Help! I'm a heathen!

[redheadmt]

I am politically liberal. I absolutely can't stand Bush. I believe that the gay marriage amendment idea is ludicrous and terribly wrong. I am pro-choice. My problem is that the Christians that I know believe that I can not be a Christian and also have liberal beliefs. Even my born again husband puts me down and says stuff like "you either follow the map (the Bible) or you don't." My husband's best friend doesn't come here anymore after he found out the I go to a United Church of Christ. I get really depressed trying to rationalize my political beliefs with my faith in God. Does anyone have any encouraging words or advice?

 

[seebs]

Be glad that you are judged by the Christ, not by the Christians.

Perhaps you should encourage your husband to come here and discuss his faith with a variety of people. Also, there's an article you should print out for him about the Bible:

There's Something About the Way You Use the Bible

Read a lot of Real Live Preacher stories. I think they'll help you understand that your experience of the faith is not merely acceptable, but glorious.

 

[Starstreak M86]

I am politically liberal. I absolutely can't stand Bush. I believe that the gay marriage amendment idea is ludicrous and terribly wrong. I am pro-choice. My problem is that the Christians that I know believe that I can not be a Christian and also have liberal beliefs. Even my born again husband puts me down and says stuff like "you either follow the map (the Bible) or you don't." My husband's best friend doesn't come here anymore after he found out the I go to a United Church of Christ. I get really depressed trying to rationalize my political beliefs with my faith in God. Does anyone have any encouraging words or advice?

Hey sis!

Just tell those people around you who are trying to make you feel bad that they may not be following Christ as well as they would like to think.

Tell them that Christ preached to Gentiles and heathens and sinners, Christ told us to give to the poor, and Christ said to not resist a sinner. Tell those people that you have to answer to Christ ALONE, not humans.

Also, tell them that Jesus has no political party, he wouldn't like some Conservative philosophy (like Self-Determination [i.e. let the poor sink or swim]) if He were around today.

 

[redheadmt]

Thank you so much for that link. I've been near tears all day long because of a couple of comments that were made to me over the weekend, and reading that made me feel a little better.

 

[seebs]

Thank you so much for that link. I've been near tears all day long because of a couple of comments that were made to me over the weekend, and reading that made me feel a little better.

*sigh*.

The main witness most Christians have for Christianity is the testimony that we desperately need salvation.

 

[Sharp]

Hey sis!


Tell them that Christ preached to Gentiles and heathens and sinners, Christ told us to give to the poor, and Christ said to not resist a sinner. Tell those people that you have to answer to Christ ALONE, not humans.

And then tell YOURSELF Jesus Christ said it is better for a person never to have been born than to harm one of these (children), and tell them that Christ through His Holy Spirit inspired both the Old and New Testament passages condemning homosexuality, tell them that Christ speaking through the Apostle Paul said that homosexuals will not be in the Kingdom of God (refering to practicing same sex intercourse-- not to mere orientation), and tell that that you repent and believe because this same Jesus also said, "Go and sin no more."

Yes! You will have to answer to God alone. Tell yourself that Jesus warned of a time when He would have to tell the phoney false Christians "Depart from Me. I never knew you." I am NOT condemning you or saying you are not a believer, but you better make sure that your beliefs square with the Bible if you know what's good for your eternal destiny. You definitely will have to answer to God.

 

[Sharp]

Thank you so much for that link. I've been near tears all day long because of a couple of comments that were made to me over the weekend, and reading that made me feel a little better.

Let us conservative, born-again, Bible-believing Christians wipe those tears from your eyes. It is certainly acceptable to God to be honest with your doubts. I respect that too.

What you need to do is to distinguish between objective doubts of the truth claims of Christ and/or God's Word (on the one hand) and the willful rejection of the clear teaching of God's Word (on the other hand). People can easily fool themselves into letting their prejudices be accepted as moral absolutes which in turn causes them to doubt the Bible ... which disagrees with their prejudices. Isn't that what you are doing? Are you sure that your personal belief in abortion choice and homosex marriage are blinding you to the hard truths of Scripture? You cannot have both your own prejudices and God's favor. Choose.

 

[Loki]

M'dear, you're far from a heathen I should know; I'm one of the resident heathens around these parts (though I try to blend).

Definitely check out Real Live Preacher. Also, Seebs is one of the most liberal Christians here, and he's very much a Christian, very well respected, and a wonderful person to boot.

I can't really offer any advice about dealing with your Real Life people; it seems biblical debates go in circles and no one is ever convinced of anything. All I can do is hope that you find the strength to deal with this. You deserve to be treated with respect, and I hope that you find that respect.

 

[CaDan]

So a Quaker, a Pentecostal, and a Guy Who Attends a Catholic Church, But Isn't Catholic are Talking to this Christian Who Gets Called a Heathen . . .

There should be a joke there, but I can't find it.

Anyway, Real Live Preacher is fantastic because he is Real, he is Live, and he Preaches the Good News.

I have a Bible study for you (What's this craziness! CaDan with a Bible study??). Most Conservatives have a Bible around the house SOMEWHERE. You might have to look for it. It doesn't really matter what version; although if you don't read Greek you should probably use an English translation

Read Mark straight through, a chapter at a time. Imagine, if you can, that someone is just telling you a bunch of stories. After all, that is what Mark is, a bunch of stories. Don't use any study guides. Ignore any footnotes. Don't think about how verses prove things. Just read it straight through.

And they'll ask you, "What are you doing?" And you'll say, "Oh, just bible study." And they'll think, "Oh, how nice, she's doing BIBLE STUDY (TM). soon she will be assimilated!" But you, however, will actually be reading and listening.

