DavinMochrie
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I like that phrase. It describes a vast amount of people in the world. Not just in church circles.
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Hillsong Church, Gloria Jeans - linked to abuse claims.
- Thread starter tigercub
- Start date
I like that phrase. It describes a vast amount of people in the world. Not just in church circles.
There is nothing wrong with becoming wealthy as such. it depends on what is done with that money that matters. To use a secular example Telstra when they were the only phone providor spent alot of money in the bush to upgrade facilities. Once competition came in they have fought against that because the other companies don't need to provide services to the rural areas which are not economically worth it. So despite telstra having made big profits before privatisation alot of that money went into upgrading country services. If it didn't you would still have an operator required to connect your call in lots of areas. I have no problem with a big profit as long as it is then spent wisely.
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John Spong is wrong
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I reckon we should send a message to Al-Qaida in Afghanistan: "if you must attack Australia please aim here [with a detailed map of Sydney pointing out the location of Hillsong].
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Well, they'd probably appreciate the chance to re-build and re-decorate all over again
Nah, I reckon get them to aim for ANZ (aka Testra) stadium (when no one is inside, of course)
Nah, I reckon get them to aim for ANZ (aka Testra) stadium (when no one is inside, of course)
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John Spong is wrong
Regular Member
Yeah, and a map pointing out the location of all the head offices of the Big Bad 4 major banks. Hmm..........the possibilities are endless: the location of the residences of: Julie Bishop, John Howard and Alexander Downer (still worth taking out even in retirement), Kyle Sandilands, Stephanie Rice (for being a poser and threatening to corrupt my friend's 14 y.o. daughter) - okay maybe a spraying of fake anthrax may suffice with her, the entire cast of 'Sunrise', the morons (not the participants or the judges - those other drongos) who 'compere' Australian Idol, Eddie Maguire, the entire Collingwood football club, etc.
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I reckon we should send a message to Al-Qaida in Afghanistan: "if you must attack Australia please aim here [with a detailed map of Sydney pointing out the location of Hillsong].
Yeah, and a map pointing out the location of all the head offices of the Big Bad 4 major banks. Hmm..........the possibilities are endless: the location of the residences of: Julie Bishop, John Howard and Alexander Downer (still worth taking out even in retirement), Kyle Sandilands, Stephanie Rice (for being a poser and threatening to corrupt my friend's 14 y.o. daughter) - okay maybe a spraying of fake anthrax may suffice with her, the entire cast of 'Sunrise', the morons (not the participants or the judges - those other drongos) who 'compere' Australian Idol, Eddie Maguire, the entire Collingwood football club, etc.
Wow, some pretty strong thoughts coming from you there John Spong is wrong.
Mat 5:21 - 22 you have heard that it was said to the ancients, "You shall not kill" --and, "Whoever shall kill shall be liable to the judgment."
But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be liable to the judgment.
All transgressions will be judged. How do you think you will go when God asks you to explain your hatred to these people, who you have thoughts about killing? Instead of showing this hatred to these people, and this particular church, why not go and witness to these people you want dead, go and speak with the Pastors of Hillsong and tell them what they are doing wrong and maybe read through your Bible and read a few verses on showing compassion to others, trying to save the lost, and possibly even seeking some professional help in getting over your obvious problems you have with anger!
Rev 21:7 - 8 He who overcomes will inherit all things, and I will be his God, and he will be My son.
But the fearful, and the unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, will have their part in the Lake burning with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.
Jesus said that if you hate someone, you have already committed murder in your heart.
You clearly have a problem with Hillsong, as I have said previously, you voicing your opinions on that church is not helping the kingdom of God to grow. You have a problem with them, do something about it, Have some courage and speak with the Pastors yourself and voice your opinions to them.
If you wish to continue this discussion, you can PM me, or alternatively do as I suggested above!
Rhys.
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Sleak....we were all having a bit of fun. Kidding. Jokes. Lightening the mood of a thread.
(by the way, you forgot to quote me and use a bunch of out-of-context-Bible verses to criticise/judge me! I feel left out...
)
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Tiger, I didnt relate and of the relevant verses to you as you did not imply death to people! The verses are relevant as they take into account anger and hatred towards others and how God Himself sees that in our hearts as murder.
As for me judging you and john sprong is wrong, your right, I am. The fact that you both consistently attack a church, clearly shows that you have some hatred towards it, whether or not you are joking, it isnt helping the situation, and no one here enjoys our brothers or sisters attacking a place we call home, even if you dont agree with it.
Are we not meant to encourage and uplift each other? How is continuing to talk bad about a church / about having it blown up by terrorists going to uplift anyone?
