Hell, Is It Fair?

[HopeBforJC]

Is hell fair? Is the torture of burning in hell for eternity fair? How? Isn't god supposed to be a loving god? What kind of god would make the people they supposedly love burn in hell forever?

OR...is hell not as bad as everyone makes it out to be? It is just another earth that is just a complete serperation from god?

Some people believe that Christians wont be resurrected/go to heaven right when they die. Not until the rapture. Would that mean that people wouldn't go to hell right away either?

 

[Optimax]

Is hell fair? Is the torture of burning in hell for eternity fair? How? Isn't god supposed to be a loving god? What kind of god would make the people they supposedly love burn in hell forever?

OR...is hell not as bad as everyone makes it out to be? It is just another earth that is just a complete serperation from god?

Some people believe that Christians wont be resurrected/go to heaven right when they die. Not until the rapture. Would that mean that people wouldn't go to hell right away either?

Is hell fair? Yes more than fair when the way out is so simple. What is hard about Jesus?

God does not make anyone go there. He allows everyone to decide for themselves.

Christains that die go to heaven right away, no waiting.

The rapture is for those christains who are alive at the time God says that the age of grace is over. They are taken out of the earth and go to heaven without the body dieing. The body is changed to a body like Jesus has.

People who die without Jesus go to hell right then.

 

[HopeBforJC]

Ok, I'm gonna reply to this one at a time.

Is hell fair? Yes more than fair when the way out is so simple. What is hard about Jesus?

Maybe you should check out General Apologetics. I'm sure the atheist and seekers could very easily answer that question for you. Many of them have tried to find God, but can't seem to understand it, or see how he at all matches up with reality. Accepting the idea of a god isn't easy, if you take into all the critical thoughts and stuff. It is a lot more difficult then you make it out to be.

God does not make anyone go there. He allows everyone to decide for themselves.

I understand, and agree. Sept, he does make people go there Technically anyways. I think when people went to go get judged, I highly doubt when they realized they were wrong about God...I highly doubt that they'd choose hell. But that's just me. No one wants to be eternally separated from family and friends

Christains that die go to heaven right away, no waiting.

I'm not saying I disagree. But I am just trying to be difficult. There are scriptures throughout the NT that describe how the dead will rise first, how do you explain that? Why would the dead be rising if they were already in heaven?

The rapture is for those christains who are alive at the time God says that the age of grace is over. They are taken out of the earth and go to heaven without the body dieing. The body is changed to a body like Jesus has.

I know what the rapture is. Where does it say that our body will be changed into the body like Jesus has? Just curious. I've heard that before, never read it myself.

 

[Optimax]

Ok, I'm gonna reply to this one at a time.



Maybe you should check out General Apologetics. I'm sure the atheist and seekers could very easily answer that question for you. Many of them have tried to find God, but can't seem to understand it, or see how he at all matches up with reality. Accepting the idea of a god isn't easy, if you take into all the critical thoughts and stuff. It is a lot more difficult then you make it out to be.

I have posted over there a lot. I remember to though before I got serious with God that it did not matter how resonable the argument was I there was not anyway that I would have accepted it. Lots of that goes on over there as well.

I understand, and agree. Sept, he does make people go there Technically anyways. I think when people went to go get judged, I highly doubt when they realized they were wrong about God...I highly doubt that they'd choose hell. But that's just me. No one wants to be eternally separated from family and friends


I'm not saying I disagree. But I am just trying to be difficult. There are scriptures throughout the NT that describe how the dead will rise first, how do you explain that? Why would the dead be rising if they were already in heaven?

The dead rising first is a reference to the dead in Christ. That means they have died and gone to heaven.
When scripture says the dead will rise first that is saying that their bodies will rise out of the graves or wherever their body is and the person(who has been in heaven since death) will be reunited with their body.

I know what the rapture is. Where does it say that our body will be changed into the body like Jesus has? Just curious. I've heard that before, never read it myself.

1 Co 15:52
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
KJV

This scripture tells us about the change.
The one below tells us the change will be one making us immortal. In other words we are not subject to death any longer.

1 Co 15:53
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
KJV

When Jesus was resurrected He to was in a body that would no longer be subject to death. It is called a glorified body. We get one to.

 

[HopeBforJC]

1 Co 15:52
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
KJV

This scripture tells us about the change.
The one below tells us the change will be one making us immortal. In other words we are not subject to death any longer.

