And how I would talk to a Muslim is in the same way if they were open like you.

I don't know what to believe about God being three gods in one, because I was forced to accept Christianity and its teaching as a child. I don't know if what I was taught as a child and what I have believed all these years about God is true or not. Admittedly, it is very confusing for me and it has caused me great anxiety some times.

 

[RDKirk]

If I were a Muslim, how would you draw me to Christ?

What would you say to me that could convince me enough to convert to your faith?

A good friend of mine spent 12 years in a certain Muslim country, ostensibly as a building contractor but really a missionary at heart. He was fairly successful, given the situation, baptizing an average of two households a year.

Basically, he merely operated as a Christian, being open, friendly, honest beyond measure in all his dealings. Every so often a Muslim man would approach him and say, "I want to learn more about Jesus."

My friend's method was simply to meet and read scripture. First the Gospels, then Acts, then Romans. He never expounded Christian doctrine, just answered questions that were asked about what they read. At the end of Romans, he would ask, "What do you think of all this?"

This would, of course, take weeks or months. But he reports that every Muslim who kept coming back for visit after visit until finishing Romans would respond to his question with, "I believe this. I want to be baptized."

He recognizes, of course, what is actually happening:

"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them." -- John 6:44

He went on to say, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them." -- John 6:65

"My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me." -- John 10:27

Nobody comes to Jesus except as he is drawn by the Holy Spirit to Jesus, and the person who is drawn only needs to hear the voice of Jesus. When a person is being drawn to Jesus, the most critical thing for the evangelist and the rest of the Church is to not screw it up by speaking in their own voice instead of that of Jesus. But in the West in general and America in particular, Christians tend to be the enemy's best weapon against Christ.

 

[Red Fox]

now let me correct one mistaken supposition in your post. Believing is an individual choice.

I'm sorry, I don't believe that. I didn't have a choice as a child. I was forced into believing.

No single person is responsible for anyone else turning away from God.

I know there is scripture warnings for parents / adults not to be the cause of little children stumbling or to be a stumbling block for weaker Christians.

that person makes the choice to turn away under their own power,
and also makes the choice to return one step at a time under their own power.

As an adult, this is true. I did make the choice to walk away, because of how I was treated by many Christians over the years.

everything that could ever convince a person to return has already been said in the Bible in John 3:16.

I have to respectfully disagree.

we are only responsible for providing an open door and a warm welcome home when they come back.

Again, I have to respectfully disagree, because of the scriptures warning Christians not to be a stumbling block for weaker Christians or the cause of a child stumbling.

 

[benedictaoo]

I no longer believe that God, as I know Him now as the Great Spirit, is limited to Christianity nor does He limit His great power to it. I don't believe He is confined within the walls of the Christian church either. I think His infinite power is too great for that. I don't think He can be put into a theological box and have His power limited by those who believe in Him. I don't think He's limited by His creation. I'm not sure if this scripture applies or not, but Jesus said that He had other sheep who would hear His voice.

Yep. And FWIW this is the light in which you have received. Now my faith says this light, if you follow it to where it takes you, it will lead to Christ because He is the way the truth and the life. We belive Jesus is God and we understand God can save in ways only known to Him but we do believe most certainly that anyone who is saved, was saved by the merits Jesus won for us on the cross. IOW, God can apply those merits in anyway He chooses because Christ died for all. This of course in no way means that a person who knows this truth can just opt out and be good. We just can not say who knows and willfully rejects it and those who reject because they truly don't know. Just because you've been told, does not mean you know. But in any event its just not my job to judge what you know or don't know. Its my job to pray and that I can do.

 

[pdudgeon]

I did spend a lot of time evaluating myself and what spiritual journey I knew I needed to take. It wasn't an easy decision for me to leave my Christian faith. I have always been observant of how other people live out their personal religious beliefs. Spirituality has always intrigued me. And how I have been treated in the past has had a huge impact on my life and how I view the world around me. It has been no different concerning the spiritual aspects of life for me either. So, will you answer my questions?

i fear that you have confused the created with the Creator.

looking around at other people and evaluating them will only do one of two things;
it will either raise your self esteem or it will crush it.

The reason for that is because there will always be people who are either better or worse than you are,
either at doing something or at being something.
The smart man follows God to the best of his ability, and what does what He asks.

That man has help along the way because Jesus, his brother, is always beside him showing the way, taking part of the load,
imparting wisdom, and watching out for difficulties.

Your way is unique to you, and no one knows that better than God who created you.
In the same way that a toy manufacturer writes directions for the use of the toy,
so God has written His directions for us as well.
And just like that toy, we function best when following those directions.