As I have said before, I dont see a need for these kinds of things to be said, and if you have a problem with a church, take it up with the Pastors of that church, or start a relevant thread for it one that is specifically for talking bad about a church.
Thank you.
Rhys
As for me judging you and john sprong is wrong, your right, I am. The fact that you both consistently attack a church, clearly shows that you have some hatred towards it, whether or not you are joking, it isnt helping the situation, and no one here enjoys our brothers or sisters attacking a place we call home, even if you dont agree with it.
Are we not meant to encourage and uplift each other? How is continuing to talk bad about a church / about having it blown up by terrorists going to uplift anyone?
As I have said before, I dont see a need for these kinds of things to be said, and if you have a problem with a church, take it up with the Pastors of that church, or start a relevant thread for it one that is specifically for talking bad about a church.
Thank you.
Rhys
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I didn't say they were irrelevant, I said they were out-of-context. Sorry, it's a personal gripe of mine. No offence intended.
That's fair, but please be aware most of us use these threads to discuss various facets of the church. If we wanted to specifically 'talk bad' about it, there wouldn't be any discussion, just 'talking bad'. This particular topic is a little more specific, and was started off the back of a few news articles.
I am curious, how do you propose we take it up with the pastor of that church? From what I've seen/read, the Hillsong leaders don't exactly take kindly to criticism or questioning. Stuff like having their security personnel escorting detractors off the premises. Kind of makes it difficult for anyone to 'go straight o the source'
It becomes a very dangerous situation indeed when churches have absolutely no accountability.
As it is, they have virtually none outside their own walls.
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Hi TC
I can kinda understand where sleak is coming from. If you see someone do nothing but put down a part of God's church while giving the impression that they think their denomination is perfect then when jokes like this are made they do sound serious. As it was after alot of thought I decided to give John Spong the benefit of the doubt and assume he was joking. To illustrate using another situation. Imagine if I constantly was critical of my wife and everything she did. then imagine if I made a joke about how things would be better if she was dead. She would take take it seriously if there was never anything positive said.
Also I have spoken with Hillsong pastors about what I believed to be false teaching so it is possible. I have only heard of one person being escorted from premises by security and I fully support that move. There is an appropiate time and place and that was not the time or the place.
I can kinda understand where sleak is coming from. If you see someone do nothing but put down a part of God's church while giving the impression that they think their denomination is perfect then when jokes like this are made they do sound serious. As it was after alot of thought I decided to give John Spong the benefit of the doubt and assume he was joking. To illustrate using another situation. Imagine if I constantly was critical of my wife and everything she did. then imagine if I made a joke about how things would be better if she was dead. She would take take it seriously if there was never anything positive said.
Also I have spoken with Hillsong pastors about what I believed to be false teaching so it is possible. I have only heard of one person being escorted from premises by security and I fully support that move. There is an appropiate time and place and that was not the time or the place.
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Hi TC
I can kinda understand where sleak is coming from. If you see someone do nothing but put down a part of God's church while giving the impression that they think their denomination is perfect then when jokes like this are made they do sound serious. As it was after alot of thought I decided to give John Spong the benefit of the doubt and assume he was joking. To illustrate using another situation. Imagine if I constantly was critical of my wife and everything she did. then imagine if I made a joke about how things would be better if she was dead. She would take take it seriously if there was never anything positive said.
Also I have spoken with Hillsong pastors about what I believed to be false teaching so it is possible. I have only heard of one person being escorted from premises by security and I fully support that move. There is an appropiate time and place and that was not the time or the place.
I can kinda understand where sleak is coming from. If you see someone do nothing but put down a part of God's church while giving the impression that they think their denomination is perfect then when jokes like this are made they do sound serious. As it was after alot of thought I decided to give John Spong the benefit of the doubt and assume he was joking. To illustrate using another situation. Imagine if I constantly was critical of my wife and everything she did. then imagine if I made a joke about how things would be better if she was dead. She would take take it seriously if there was never anything positive said.
Also I have spoken with Hillsong pastors about what I believed to be false teaching so it is possible. I have only heard of one person being escorted from premises by security and I fully support that move. There is an appropiate time and place and that was not the time or the place.
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Considering the title of this thread, what do you expect us to discuss? Ice cream?
Of course Hillsong stands out in this country, we don't really have anything else of the same...calibre.
Of course Hillsong stands out in this country, we don't really have anything else of the same...calibre.
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John Spong is wrong
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Amen sister!
Brian Houston is accountable to no one. No one dares challenge him (at least if they want to avoid his security bouncers manhandling them out the front door).
