Head coverings

[Iosias]

I think it's okay for Christians to have a lot more leeway in cultural things. As long as you're not wearing sexy clothing, what difference does it make your head is covered or not?

"I think..." fantastic! But the issue is "what does Scripture say" and it says that a woman need cover her head because otherwise her glory competes with God's in the assembly. Its case is not related to sex or lusts but the magnification of God's glory in the assembly.

And AV1611, my hair is pretty short, so I still give the glory to God and not my own head!

Your hair, if it is not covered, competes with the glory of God and that is blasphemy.

 

[ZiSunka]

Wow! My hair may be showing, but your hostility is showing, and it's a lot less honoring to God than my hair is.

I'm not itching for a fight, I was just asking Christians to admit that there are other Christians in other lands that have different clothing customs and when we force our culture on them, we are not doing God any service. I mean think about it. In Paul's day, men wore togas and sandals, but I'll bet you don't do that. I bet you wear pants and sneakers, two items of clothing that just popped up in 1800 and 1950, respectively. So you are displaying your respect for the culture of our time, instead of the culture of Paul's time. My hair in no way competes with the glory of God. Compared to the other things in creation, my hair isn't even close to beautiful, and when I am in worship, I'm not praising and praying to my hair. All my praise and worship is restricted to God.

 

[Iosias]

Compared to the other things in creation, my hair isn't even close to beautiful, and when I am in worship, I'm not praising and praying to my hair.

"But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her:" A woman's hair is the womans glory andthis glory needs to be covered in the assembly because it competes with the glory of God! That is what the Holy Bible says and that is what you should do if you care about what God desires. The principle is TIMELESS and is NOT CULTURAL!

 

[Gold Dragon]

AV1611. You've made your point. Stop harassing lambslove's hair.

People have been respectful of your silly request...

The commentary: (please do not debate!! It is here to be read and digested. The original post was not for debate so I ask that you do not debate this. I post it solely For Your Information)

out of respect for the request of the OP

I'm especially wanting answers from those who have been convicted one way or the other through personal study and prayer and not simply the teachings of their particuallar denomination

which you have blatantly disregarded.

 

[ZiSunka]

"But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her:" A woman's hair is the womans glory andthis glory needs to be covered in the assembly because it competes with the glory of God! That is what the Holy Bible says and that is what you should do if you care about what God desires. The principle is TIMELESS and is NOT CULTURAL!

But I said I have short hair. I don't have long hair, so it isn't a glory to me, nor an offense to God. Right? Only long hair is a glory to God, the Bible says so, doesn't it?

 

[newlite]

i wear a hat at chaple (church at camp). but its cuz i like hats and can...

parents would kill me if they found out though...

 

[Bizzlebin Imperatoris]

Paul must have been confused when he wrote the letters, or the interpretation is truly cultural. After all, did not Paul participate in the Nazarite vows?

 

[misspark]

I will give my 2 cents worth... I am a woman who does wear a headcovering.

I don't believe that it is a commandment, but I believe it is something we are asked to obey as followers of Christ. I do believe that a person's belief in the headcovering all comes down to how you interpret the Bible; and by that I am not saying one way is better than the other. I refuse to enter that debate.

Regarding hair being the covering, I find that hard to comprehend. If that was the case, he is then saying that it is dishonoring God for men to have hair on their heads when praying... did men take their hair off to pray in those days? Also, in the Greek there are 2 coverings spoken of in that section, the one regarding the hair being a covering is actually a different word in comparison with the previous coverings.

There are a lot of good essays and such at http://www.expage.com/headcovering which includes a lot of different denominations and opinions, and charity ministries has a lot of great audio sermons on the headcovering and the different opinions on it at http://www.charityministries.org/tapeministry/tapelist.cfm?where=MP3&value=Y&refine_category=Headship%20Veiling.

Read and listen to your heart's content.
Regarding my conviction: I had a great burden in my heart after reading 1 Corinthians 11 until I covered. I believe that it is a visible sign of the headship order which we should be living under. We (my husband and I) prayed over it a lot when I first felt convicted and we both agreed that we wanted to follow and obey anything the Lord asked of us, and we believe this is one of those things.

(Edited to change the audio address to the correct area)

 

[Iosias]

But I said I have short hair. I don't have long hair, so it isn't a glory to me, nor an offense to God. Right? Only long hair is a glory to God, the Bible says so, doesn't it?

Short hair is a disgrace as it shews your rejection of male headship that God has ordained. I urge you to read 1 Corinthians 11:2-16 in submission to God and listen to what He says remembering that He shalt not contradict His word. To play with semantics as you seem keen to do is wrong...the Holy Bible sets out specific guidelines and in this case clear guidelines that when read with a childlike faith can only be interpreted one way. The focus of the passage whilst being visible rests upon the invisible...the heart. If you truly love God then your works will shew this and the first act of loving God is to obey Him.

Gold Dragon...it was not a silly request but one out of repect of the Original Post and so I shall now cease discussion of this topic trusting in God to teach His true church.

 

[Crazy Liz]

Short hair is a disgrace as it shews your rejection of male headship that God has ordained. I urge you to read 1 Corinthians 11:2-16 in submission to God and listen to what He says remembering that He shalt not contradict His word. To play with semantics as you seem keen to do is wrong...the Holy Bible sets out specific guidelines and in this case clear guidelines that when read with a childlike faith can only be interpreted one way.

I don't think so, AV. 1 Corinthians 11 has only one subject - the Lord's Supper and Agape meal. But if anyone feels convicted that they should wear a headcovering, we should respect that, according to Romans 14.

