Hell and Justice

[Pondering]

I have a question for those who believe in hell as a place of eternal existance, awarness, and suffering in a Biblical imagery kind of way. How does that fit with your picture of God as i) loving, and ii) just.

 

[Bizzlebin Imperatoris]

God provided plenty of ways out, and it sure is justice, considering you are still allowed to exist having sinned.

 

[Blank123]

The Bible says:

23For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:23

we as people deserve to die, because all of us are sinners. God proved that He is a loving God when He sent his Son to die for us and provide a way to avoid hell

 

[jayswife29]

Every one sins, sin seperates us from God, God wants us back so He made a way to get us back....now its up to us to accept His gift of ever-lasting life. While it saddens me to think that people will spend eternity in hell, it just goes to show that God is a faithful God, He says what He means, and means what He says. If all of a sudden He were to change His mind about people going to hell, I would doubt Gods credibility.

 

[Benjammin]

The Bible says:

23For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:23

we as people deserve to die, because all of us are sinners. God proved that He is a loving God when He sent his Son to die for us and provide a way to avoid hell

Exactly, God is just, he cannot be in the presence of sin, so we, was sinners, cannot be in Heaven, but, Jesus died on the cross for our sins, to take the blame and to take our place. This was God's love, so that we, because of his love in sending Christ for us, could be in Heaven with him.

 

[Philip]

The pain of Hell is of our making, not God's.

 

[Bradford]

We, as sinners, both in the act of Adam and in our lives, have committed an act of "cosmic treason" It would have been perfectly just of God to have cast our entire race into hell, for we fully deserve it. But, God is love, so he predestined some of Adam's race to be saved- (Rom. 8:29-30)- Those who go to hell, are there recieving just punishment (Rom. 6:23) for their sins. We who are predestined into life, are recieving mercy, being totally without merit.

 

[Pondering]

God provided plenty of ways out, and it sure is justice, considering you are still allowed to exist having sinned.

Even in the OT a rule of justice was an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth. This was not suppose to be a way of making sure 'you get yours,' buta way of making sure the punishment did not exceed the crime. If in responce to someone stealing something, the law court in Britan punished him by putting out his eyes, locking him in stocks for 10 years and then hanging him there would be an up cry. We would acknowlage that that was not just on the basis that the punishment far out weighed the crime.
For a brief and small length of time, the time of life which is like the grass that is here today and gone tomorrow the punishment is an eternal awarness of firey tourture (for e t e r n i t y), then the punishment is not equitable. It does not seem just.
It would seem less so if we consider that people are born with a sin nature, that sin nature means that it is not possible to do right all the time. I didn't put the serpent in the garden, nor the tree (although I accept both as being part of Gods plan). Christine, (sorry got personal) I mean someone, spends their life doing the best they can, but is certianly not perfect, the penality for something that they had no power to prevent, does not fit the crime.
Consider Justice. Does it seem just?

 

[ksen]

Even in the OT a rule of justice was an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth. This was not suppose to be a way of making sure 'you get yours,' buta way of making sure the punishment did not exceed the crime.

What sort of punishment would be just for a crime committed against an Eternal Being?

 

[ceedaisy]

I do not understand the reason for hell in the first place. Why doesn't God just poof them into non existence? God has let Satan roam the earth in the first place. Why even mess with Humans? He could have done away with Adam and started over. He could have killed Satan long ago. This is what I don't get. Why all this pain in the first place?

 

[Svt4Him]

Even in the OT a rule of justice was an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth. This was not suppose to be a way of making sure 'you get yours,' buta way of making sure the punishment did not exceed the crime. If in responce to someone stealing something, the law court in Britan punished him by putting out his eyes, locking him in stocks for 10 years and then hanging him there would be an up cry. We would acknowlage that that was not just on the basis that the punishment far out weighed the crime.
For a brief and small length of time, the time of life which is like the grass that is here today and gone tomorrow the punishment is an eternal awarness of firey tourture (for e t e r n i t y), then the punishment is not equitable. It does not seem just.

Then perhaps you don't see sin as being as bad as it is? If a just God has said the punishment for sin is eternal, maybe we can then say the crime is obviously worse than what we imagine.

