honest question

[dogs4thewin]

How does word of faith deal with the fact that sometimes people die of certain conditions? In other words, we all know that people pass away of various medical conditions, yet word of Faith claims that God wishes to heal ALL believers from medical pain ECT.

 

[Stillicidia]

Got plenty to convey

People may be a bit away at times from faith. There is also a path God would have you on, if you were strayed, or if you meet your destination.

There would be a lot of conditions that need to be meet in order to actually successfully do this thing.

1 I would say, be lead, have willingness enough day by day, and consider God in all your ways, and he will direct your path. So, if your path isn't dying, you will be lead away from that, so long as you walk that path.

2 Ask, and pray once. Have actual faith, not phony faith.

I don't want to underestimate people being far from perfect faith.

There is also a means of not being sick, goes along the scripture, prosper and be in health, even as your soul prospers. Don't have junk in your soul, have it whole, and with no evil. Then you will have no bad thoughts, besides wicked spirit impartations which are shielded away by faith. This is caused by praying all evil be removed from your soul, which goes along the scripture, what you loose on earth is loosed in Heaven.

God wills all people be in health and prosper, but people don't know that it's because of the soul, know the means for that health.

Then, after all this, your prayer for health through perfect faith, is yet a petition.

 

[Dave-W]

How does word of faith deal with the fact that sometimes people die of certain conditions? In other words, we all know that people pass away of various medical conditions, yet word of Faith claims that God wishes to heal ALL believers from medical pain ECT.

Having been in a WOF congregation for over a decade, I can tell you that they blame the person for not having enough faith. Or they made a bad confession. Or they have some secret sin in their life that allows the devil to have reign over them.

 

[dogs4thewin]

Having been in a WOF congregation for over a decade, I can tell you that they blame the person for not having enough faith. Or they made a bad confession. Or they have some secret sin in their life that allows the devil to have reign over them.

but the fact is that mortality is a fact of life and people are not always healed.

 

[Stillicidia]

but the fact is that mortality is a fact of life and people are not always healed.

The issue of morality is 100% healed in what I said about the soul.

 

[Dave-W]

but the fact is that mortality is a fact of life and people are not always healed.

And that God Himself said "Precious in the sight of the Lord Is the death of His saints." (Ps 116.15)

But they steadfastly refuse to believe that God has anything but life (most say at least 120 years) for His people. Anything short of that is a loss for God and a win for the devil.

 

[Dave-W]

The issue of morality is 100% healed in what I said about the soul.

So then you disagree with this scripture:

Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment,

We all have a moed - an appointed time - to die.

 

[Stillicidia]

So then you disagree with this scripture:

Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment,

We all have a moed - an appointed time - to die.

Two different subjects.

You're talking about an appointed death.

I'm talking about health from the soul.

 

[Dave-W]

Two different subjects.
You're talking about an appointed death.
I'm talking about health from the soul.

Not in the congregation I was in. They denied any such "appointed death" because "God is the God of the living."

As the pastor said "I did not come to this congregation to preach funerals - EVER." And then proceeded to blast the congregation for their lack of faith. Not just the elderly lady who died of cancer but the entire congregation for letting her die.

And then they started in deriding Kenneth Copeland when he said that cancer might be in God's timing. (for death)

 

[Stillicidia]

Not in the congregation I was in. They denied any such "appointed death" because "God is the God of the living."

As the pastor said "I did not come to this congregation to preach funerals - EVER." And then proceeded to blast the congregation for their lack of faith. Not just the elderly lady who died of cancer but the entire congregation for letting her die.

And then they started in deriding Kenneth Copeland when he said that cancer might be in God's timing. (for death)

That's an interesting preacher. Keeping that excitement up and discussion is always nice. No Christian should bash though, and that was that preacher's mistake. Gots to be very loving even when conveying important and heavy things.

Him, being against the lack of faith, however, is not him being against an appointed time.

Indeed, should one pass, why are you saddened, where is the partying now that they've gone up to Heaven?

I would destroy the smoke and mirrors though, I would that my small thing on the mystery of the soul not be written in vain.

 

[hhodgson]

How does word of faith deal with the fact that sometimes people die of certain conditions? In other words, we all know that people pass away of various medical conditions, yet word of Faith claims that God wishes to heal ALL believers from medical pain ECT.

I don't know exactly who claims this in Word/Faith... but we claim this "in the Word." But as far as "Word/Faith" (believing in this truth)... is not limited to only Word/Faith. There are possibly millions of believers all over the world (within) ALL faiths that embraces this also. Word/Faith from it's beginnings has most definitely (helped) carried the torch that led the way by the founding fathers of the movement to embrace and teach this truth.

