Honest question: what happens to the Beneplenists if/when Pope Benedict XVI dies?

[Gnarwhal]

I saw this question on Twitter and I think it's actually a really good question. Not to be crass or anything as the Pope Emeritus may be in his final hours, but for the contingent of Catholics who maintain that Benedict XVI is still truly the Pope, what happens when he dies? The loudest argument I've heard about why Benedict is still pope comes from Dr. Ed Mazza and revolves around the claim that when Benedict resigned he did not renounce the munus. So this allegedly means, according to Mazza, that Benedict essentially gave up the Chair of Peter but the sacramental supernatural office of the Papacy still rests on him.

That's his claim. And this thread isn't meant to argue the merits of it, but rather simply: for those that do believe Benedict is still pope, what's the next step after he passes? Does that then validate Francis' pontificate in their eyes or does Beneplenism naturally morph into sedevacantism?

I'm not sure if anyone on here holds to any of these positions, if there is I'd be curious to hear your thought process for the implications of Benedict's passing, whether it's in the next few days or another five years away.

 

[boughtwithaprice]

The answer to me is unknown. I can never presume to predict what anyone else will do. It would appear that they would have no choice but to morph into sedevacantism as they do not recognize Francis as legitimate Pope.
I pray that the Holy Spirit causes them much self reflection, fasting and prayer so that they would avoid schism and give glory to God.

 

[BAChristian]

As I've grown in my faith, I tend to believe Jesus is much like he is portrayed in the TV series, The Chosen. I doubt he really cares. I think we (including Protestants) are one day going to learn that a lot of things that are faiths do internally are silly and frivilous.

So if I believe he doesn't care, then I don't neither.

 

[chevyontheriver]

I saw this question on Twitter and I think it's actually a really good question. Not to be crass or anything as the Pope Emeritus may be in his final hours, but for the contingent of Catholics who maintain that Benedict XVI is still truly the Pope, what happens when he dies? The loudest argument I've heard about why Benedict is still pope comes from Dr. Ed Mazza and revolves around the claim that when Benedict resigned he did not renounce the munus. So this allegedly means, according to Mazza, that Benedict essentially gave up the Chair of Peter but the sacramental supernatural office of the Papacy still rests on him.

That's his claim. And this thread isn't meant to argue the merits of it, but rather simply: for those that do believe Benedict is still pope, what's the next step after he passes? Does that then validate Francis' pontificate in their eyes or does Beneplenism naturally morph into sedevacantism?

I'm not sure if anyone on here holds to any of these positions, if there is I'd be curious to hear your thought process for the implications of Benedict's passing, whether it's in the next few days or another five years away.

I think those sort of people become sedevacantists. Not that they would agree with all of the other types of sedevacantists. Ann Barnhardt just went sedevacantist this morning. Not a surprise.

 

[Gnarwhal]

I think those sort of people become sedevacantists. Not that they would agree with all of the other types of sedevacantists.

That's quite the milieu

 

[Michie]

That's quite the milieu

I’m not sure if you are aware @spicoli but I just ran across this and thought it may be of some interest to you.

In 2022, Steven O’Reilly published a refutation of “Benevacantist” or “Benepapist” theories and arguments in his book titled, Valid? The Resignation of Pope Benedict XVI (The Case against the Benepapists). Whereas Benepapists writers have authored c. 7-8 books for their cause to date, O’Reilly’s is the onlybook thus far published which provides a refutation of Benepapism in all its forms. It is a great honor to note that Bishop Athanasius Schneider wrote the foreword for the book. This work looks at the central documents in the controversy which are cited or ignored by the Benepapists, including the Declaratio, Normas Nonnullas, Benedict’s last audience, Benedict’s words to the pilgrims from Albano, and Ganswein’s speech. Other topics addressed include Benedict wearing white, the title of “pope emeritus”, the use of “his holiness”, apostolic blessings, the validity of deferred resignations, etc. This is O’Reilly’s second book, the first being Book I of the PIA FIDELIS trilogy. Book I, PIA FIDELIS: The Two Kingdoms, is set in the midst of the Arian heresy, and the rise of Julian the Apostate, a type of the AntiChrist. This story of adventure, romance, betrayal, and faith is available on Amazon, Barnes & Noble, and other bookstores. Book II should be out in the late 2023, or by early 2024.