1 Co 15:53
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
KJV

When Jesus was resurrected He to was in a body that would no longer be subject to death. It is called a glorified body. We get one to.

"reunited with our body"

So does that mean that just our soul is in heaven until the resurrection?

I have posted over there a lot. I remember to though before I got serious with God that it did not matter how resonable the argument was I there was not anyway that I would have accepted it. Lots of that goes on over there as well.

That doesn't mean that they weren't sincere in their search for God. Why is it that when some people search they find god. But when others try, they cant seem to find him.

But yes, there are a few stubborn peanuts over there

 

[Optimax]

"reunited with our body"

So does that mean that just our soul is in heaven until the resurrection?

According to scripture we are made up of three parts. Spirit, Soul and Body.

You are a Spirit, you have a soul (emotion, mind, will) and you live in a physical body.

At death we are seperated from our body. The spirit and soul goes to heaven or hell.

That doesn't mean that they weren't sincere in their search for God. Why is it that when some people search they find god. But when others try, they cant seem to find him.

But yes, there are a few stubborn peanuts over there

I believe the truth is that when any person is seeking God wanting to know him they "find" him and it doesn't take long.

However as long as that old "rebellion" is ruling. Well those are "peanuts" for sure.

 

[HopeBforJC]

According to scripture we are made up of three parts. Spirit, Soul and Body.

You are a Spirit, you have a soul (emotion, mind, will) and you live in a physical body.

At death we are seperated from our body. The spirit and soul goes to heaven or hell.

Ok, yeah that's what I thought.

But anyways, do you really believe that eternal torment is fair? Or even god like? God is supposed to be this all loving God..what kind of god would "burn" a person in hell forever. That's just plain sick. If you thought of a person burning another person to death, you would be disgusted. Now why would a loving god do that..forever?

 

[Optimax]

Ok, yeah that's what I thought.

But anyways, do you really believe that eternal torment is fair? Or even god like? God is supposed to be this all loving God..what kind of god would "burn" a person in hell forever. That's just plain sick. If you thought of a person burning another person to death, you would be disgusted. Now why would a loving god do that..forever?

Much different than burning a live persons body.

People still make the choice to go there.

Another thing that is hard to understand at first is that when a person dies without Jesus the person is much different from the one you knew. The "sin nature" within has no restraints any longer and most would not believe that it is the same person.

 

[HopeBforJC]

Much different than burning a live persons body.

People still make the choice to go there.

Another thing that is hard to understand at first is that when a person dies without Jesus the person is much different from the one you knew. The "sin nature" within has no restraints any longer and most would not believe that it is the same person.

So what would you compare it to?

People don't choose to go there. People grow up in different societies. There are a lot of different religions and people that just plain out dont believe in god because they cant seem to come to believe in it. If you have a really great person (there are a lot of them) that doesnt believe in god. I mean, this person is better than most christians. And he winds up in hell, I can't seem to figure how that is fair?

 

[AtlasDM]

The reason that some people find God and other people don't is, in my opinion, that those who don't find God aren't looking for Him. They're looking for their own God, one that fits the perception they have of what God should be like. There's nothing hard about finding God unless you aren't willing to accept the Bible as the full authority of who God is. I've seen it before, in my own home even, when someone isn't willing to accept the Word of God, they never seem to find Him.

Back to the thread's topic, Hell is very fair. Hell is simply eternal separation from God (with the addition of fire of course). How is it not fair that a person who spends their whole life choosing not to turn to God get their wish for eternity? Matthew 7:8 says, " For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened." If you choose not to seek out God, you shouldn't think Hell is unfair.

 

[HopeBforJC]

How is it not fair that a person who spends their whole life choosing not to turn to God get their wish for eternity?

That's silly (it's the kindest words I could think of ). Sure there are some people in this world that blatantly deny Christ and are proud of it. But there are even more people who are completely "innocent" per se...they're good people and live decent lives. Not all non christians are jerks. Anyways, look outside the box and think about what im saying.

 

[probinson]

For God SO LOVED the world that He GAVE His one and only Son.....

All we have to do is accept that. That's it. We can't earn salvation, we don't have to understand it... We just have to be like little children and believe in our hearts that Jesus is Lord. That's it.