It would seem less so if we consider that people are born with a sin nature, that sin nature means that it is not possible to do right all the time. I didn't put the serpent in the garden, nor the tree (although I accept both as being part of Gods plan). Christine, (sorry got personal) I mean someone, spends their life doing the best they can, but is certianly not perfect, the penality for something that they had no power to prevent, does not fit the crime.
Consider Justice. Does it seem just?

I believe we are born with a tendancy to sin, but to blame your sin on the serpent, or the tree, or Adam and Eve isn't right. Have you lied recently? If so, did the devil make you do it? Did you have a choice not to, but felt Adam whispering in your ear? You are responsible for your sin, no one else. You have the power to prevent lying, you have the power not to steal. Ever take something that didn't belong to you, no matter how small? You have the power to stop. Now all will sin because we are bent on it, and we all choose to do it.

 

[Bradford]

I do not understand the reason for hell in the first place. Why doesn't God just poof them into non existence? God has let Satan roam the earth in the first place. Why even mess with Humans? He could have done away with Adam and started over. He could have killed Satan long ago. This is what I don't get. Why all this pain in the first place?

Doing away with Adam would have caused all the elect to never have been born- thus there would have been no slavation- which was not done for our sake, but rather that God be glorified.

And annihalism? That would not have been just- that would not have been full punishment for our sin...

 

[Duggie]

For a brief and small length of time, the time of life which is like the grass that is here today and gone tomorrow the punishment is an eternal awarness of firey tourture (for e t e r n i t y), then the punishment is not equitable. It does not seem just.

I see your point, but you have to understand that it works both ways. As a christian i live a short while here on earth and my reward is eternity in heaven. Most people, even those who have no faith whatsoever, are willing to accept an eternity in heaven because of the "good" they have done in their short lives here on earth. However, if you explain to them same people that the opposite is also true and that hell is also eternal they have a hard time dealing with that. We have been given free will to choose whether we serve God or not. Hell for me is not so much about the degrees of punishment that exist there or the lake of fire etc... As terrible as those things are, hell for me is more about being seperated from God forever because of the decisions I made.

 

[G4m]

Even in the OT a rule of justice was an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth. This was not suppose to be a way of making sure 'you get yours,' buta way of making sure the punishment did not exceed the crime. If in responce to someone stealing something, the law court in Britan punished him by putting out his eyes, locking him in stocks for 10 years and then hanging him there would be an up cry. We would acknowlage that that was not just on the basis that the punishment far out weighed the crime.
For a brief and small length of time, the time of life which is like the grass that is here today and gone tomorrow the punishment is an eternal awarness of firey tourture (for e t e r n i t y), then the punishment is not equitable. It does not seem just.
It would seem less so if we consider that people are born with a sin nature, that sin nature means that it is not possible to do right all the time. I didn't put the serpent in the garden, nor the tree (although I accept both as being part of Gods plan). Christine, (sorry got personal) I mean someone, spends their life doing the best they can, but is certianly not perfect, the penality for something that they had no power to prevent, does not fit the crime.
Consider Justice. Does it seem just?

Do a search in the OT on justice and judgement. Here's some:

Psalm 96
13 Before the LORD: for he cometh, for he cometh to judge the earth: he shall judge the world with righteousness, and the people with his truth.

Isaiah 16
5 And in mercy shall the throne be established: and he shall sit upon it in truth in the tabernacle of David, judging, and seeking judgment, and hasting righteousness.

Isaiah 26
9 With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.

Isaiah 32
1 Behold, a king shall reign in righteousness, and princes shall rule in judgment.

Zechariah 7
9 Thus speaketh the LORD of hosts, saying, Execute true judgment, and shew mercy and compassions every man to his brother:

 

[billwald]

What sort of punishment would be just for a crime committed against an Eternal Being?

God as a crime victim?

 

[Toms777]

What sort of punishment would be just for a crime committed against an Eternal Being?

God as a crime victim?

Since Jesus died on the cross for all of our sins, we all bear the guilt for his death.

Rom 3:23
23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
NKJV

And

Rom 6:23
23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
NKJV

However, ironically,

John 3:15-21
. 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. 18 He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God."
NKJV

It is because of the death of Jesus on the cross that we are able to be saved and not bear the penalty which is eternity in hell.

 

[ydouxist]

Pondering
Does it seem just?

So I guess Jesus didn't have to die?
Did Jesus mention hell? What did He say.
If we choose to disregard his words on hell
then we are claiming to be greater than He is.

Let God remain true and every man a liar.