/me shuffles feet and looks a little embarrassed

I think you might need one of these:

The LORD bless you and keep you:
The LORD make his face to shine upon you, and be gracious to you:
The LORD lift up his countenance upon you, and give you peace.

 

[Firefly]

My problem is that the Christians that I know believe that I can not be a Christian and also have liberal beliefs.

Welcome to the club

I can only say the turning point came for me when I realized my love for
Christ is fierce, my belief in His Lordship is solid, and it really doesn't matter
if someone else would like to question my faith. That's their problem, not
mine.

It does hurt, though, very much, to be rejected and questioned by those whom
we love most, even when they think they're doing what is best for us. So
I know it hurts. But know that others deal with the same problem and you're
not alone.

~firefly

 

[CaDan]

Evil snipped

You weren't listening the first time, were you?

And it is truly an object of pity that some people are so wilfully purblind to the Holy Scriptures that they fail to see the message of Christ about how we should treat all others, preferring to use proof-texts as justification for their own disdain for others. One of the things that keeps me witnessing to the faith here is my desire that none of them be judged as goats in that Day of Days, and, thinking that their adherence to moral rules is sufficient, hear from Christ those dreaded words, "Depart from me; I never knew you." It could not be any clearer in Christ's own words that as we judge others, so we too shall be judged, and that His command is that we treat them with the love, compassion, forgiveness, and mercy with which we would hope to be judged. Yet many people see grounds in Paul's letters, the laws of the Torah, and Christ's teachings on how we should run our own lives to sit in judgment over others, looking on them scornfully and with disdain, casting them out as "not real Christians" who are "not doctrinally pure" and whose attempts to follow His commandments they deem as "compromising with the spirit of this world." It is my heartfelt desire that those who have mistaken moral rules for the commands of Christ repent and be saved -- but their own blindness to His very words makes them see my witness as "condoning sin" and "compromising the faith."

 

[CaDan]

Let us conservative, born-again, Bible-believing Christians wipe those tears from your eyes. It is certainly acceptable to God to be honest with your doubts. I respect that too.

What you need to do is to distinguish between objective doubts of the truth claims of Christ and/or God's Word (on the one hand) and the willful rejection of the clear teaching of God's Word (on the other hand). People can easily fool themselves into letting their prejudices be accepted as moral absolutes which in turn causes them to doubt the Bible ... which disagrees with their prejudices. Isn't that what you are doing? Are you sure that your personal belief in abortion choice and homosex marriage are blinding you to the hard truths of Scripture? You cannot have both your own prejudices and God's favor. Choose.

I'm not as wise as Polycarp.

Shut up.

 

[Loki]

I'm not as wise as Polycarp.

Shut up.

ROFL!

Sorry, just struck me really funny. Thanks for saying what I don't have the guts to say.

I should resume being polite, or at least pretending to be polite.

*giggle*

 

[Loki]

Please don't be put off by some conservative posters on CF; the people here run the spectrum, and from my pov, it's a little heavy with the literalists, but there are some great, liberal christians around.

 

[seebs]

It's salvation by works ALL OVER AGAIN!

Yes, folks, you saw it here first. Two thousand years after Jesus finally got people to understand that we were not saved through "being righteous", because NONE of us were righteous enough, we have finally successfully reinvented the holiness code! Once again, there are people who are "not good enough", people who cannot be saved because they are unclean, because they do not say the right magic words. Love for Christ is not enough. Letting Him fill you with the kind of righteousness He preached is not enough. If you aren't out there holding right-wing political positions, HELL FOR YOU!

The Pharisees are back in town, and ready to kick some butts! Represent!

 

[seebs]

And then tell YOURSELF Jesus Christ said it is better for a person never to have been born than to harm one of these (children),

Indeed.

So, given that one of His children is here, asking for support and a welcome into the faith, why are you kicking her in the stomach?

 

[ThePhoenix]

Well I just thought I'd stick my head in one of the dreaded theology forums, and look what I found! An actual nice post by a nice person! Welcome, and don't worry, there's a lot of us heathens around these parts Most of us are nice people (of course there's me, who's probably the stunning counterexample to that

) Hang out, listen to seebs (he's a lot smarter then me) and have fun!

P.S. Don't take the flames too seriously. The theology forums are usually Bar-B-Ques, and I say that as a veteran of the News and Politics forums. The fact that you've only attracted one so far means you're a great person.

 

[Loki]

Seebs, it's probably useless. He always disappears after about 2 posts, when he's been thoroughly rebuked.

 

[CaDan]

The Pharisees are back in town, and ready to kick some butts! Represent!

Those Pharisees. Man, always playin' games with the ice cream.

First, they're all like, "Free Ice Cream." But then they're like, "But first you have to watch this educational video." And you're all like, "But you said 'Free Ice Cream.'" And they're all like, "But we can't just give away ice cream. It is too yummy and delicious." And you're all like, "Man, that's a rip off. You lied to me." And they're all like, "It wasn't a lie. We're not charging any MONEY for the ice cream." And you're all like, "That doesn't seem right." And they're all like, "Looks like you're too dumb if you can't understand a simple thing like ADVERTISING." And you're all like, "I just wanted some ice cream." And they're all like, "Go away. No ice cream for you."

And then you look and they don't even have any ice cream. All they have is that crappy Italian Ice stuff that isn't anything like ice cream.

That's what I think of Pharisees.

 

[seebs]

Seebs, it's probably useless. He always disappears after about 2 posts, when he's been thoroughly rebuked.

(edited on reflection)

Yeah, I dunno what the deal is. I don't think he has a lot of follow-through on some of these arguments, which can be frustrating.