Top Ten articles of 2022 on Roma Locuta Est

December 31, 2022 (Steven O’Reilly) – Roma Locuta Est is now approaching the end of its 6th year of existence (5th full year). As has been the tradition now over the last several years,…

romalocutaest.com

 

[Gnarwhal]

I’m not sure if you are aware @spicoli but I just ran across this and thought it may be of some interest to you.

In 2022, Steven O’Reilly published a refutation of “Benevacantist” or “Benepapist” theories and arguments in his book titled, Valid? The Resignation of Pope Benedict XVI (The Case against the Benepapists). Whereas Benepapists writers have authored c. 7-8 books for their cause to date, O’Reilly’s is the onlybook thus far published which provides a refutation of Benepapism in all its forms. It is a great honor to note that Bishop Athanasius Schneider wrote the foreword for the book. This work looks at the central documents in the controversy which are cited or ignored by the Benepapists, including the Declaratio, Normas Nonnullas, Benedict’s last audience, Benedict’s words to the pilgrims from Albano, and Ganswein’s speech. Other topics addressed include Benedict wearing white, the title of “pope emeritus”, the use of “his holiness”, apostolic blessings, the validity of deferred resignations, etc. This is O’Reilly’s second book, the first being Book I of the PIA FIDELIS trilogy. Book I, PIA FIDELIS: The Two Kingdoms, is set in the midst of the Arian heresy, and the rise of Julian the Apostate, a type of the AntiChrist. This story of adventure, romance, betrayal, and faith is available on Amazon, Barnes & Noble, and other bookstores. Book II should be out in the late 2023, or by early 2024.

Top Ten articles of 2022 on Roma Locuta Est

December 31, 2022 (Steven O’Reilly) – Roma Locuta Est is now approaching the end of its 6th year of existence (5th full year). As has been the tradition now over the last several years,…

romalocutaest.com

This is great! Thanks for sharing @Michie. I'm glad to see a refutation because honestly I thought Mazza's argument was flimsy at best, the whole thing hinged on what seemed like a tenuous grasp of what the "munus" even is. I'll want to look into O'Reilly's work more but it sounds very good.

 

[Michie]

This is great! Thanks for sharing @Michie. I'm glad to see a refutation because honestly I thought Mazza's argument was flimsy at best, the whole thing hinged on what seemed like a tenuous grasp of what the "munus" even is. I'll want to look into O'Reilly's work more but it sounds very good.

Your welcome! It looks like an informative read.

 

[chevyontheriver]

That's quite the milieu

Francis is pope, for better or worse. It doesn't help much that people, many of them good people, engage in flights of fancy to say there is no pope. Better to own the problem as it is.

I will say that I suspect pope emeritus Benedict did act like a restrainer in some measure on pope Francis. Maybe if pope Francis thinks Benedict is still watching him from heaven he will continue to be restrained. I hope so. I'm not speaking of the restrainer of 2 Thes 2: 7 and 8 here, but a more general thing, a gentle old man saying to pope Francis 'You know, you should not do that'.

 

[Gnarwhal]

I will say that I suspect pope emeritus Benedict did act like a restrainer in some measure on pope Francis. Maybe if pope Francis thinks Benedict is still watching him from heaven he will continue to be restrained. I hope so. I'm not speaking of the restrainer of 2 Thes 2: 7 and 8 here, but a more general thing, a gentle old man saying to pope Francis 'You know, you should not do that'.

I actually just tweeted that Benedict's passing leaves me with the same sinking feeling as in the movies when, say, Baldwin IV of Jerusalem died and his evil brother-in-law Guy de Lusignon took the throne in Kingdom of Heaven, or in Robin Hood when Richard I was killed in France and John became King of England, or in Exodus when Seti I died and Ramesses II became Pharoah. In all these cases the new kings were harbingers of doom for their subjects and the passing of their predecessors marked the end of restraint that held their selfish corrupt ambitions in check.