When you choose not to do that, then the Bible tells us the wages of sin is death. "But I'm a 'good' person". The Bible says there is not one righteous, no not one. (Romans 3:10). Just by being born into this world, you are born in a corruptible body. We all need Jesus to save us.

As I said, you don't have to understand it, for your own human mind can not comprehend it. But the heavens shout it, the mountains declare it, HE IS LORD.


Still, some people choose to reject the Savior, no matter what their reason may be, and those people have sent themselves to hell. While God did everything He needed to do to save us from eternal damnation, He left the choice up to us.

Deuteronomy 30:19
I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:
​

Look at that! God even knows how dumb we can be. He tells us to CHOOSE LIFE. But it's up to us.

God doesn't send us to hell. Our sin does. And He Loved us so much, He made a way for us to conquer sin, death and hell, even though we did nothing to deserve it. Is that fair? Nope, but God Loved us, even before the foundation of the world, while we were yet sinners, so that we could spend eternity with Him.

 

[Bick]

Is hell fair? Is the torture of burning in hell for eternity fair? How? Isn't god supposed to be a loving god? What kind of god would make the people they supposedly love burn in hell forever?

OR...is hell not as bad as everyone makes it out to be? It is just another earth that is just a complete serperation from god?

Some people believe that Christians wont be resurrected/go to heaven right when they die. Not until the rapture. Would that mean that people wouldn't go to hell right away either?

Hi G for JC: The concept of a "hell"...a place of eternal torment for disembodied souls...is tradition only, not from the true meaning of the original scriptures.

From what I've read, the church fathers, particularly those in Rome, believed in the immortality of the soul, and the souls of the righteous, upon death, would spend eternity in heaven; then conversely, the wicked souls would spend eternity in conscious torment in hell.

This power the church leaders had, to condemn anyone to hell if they lived "wicked" lives, was preached to keep the masses in check.

The truth is, no where in the Scriptures does it say "the wages of sin is eternal punishment in hell."

Starting with Adam, the ration of sin was death. When he ate of the forbidden fruit, to death he started dying. And he died at 930 years.

Our apostle Paul also writes in Rom. 3:23, "The wages of sin is death."

As for the soul being immortal, what do the scriptures teach? Let's read a few pertinent verses:

Gen.2:7 "And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."

NOTICE: A separate soul was not breathed into a prepared body. Man became a LIVING SOUL when the breath of the spirit of life was breathed into his nostrils.

To conduct a word study of "soul" is a long and arduous task. I have done it, and IMO, it will be seen that the Scriptures relate knowledge, memory, thought, love, joy, delight, bitterness, distress, impatience, mourning, sorrow, grief, abhorence and hatred to the soul.

Consequently, the Soul could be said to be the consciousness, the feelings, the desires procuced by the breath of life vitalizing the body.

Since man is a sentient (soulish) being, when he dies, his feelings, his consciousness, etc, are gone: they disappear.

Many times the soul is said to die or be dead:
Josh. 10:28 "And that day Joshua took Makkedah and smote it with the edge of the sword and the king thereof...and all the souls therein." See also: Josh. 10:30,32,35,37,39; 11:11; Jer.2:34; Ezek. 13:19; 22:25-27, and one quoted often:
Ezek. 18:4 "..the soul that sinneth it shall die."

Some verses that clarifty that no one, except Christ Jesus, has ascended into heaven:
John 3:13 "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but He that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven." Written by John after Jesus' ascension.
Acts 2:34 "For David is not ascended into the heavens.." Spoken by Peter on the day of Pentecost.

All for now, Bick

 

[HopeBforJC]

Hi G for JC: The concept of a "hell"...a place of eternal torment for disembodied souls...is tradition only, not from the true meaning of the original scriptures.

From what I've read, the church fathers, particularly those in Rome, believed in the immortality of the soul, and the souls of the righteous, upon death, would spend eternity in heaven; then conversely, the wicked souls would spend eternity in conscious torment in hell.

This power the church leaders had, to condemn anyone to hell if they lived "wicked" lives, was preached to keep the masses in check.

The truth is, no where in the Scriptures does it say "the wages of sin is eternal punishment in hell."

Starting with Adam, the ration of sin was death. When he ate of the forbidden fruit, to death he started dying. And he died at 930 years.

Our apostle Paul also writes in Rom. 3:23, "The wages of sin is death."