God (absolutely) desires ALL believers/unbelievers (the entire planet) to receive salvation, healing, and deliverance for the whole spirit, soul and body (sozo). He desired it so much that He offered the precious blood of His only begotten son as the sacrificial lamb as (complete payment) for the sin debt that WE owed but couldn't pay.

Yes, even (faith talking) Christians do pass on prematurely but it's not from failure of God's Word for, "nothing is impossible for those who... believe!"

Mark 9:22-23
And often it has cast him into the fire, and into the waters, to destroy him: but if you can do anything, have compassion on us, and help us. (What did Jesus say to him?) "What do you mean, 'If I can'?" Anything is possible for those who believes."​

Lets back up a bit to...

(v17) A man in the crowd answered, "Teacher, I brought You my son, who is possessed by a spirit that has robbed him of speech.
(v18) Whenever it seizes him, it throws him to the ground. He foams at the mouth, gnashes his teeth and becomes rigid. I asked your disciples to drive out the spirit, but they could not."

(What then did Jesus say?)

(v19) Jesus answers him, and said, O faithless generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him to me. (Notice this was meant for His disciples also).
(v20) So they brought him, and seeing Jesus, the spirit immediately threw the boy into a convulsion. He fell to the ground and rolled around, foaming at the mouth.
(v21) Jesus asked the boy's father, "How long has this been with him?" "From childhood," he said.

(review v22 and v23 above)

(v24) Immediately the boy's father exclaimed, "I do believe; help me overcome my unbelief!"
(v25) When Jesus saw that the people came running together, he rebuked the foul spirit, saying to him, You dumb and deaf spirit, I charge you, come out of him, and enter no more into him.​

So, the end result was this boy was "healed, and delivered." (the word sozo again). I hope this answers your questions. The disciples couldn't do it (they didn't believe), So Jesus did... and today, the body of Christ can and are doing it. (the ones that believe).

Be Blessed...

​

 

[now faith]

I don't know exactly who claims this in Word/Faith... but we claim this "in the Word." But as far as "Word/Faith" (believing in this truth)... is not limited to only Word/Faith. There are possibly millions of believers all over the world (within) ALL faiths that embraces this also. Word/Faith from it's beginnings has most definitely (helped) carried the torch that led the way by the founding fathers of the movement to embrace and teach this truth.

God (absolutely) desires ALL believers/unbelievers (the entire planet) to receive salvation, healing, and deliverance for the whole spirit, soul and body (sozo). He desired it so much that He offered the precious blood of His only begotten son as the sacrificial lamb as (complete payment) for the sin debt that WE owed but couldn't pay.

Yes, even (faith talking) Christians do pass on prematurely but it's not from failure of God's Word for, "nothing is impossible for those who... believe!"

Mark 9:22-23
And often it has cast him into the fire, and into the waters, to destroy him: but if you can do anything, have compassion on us, and help us. (What did Jesus say to him?) "What do you mean, 'If I can'?" Anything is possible for those who believes."​

Lets back up a bit to...

(v17) A man in the crowd answered, "Teacher, I brought You my son, who is possessed by a spirit that has robbed him of speech.
(v18) Whenever it seizes him, it throws him to the ground. He foams at the mouth, gnashes his teeth and becomes rigid. I asked your disciples to drive out the spirit, but they could not."

(What then did Jesus say?)

(v19) Jesus answers him, and said, O faithless generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him to me. (Notice this was meant for His disciples also).
(v20) So they brought him, and seeing Jesus, the spirit immediately threw the boy into a convulsion. He fell to the ground and rolled around, foaming at the mouth.
(v21) Jesus asked the boy's father, "How long has this been with him?" "From childhood," he said.

(review v22 and v23 above)

(v24) Immediately the boy's father exclaimed, "I do believe; help me overcome my unbelief!"
(v25) When Jesus saw that the people came running together, he rebuked the foul spirit, saying to him, You dumb and deaf spirit, I charge you, come out of him, and enter no more into him.​

So, the end result was this boy was "healed, and delivered." (the word sozo again). I hope this answers your questions. The disciples couldn't do it (they didn't believe), So Jesus did... and today, the body of Christ can and are doing it. (the ones that believe).

Be Blessed...

​

This passage has always been a mystery to me.

Mark: 9. 28. And when he was come into the house, his disciples asked him privately, Why could not we cast him out? 29. And he said unto them, This kind can come forth by nothing,but by prayer and fasting.