I'm getting a little sick & tired of the refrain 'stop judging poor Hillsong'. This church has done unbelievable damage, and prophetic voices need to be raised against it.
Brian Houston is accountable to no one. No one dares challenge him (at least if they want to avoid his security bouncers manhandling them out the front door).
I'm getting a little sick & tired of the refrain 'stop judging poor Hillsong'. This church has done unbelievable damage, and prophetic voices need to be raised against it.
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John Spong is wrong
Regular Member
Considering the title of this thread, what do you expect us to discuss? Ice cream?
Of course Hillsong stands out in this country, we don't really have anything else of the same...calibre.
ROFL - love your wit and humour TC.
Yeah, Hillsong stands out all right . . . for all the wrong reasons. Btw, notice how Hillsong wants its cake and to eat it too - Brian Houston is happy to suck up to the phoney happy clappy former Treasurer Peter Costello and PM John Howard and rake in huge media coverage (what media harlots), but when the media turns around and bites Brian on the backside he cries foul play. Sorry Brian - you made your bed, now lie in it.
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I didn't say they were irrelevant, I said they were out-of-context. Sorry, it's a personal gripe of mine. No offence intended.
That's fair, but please be aware most of us use these threads to discuss various facets of the church. If we wanted to specifically 'talk bad' about it, there wouldn't be any discussion, just 'talking bad'. This particular topic is a little more specific, and was started off the back of a few news articles.
I am curious, how do you propose we take it up with the pastor of that church? From what I've seen/read, the Hillsong leaders don't exactly take kindly to criticism or questioning. Stuff like having their security personnel escorting detractors off the premises. Kind of makes it difficult for anyone to 'go straight o the source'
It becomes a very dangerous situation indeed when churches have absolutely no accountability.
As it is, they have virtually none outside their own walls.
I would be interested to hear your context for that verse, please PM me on it for a discussion! I would love to bounce some thoughts off you!
As for how I would contact the pastors of Hillsong, I would start with an email to the church, putting up sensible discussions regarding the gripes you have, including scriptural back up as to why you have those gripes. If then I didn't get a reply, I would phone and ask to speak with one of the Pastors for the same reason, failing that, I would go to the church itself, and speak with someone there.
And yeah, of course this thread isnt going to be a HIllsong praising one, as you stated, yes it was originally started to bring up the medias responce to a minority of people who had troubles at Mercy Ministries. I think this thread has gone away from the topic regarding that, as it was all spoken about and sorted out, and has now gone on to be a bashing thread, We already have many of these and now a specific one which John spong guy has started!
I guess my main concern is that there are some people on these forums that continually talk bad about Hillsong and the whole pentecostal denomination. We are all brothers and sisters in Christ, we should act like it! There are MANY things that other churches and denominations do that dont seem right, but at the end of the day, we are all in this together, and there will always be some things that we disagree on.... as long as they are non essential items, then we can all still be friends. Make sence?
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hang on the other week you were saying how you thought it was a good thing that there was no accountability in other groups yet once again you condemn Brian Houston for having no accountability. Not only did you not answer that issue last time it was raised you also failed to address specific examples where there was accountability. you also failed to answer questions about providing proof that simply because Hillsong is a major (or the major) financial contributor to Mercy ministries that they must be calling the shots. yet again more allegations from you without any proof.
I have never been manhandled by security or asked to leave despite questioning teaching that I heard at Hillsong. You have also failed to provide evidence of people being manhandled. I previously acknowledged that it had happened but only once that I am aware of and on that occasion it was a perfectly legitimate action. There is a time and place for speaking up and that occasion was not it.
So I would now also like you to provide proof of how a baptist church was pulled into line when they got rid of a minister because he wasn't wealthy enough. I'm not going to name the specific church as I don't believe it would advance God's kingdom but the point is all denominations do wrong. having had alot of involvement with baptists, anglicans, uniting church, lutherans and the Salvation Army I can tell you heaps of stories about sinful actions by them. Because they aren't as big as Hillsong we don't seem to care about it or want to put it in the media. I wonder if that has anything to do with the tall poppy syndrome????
So come on put up or shut up as the saying goes. Give equal treatment to all denominations or stop bashing individual churches. Or at the very least state openly and HONESTLY what your hidden agenda is. Can you not acknowledge the good that Hillsong has done as well? I'm not for one second saying Hillsong is perfect but the certainly aren't pure evil like you seem to be suggesting they are. So how about stop ignoring posts in multiple threads that raise questions about your point of view and give some answers otherwise we might start to think prophetic voices need to be raised against you.
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