 

[ZiSunka]

Short hair is a disgrace as it shews your rejection of male headship that God has ordained. I urge you to read 1 Corinthians 11:2-16 in submission to God and listen to what He says remembering that He shalt not contradict His word. To play with semantics as you seem keen to do is wrong...the Holy Bible sets out specific guidelines and in this case clear guidelines that when read with a childlike faith can only be interpreted one way. The focus of the passage whilst being visible rests upon the invisible...the heart. If you truly love God then your works will shew this and the first act of loving God is to obey Him.

Gold Dragon...it was not a silly request but one out of repect of the Original Post and so I shall now cease discussion of this topic trusting in God to teach His true church.

I'm not married and my father died in January. I have no brothers. Who would be this male headship that you talked about?? My short hair isn't a disgrace, it gives me more time to participate in my ministry because it's much easier to care for than long hair.

Perhaps it does somehow show faith in God to cover one's head, but perhaps one of the better ways to show faith is, "Be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving each other." Is that somehow less important to show me kindness than to demand that I cover my head because my hair offends you?

Signing off this "discussion" because of the mudslinging and negativity.

 

[StevenL]

Here's the Scriptural REASON:

1 Corinthians 11
10For this reason the woman ought to have a symbol of authority on her head, because of the angels.

Nothing to do with culture. In many of these teachings that people hate so much, Paul actually gives the reason within the text. And Paul's written reasons are usually totally ignored in the discussion of the principles taught.

Anybody know what..."because of the angels..." means? When you understand this, you'll understand and obey the teaching.

 

[Crazy Liz]

lambslove

 

[Crazy Liz]

Stephen, in proof-texting, you are taking this verse out of context.

 

[StevenL]

Stephen, in proof-texting, you are taking this verse out of context.

No. I'm merely giving Paul's written reason for what he's teaching. Nothing out of context about it. Everybody loves to claim that the sentence is "out of context" when you quote it but I don't know if I've ever heard anybody just simply explain what it means. I don't think folks want to know what it means. Because it destroys all the silly theology that people have invented concerning the teaching.

 

[Crazy Liz]

No. I'm merely giving Paul's written reason for what he's teaching. Nothing out of context about it. Everybody loves to claim that the sentence is "out of context" when you quote it but I don't know if I've ever heard anybody just simply explain what it means. I don't think folks want to know what it means. Because it destroys all the silly theology that people have invented concerning the teaching.

The context is that Paul is not teaching anything at all in the first half of 1 Corinthians 11. He is writing a parody of the Corinthians' own arguments as a set-up for the second half of the chapter.

Not every verse of scripture is a teaching, taken by itself.

 

[StevenL]

The context is that Paul is not teaching anything at all in the first half of 1 Corinthians 11. He is writing a parody of the Corinthians' own arguments as a set-up for the second half of the chapter.

Not every verse of scripture is a teaching, taken by itself.

11:3 ...but I want you to know....

Sounds like he's teaching to me. I guess he's only teaching when he's saying something people WANT to hear. 2 Timothy 4:3-4. But anyway, I already know that it does no good to argue about this with folks who don't want to hear it. I just wanted to present the Scriptural reason for the doctrine and I've accomplished that.

God bless.

 

[misspark]

Lambslove, I hope you do check back at some point, just so that you can see my answers to your questions...

I'm not married and my father died in January. I have no brothers. Who would be this male headship that you talked about??

I'm sincerely sorry to hear about your father. I believe that head of you is essentially a male (spiritual) head who is a believer (since he is one who you will submit to the will of) so if you had no immediate males above you your head would be considered your pastor/minister - likewise, if you had a husband/father/brother who was an unbeliever it would be them also. Hope that answers your question.

Perhaps it does somehow show faith in God to cover one's head, but perhaps one of the better ways to show faith is, "Be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving each other." Is that somehow less important to show me kindness than to demand that I cover my head because my hair offends you?

I'm not sure of whether this question was directed at someone specific, but I wanted to just clear it up for you.

Personally, I believe that covering your head is no way more important than being kind, forgiving and loving each other by any means - Christ himself said that was the most important thing of all!!

I think that headcovering helps you to better those things. I know that for myself I am more more likely to be patient, quiet, kind, forgiving (not to mention more submissive) and just have a more Christ-like attitude when I am covering my head, and having spoken to others who cover also, they feel the same way.

I know that sounds kind of kooky but wearing a headcovering, you are visually seperated from the world and therefore an outward example of a Christian and constantly aware of 'that thing on your head'. You take greater care with how you treat others. I guess it's the whole idea that the way you are dressed greatly affects the way you act. I would recommend that you maybe have a listen to some of the audio or read some of the essays that I previously posted and of course, pray pray pray, so that you get a better idea of where it falls into the greater picture.

 

[cygnusx1]

Simply said, I view it as cultural advice, not universal advice. We must keep in mind when and to whom the letter was written. In fact, in many cultures I'd be considered more masculine for my long hair.

Look again , it's not a cultural thing at all , it's theologically based.

 

[RED that's ME]

The scripture is used about a woman's hair how long is long? The Bible doesn't specify. How short is short for a man? Again the Bible doesn't specify. Some of it IS a cultural thing when it comes to length and dress that is appropiate.
We all need to be careful how we dress and also how we relate to people. The Bible doesn't call a certain length or shortness a sin.

Do you think at the end of our lives when we meet God we will be talking about the length/shortness of our hair? covering? Living Christlike, sharing the gospel in love is what is important.


[bible]1 Corinthians 13[/bible]