As for the soul being immortal, what do the scriptures teach? Let's read a few pertinent verses:

Gen.2:7 "And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."

NOTICE: A separate soul was not breathed into a prepared body. Man became a LIVING SOUL when the breath of the spirit of life was breathed into his nostrils.

To conduct a word study of "soul" is a long and arduous task. I have done it, and IMO, it will be seen that the Scriptures relate knowledge, memory, thought, love, joy, delight, bitterness, distress, impatience, mourning, sorrow, grief, abhorence and hatred to the soul.

Consequently, the Soul could be said to be the consciousness, the feelings, the desires procuced by the breath of life vitalizing the body.

Since man is a sentient (soulish) being, when he dies, his feelings, his consciousness, etc, are gone: they disappear.

Many times the soul is said to die or be dead:
Josh. 10:28 "And that day Joshua took Makkedah and smote it with the edge of the sword and the king thereof...and all the souls therein." See also: Josh. 10:30,32,35,37,39; 11:11; Jer.2:34; Ezek. 13:19; 22:25-27, and one quoted often:
Ezek. 18:4 "..the soul that sinneth it shall die."

Some verses that clarifty that no one, except Christ Jesus, has ascended into heaven:
John 3:13 "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but He that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven." Written by John after Jesus' ascension.
Acts 2:34 "For David is not ascended into the heavens.." Spoken by Peter on the day of Pentecost.

All for now, Bick

Hello Bick,
Thank you for your response. I appreciate it. The only question I have is, if the wages of sin is death, what happens after they die?

Take care,
Hope

 

[AtlasDM]

The fact of the matter is that it doesn't matter how good of a life you live, if you aren't saved you don't go to heaven, you go to hell. Eternal life isn't given according to works. It doesn't matter how many homeless people you feed, or how much you give to charity, or even how many hail Mary's you say, or whatever work you think makes someone a good person. Jesus said, "I am the way and the truth and the life, no man comes to the Father except through me." If you don't accept Jesus Christ you end up in hell one way or another. If God knocks on your door and you don't answer, then too bad for you. People have too many opportunities to come to Christ in their life to make up an excuse for why they just didn't do it. And if a person doesn't even know about God, say a native in the amazon or something, they get judged fairly. It's in the book, read it. No one is "innocent." That's a silly idea, "for all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God." It's true that the wages of sin is death, that's why everyone dies, but those who are in Christ are given eternal life in the kingdom of heaven, and those who are not are cast in to the lake of fire, aka hell.

The only reason a person should be concerned about how fair hell is is if they have reason to believe they're going there, and if you're worried that you might be going to hell, no matter who you are, send me a pm or an email and I will help you find Christ, and if I can't help you, I'll help you find help. Please ask for help if you need it, hell doesn't have to be an option.

 

[davedjy]

For God SO LOVED the world that He GAVE His one and only Son.....

All we have to do is accept that. That's it. We can't earn salvation, we don't have to understand it... We just have to be like little children and believe in our hearts that Jesus is Lord. That's it.

We have to do more than just the regular sense of believing in Him, I'm not sure if you knew it or just left it out, but there is still more to it than that. Satan knows who Jesus is, and he knows with all he is too..part of believing in Him is following after Him with everything that we are...our minds, our souls and all that we are...and in obedience as well and repenting and turning from sin. That is truly believing in Jesus!

A great example for this would be Matthew 7:21; "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? And in thy name have cast out devils? And in thy name done many wonderful works 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

 

[JEBrady]

Is hell fair? Is the torture of burning in hell for eternity fair? How? Isn't god supposed to be a loving god? What kind of god would make the people they supposedly love burn in hell forever?

Will the judge of all the earth do right? Is God love?

OR...is hell not as bad as everyone makes it out to be? It is just another earth that is just a complete serperation from god?

Jesus said, "It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into hell, 'where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched.' " So, no, it's every bit as bad as you could possibly imagine, and then worse.

Some people believe that Christians wont be resurrected/go to heaven right when they die. Not until the rapture. Would that mean that people wouldn't go to hell right away either?

Actually, hell, or hades, is not the end of the road for the lost. It's more a holding cell until the judgment, at which time the lost will be cast into the lake of fire. Jesus told the account of the rich man and Lazarus, in which it became clear the rich man was in hell. So, yes, the lost dead go immediately to hell.