I believe there was a hold up from the boys being healed.

 

[now faith]

Well it is odd that a question is asked about Word of Faith,and we get more reply from non Word of Faith.
Some of the reply seem to convey we teach smoke and mirrors , or be it God gave us a lifespan of 120 years they transpose that to mean God did not intend that or all because every man has a time to die a appointed time.
So therefore if God takes a man before 120 that makes God a respecter of persons.

Deuteronomy: 30. 17. But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them; 18. I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it. 19. I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

Proverbs: 18. 21. Death and life are in the power of the tongue: and they that love it shall eat the fruit thereof.

James: 3. 5. Even so the tongue is a little member, and boasteth great things. Behold, how great a matter a little fire kindleth! 6. And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell. 7. For every kind of beasts, and of birds, and of serpents, and of things in the sea, is tamed, and hath been tamed of mankind: 8. But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.
John: 10. 10. The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

I post the Word because that is all that matters.
People say well your faith did not save the good Christian who died anyway.
In the few verses I have posted notice 2 things.
1 they give you a choice
2 Christ came to give life not take it.
I don't know why the good Christian died,but God does.
All I know is in the Word of God,as well our enemy has come to steal kill and destroy.
Do people give up? yes they do.
A Baptist Preacher and I prayed with a tired elderly woman she wanted to see Jesus.
We did not pray for her death,but we prayed her prayers would be answered she had a long battle with cancer and was going back for another surgery.
I know if she believed in her healing we would have laid hands on her and she would be with us today.
She passed the next day.
She could only see the cancer she could not see the only cure.
Why do children die?
They are murdered by the God of this world.
Many innocent have died
And many have been healed.
So it's up to the individual or choose this day whomever they will put their whole trust in.
Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the Word of God.

 

[michael soh]

So then you disagree with this scripture:

Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment,

We all have a moed - an appointed time - to die.

Oh Dear, Jesus has already kept that appointment on our behalf. Why must we go to that appointment again. If we do, we are basically rejecting Jesus outright. How sad would our Heavenly Father to see that He send His only son (John 3:16) to die for us in vain.

Wake up, don't let the devil deceive us. We experience a special death in Col 2:20. The word dead in Gol 2:20 is the same Greek word "die" in Heb 9:27. We died when we are baptized in water. We fulfill Heb 9:27

 

[Dave-W]

Oh Dear, Jesus has already kept that appointment on our behalf.

If that is so - why was this written at least 3 decades AFTER our Lord's death?

 

[michael soh]

If that is so - why was this written at least 3 decades AFTER our Lord's death?

According to His timing. Not ours.

 

[Dave-W]

According to His timing. Not ours.

Having that appointment is a NEW COVENANT scriptural promise.

Claim it.

Psalm 116:15 Precious in the sight of the Lord Is the death of His godly ones.

 

[michael soh]

Having that appointment is a NEW COVENANT scriptural promise.

Claim it.

Psalm 116:15 Precious in the sight of the Lord Is the death of His godly ones.

That appointment is indeed a new covenant appointment but you need to see His will how He will deal with that appointment for us. He cant force you to send Him to take that appointment for you. You have to decide. He prayed that you be in this world (John 17:15, 20) and remain alive in this world to do His will, His field is plenty, but workers few.

It is indeed precious sight of the death of his godly ones. But also precious those who are "alive and remain" that He will come and receive them in 1The 4:17 (alive and remain)

Those who are precious envy us. They are did not receive the promise that we did. We alive and remain make those precious death complete (Heb 11:39-40)

Heb 11:39 And all these, though commended through their faith, did not receive what was promised,
Heb 11:40 since God had provided something better for us, that apart from us they should not be made perfect.

 

[michael soh]

Having that appointment is a NEW COVENANT scriptural promise.

Claim it.

Psalm 116:15 Precious in the sight of the Lord Is the death of His godly ones.

That appointment is indeed a new covenant appointment but you need to see His will how He will deal with that appointment for us. He cant force you to send Him to take that appointment for you. You have to decide. He prayed that you be in this world (John 17:15, 20) and remain alive in this world to do His will, His field is plenty, but workers few.

It is indeed precious sight of the death of his godly ones. But also precious those who are "alive and remain" that He will come and receive them in 1The 4:17 (alive and remain)

Those who are precious envy us. They are did not receive the promise that we did. We alive and remain make those precious death complete (Heb 11:39-40)

Heb 11:39 And all these, though commended through their faith, did not receive what was promised,
Heb 11:40 since God had provided something better for us, that apart from us they should not be made perfect.

 

[michael soh]