Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act... or, the suppress dissent bill.

[Wyzaard]

HR 1955 passed the US house of representatives 404-6, despite it being a possible gateway to open war on protest and dissenting opinion.

Some notable sections:

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“SEC. 899A (2) VIOLENT RADICALIZATION- The term `violent radicalization' means the process of adopting or promoting an extremist belief system for the purpose of facilitating ideologically based violence to advance political, religious, or social change.”

What is an extremist belief system? term is left undefined and open to many interpretations, socialism, anarchism, communism, nationalism, liberalism, etc. that would serve to undermine expressions that don’t fit within the allowable areas of debate. A direct action led by any group that blocks traffic can be looked upon as being coercive.

“SEC. 899B. (3) The Internet has aided in facilitating violent radicalization, ideologically based violence, and the homegrown terrorism process in the United States by providing access to broad and constant streams of terrorist-related propaganda to United States citizens.”

The focus on the internet is crucial, it can set up far more intrusive surveillance techniques, without warrants, and the potential to criminalize ideas and not actions can mean penalties for your stance rather than any criminal act.

“SEC. 899A. (4) IDEOLOGICALLY BASED VIOLENCE- The term `ideologically-based violence' means the use, planned use, or threatened use of force or violence by a group or individual to promote the group or individual's political, religious, or social beliefs.”

What is force, is civil disobedience covered under that, if arrested at a protest rally and charged with disorderly conduct, obstructing governmental administration, or even assault does that now open you up to possible terrorist charges in the future?

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From http://ccrjustice.org/learn-more/fa...n-and-homegrown-terrorism-prevention-act-2007

More:

http://www.democracynow.org/2007/11/20/homegrown_terrorism_prevention_act_raises_fears
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/philip-giraldi/the-violent-radicalizatio_b_74091.html
http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?ItemID=14427
http://thomas.loc.gov/home/gpoxmlc110/h1955_rfs.xml

 

[silentreader]

HR 1955 passed the US house of representatives 404-6, despite it being a possible gateway to open war on protest and dissenting opinion.

Some notable sections:

---

“SEC. 899A (2) VIOLENT RADICALIZATION- The term `violent radicalization' means the process of adopting or promoting an extremist belief system for the purpose of facilitating ideologically based violence to advance political, religious, or social change.”

What is an extremist belief system? term is left undefined and open to many interpretations, socialism, anarchism, communism, nationalism, liberalism, etc. that would serve to undermine expressions that don’t fit within the allowable areas of debate. A direct action led by any group that blocks traffic can be looked upon as being coercive.

no it can't, it says violent. traffic stoppages have been done for centuries...

 

[Wyzaard]

no it can't, it says violent. traffic stoppages have been done for centuries...

And this act could allow for such civil disobedience to be suppressed, with a little bending of the words 'violent' and 'radical'.

 

[Thirst_For_Knowledge]

And this act could allow for such civil disobedience to be suppressed, with a little bending of the words 'violent' and 'radical'.

That's the same weird logic Republicans use against hate crime laws "with a little bending, interpretation, and, well... changing the actual wording, we could be supressed!"

It's not a rational argument. The bill says what it says.

 

[Wyzaard]

That's the same weird logic Republicans use against hate crime laws "with a little bending, interpretation, and, well... changing the actual wording, we could be supressed!"

This is a tad more specific, and comes on the coat-tails of the misuse of the Patriot act.

 

[Billnew]

Violence could be a small riot(unintentional to the organization) or a fist fight between 2 opposng sides.
or all out war against the US.
Both are violence, but one is extreme emotions versus
trying to overthrow the goverment.


As long as the bill has limits, I have no problem with it.

 

[silentreader]

And this act could allow for such civil disobedience to be suppressed, with a little bending of the words 'violent' and 'radical'.

actually it would have to bend both not just one. not sure how you can bend violent since there are laws on the books defining what is violence.

 

[nightflight]

Laws are written broadly enough to where even jay-walking can be twisted into terrorism or a "hate crime".

Government's main purpose is to make criminals out of people.

 

[Wyzaard]

actually it would have to bend both not just one. not sure how you can bend violent since there are laws on the books defining what is violence.

This:

"The term `violent radicalization' means the process of adopting or promoting an extremist belief system for the purpose of facilitating ideologically based violence to advance political, religious, or social change"

Doesn't refer to the act of committing violence, but the promotion of IDEAS that have presumably violent intent.

 

[Voegelin]

Next thing you know, Congress will pass some IRS rule which makes single moms trying to support their kids pay 15.3% FICA and income taxes on tips earned waiting tables.

 

[burrow_owl]

The bill doesn't suppress anyone - it just sets up a think tank. Given that, I don't see any big deal. At best, it's a step in the right direction; government should be smarter in its engagement of terrorists.

 

[Wyzaard]

The bill doesn't suppress anyone - it just sets up a think tank.

Think-tanks have been at the forefront of anti-dissent efforts... recall COINTRELPRO?

Given that, I don't see any big deal. At best, it's a step in the right direction; government should be smarter in its engagement of terrorists.

But who are they really talking about, when the big fears of corporate interests revolve around grassroots resistance to global capitalism?

 

[ACougar]

“SEC. 899A (2) VIOLENT RADICALIZATION- The term `violent radicalization' means the process of adopting or promoting an extremist belief system for the purpose of facilitating ideologically based violence to advance political, religious, or social change.”

Now if I'm the pastor of a small church and last week I preached a sermon on how... let's say gays, and liberals were the cause of 9/11... and the following night two teenagers in attendence that Sunday beat down a drunk homosexual at the local club... could I be charged with prototing an extremist belief system for the purpose of facilitating ideologically based violence?

or...

I preach about the environmental damage caused by greed in our society and point out pollution caused by the chemical factory upsteam... the next weekend the factory is sabotoged and the chem factory hears I incited hate against them in my sermon...

I think it's safe to assume this bill is dangerous to anyone with strong opinions, terrorist, pacifict, conservative or liberal.

 

[burrow_owl]

Now if I'm the pastor of a small church and last week I preached a sermon on how... let's say gays, and liberals were the cause of 9/11... and the following night two teenagers in attendence that Sunday beat down a drunk homosexual at the local club... could I be charged with prototing an extremist belief system for the purpose of facilitating ideologically based violence?

Nope. Worst thing that happens is that your church ends up in a footnote about how rightwing terrorism is flourishing in some churches.

Think-tanks have been at the forefront of anti-dissent efforts... recall COINTRELPRO?

The problem with cointelpro wasn't the think tank engagement; it was the surveillance. There's nothing in the bill OK'ing surveillance, and there are directives to protect first amendment rights from speech being chilled.

 

[ElizabethVu]

I expect the government to crackdown on the people who would resist them when they get to authoritarian in the coming years with provisions likes these, and the the Carnivore system, domestic spying, and powers taken from the patriot acts, ect.