 

[HopeBforJC]

The only reason a person should be concerned about how fair hell is is if they have reason to believe they're going there, and if you're worried that you might be going to hell, no matter who you are, send me a pm or an email and I will help you find Christ, and if I can't help you, I'll help you find help. Please ask for help if you need it, hell doesn't have to be an option.

You and me could be like twins. I've said exactly what you stated in your entire post so many times. I couldn't help but laugh at the similarities between you and the old me. Maybe I should convert back to the old me, ehh? Kidding aside, I completely disagree with what I've quoted you on. A person has very many reasons to be worried how fair hell is. I don't know about you, but I have family and friends who are not Christian. People I love dearly who have not accepted Christ and probably never will. I accept that fact that they will go to hell, it's a tough pill to swallow, but I accept it. I'm not gonna sit back and not try and do something, but at the end of the day I know no matter how hard I try they will most likely not come to know Christ.

I am just trying to learn, and form my views Atlas. I used to have the same view as you because that's what I've been taught (the last three years that I've been a Christian), at my church. I never bothered to look, or even seriously think about the beliefs that they've caused me to form. I never ever once cracked open a book and tried to refute anything I was taught..until like the past year. I've recently come to realize that yes, God is just, and I believe sin should be punished, but it is plain out sick and sadistic to "burn" someone for eternity. My god isn't like that. I've said this example somewhere else before, maybe not in this thread, but if some human being burnt another human being to death, you would be absolutely disgusted with that person (hopefully). I can't bring myself to believe that my god, my savior, my god who is love..would do that. I DO believe that sins should be accounted for. But not in such a nasty, disgusting, appalling way. It's sick...and I just can't believe it.

 

[davedjy]

I am just trying to learn, and form my views Atlas. I used to have the same view as you because that's what I've been taught (the last three years that I've been a Christian), at my church. I never bothered to look, or even seriously think about the beliefs that they've caused me to form. I never ever once cracked open a book and tried to refute anything I was taught..until like the past year. I've recently come to realize that yes, God is just, and I believe sin should be punished, but is plain out sick and sadistic to "burn" someone for eternity. My god isn't like that. I've said this example somewhere else before, maybe not in this thread, but if some human being burnt another human being to death, you would be absolutely disgusted with that person (hopefully). I can't bring myself to believe that my god, my savior, my god who is love..would do that. I DO believe that sins should be accounted for. But not in such a nasty, disgusting, appalling way. It's sick...and I just can't believe it.

There are many sides to God...He is also an angry God, He hates sin and workers of iniquity (Matthew 7:21) Do you believe that there is a hell and that people go there? the Bible makes it very clear. I think satan deceives people into thinking that people will not go there. If we are not to believe in Hell, don't you see how that would water down the point of Missionary and various other Ministries? Take these verses for example:

And I say to you, My friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do. But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear Him who, after He has killed, has power to cast into hell; yes, I say to you, fear Him! (Luke 12:4-5)

"God is ANGRY every day." Psalm 7:11 (following the Hebrew text)

"For the wrath of God IS revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men. . ." Romans 1:18-32

 

[HopeBforJC]

There are many sides to God...He is also an angry God, He hates sin and workers of iniquity (Matthew 7:21) Do you believe that there is a hell and that people go there? the Bible makes it very clear. I think satan deceives people into thinking that people will not go there. If we are not to believe in Hell, don't you see how that would water down the point of Missionary and various other Ministries? Take these verses for example:

And I say to you, My friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do. But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear Him who, after He has killed, has power to cast into hell; yes, I say to you, fear Him! (Luke 12:4-5)

"God is ANGRY every day." Psalm 7:11 (following the Hebrew text)

"For the wrath of God IS revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men. . ." Romans 1:18-32

I'm not exactly sure what I believe. I am debating two options right now.

- There is a hell, but people are punished differently. Perhaps different levels of hell? And I'm not sure if I believe it will be eternal punishment either. And I'm not sure if I believe it will be painful. They will mourn (possibly due to eternal separation from family and friends) and they will be eternally separated from God. Those two things could be one of the worst things. Maybe there might be some pain involved at first, but if there is pain, I don't believe it will last forever.

- That hell is death... "the wages of sin is death" among other things. Hades is translated once as death. And there are a lot of other things that could point to this as well.