Has AA work for you

[detachment]

?

 

[Autumnleaf]

Yes. Its a matter of following the suggestions they offer.

 

[Mikeolive]

I have to share a book whose contents did what decades of trying could not. It's a book in Amazon called Addictions Spiritual Roots. It goes to the root of the problem. Psychologists and psychiatrists refer people to the author when they cannot help.

 

[Autumnleaf]

I have to share a book whose contents did what decades of trying could not. It's a book in Amazon called Addictions Spiritual Roots. It goes to the root of the problem. Psychologists and psychiatrists refer people to the author when they cannot help.

I'm having deja vu.

 

[Saul Hudson]

No, AA didn't help me and in my opinion it seems to help some people, but it leaves them thinking they have a lifelong disease that needs to be suppressed, not conquered. I found the AVRT technique which worked for me - something called Rational Recovery. But, you know, that worked for me and I can just tell you that it's been like 5 or 6 years since I had a drop (not really counting) and virtually no cravings. I can go to parties, I can go to bars and play darts, I can kiss my wife's lips after she's had some wine, I can cook with wine - All because I understood what the real reason behind my drinking was and I conquered it. It is completely gone from my life!

The AA guys I know, it seems they are still afraid. Don't get me wrong, I am not bashing AA, I'm just saying it didn't work for me. I know a guy who used AA and hasn't had a drink in 20 years - BUT he is still worried about it. He still runs off to meetings if he gets worried. I told him I think he's licked it, it's been 20 years! But he hasn't, he as suppressed it, and he runs from it. He has not conquered it. So is that real recovery? It still affects his life every day. Anyway, I am proud of you and your desire, but do check out other option than AA if you get a chance!

 

[atonement511]

Yes. But I understand what the above poster is talking about, and those are (IMHO) isolated cases. I go to meetings because I enjoy them, and I enjoy the fellowship of it. As far as cravings go, I just do whatever til it goes away. BUT if people need to "run off to a meeting", seems better than running to the bar. People who tell you that you have to go or you will die, are usually talking about themselves.

 

[Ahermit]

Yes. I have been clean and sober for nearly 27 years. I still go to AA to remind myself how easy it is for me to go into self-denial.

In recovery I gained a degree in counselling, and been a drug and alcohol counselor of twenty years. In that time I have seen hundreds of people recover - mainly through AA and NA programs. On a percentage scale, I have seen more people from the AA program who are happy about their recovery than any other program I know. I believe, that serenity comes from fully adapting the 12 step spiritual program of recovery. They have quit playing god, and fully allow God's will to direct their lives.

spiritus contra spiritum (spirits opposes the spirit).
The AA program puts the Spirit of God back in charge.

 

[mikenet2006]

No these groups have not worked for me, but I've seen it work for others. To me they were depressing, and made me feel like I was a loser. That's me though. The groups encouradge you to introduce yourself as a disease. However I've never heard anyone say my name is Fred and I'm Leukemia, remember going into these groups that you have an identity outside your addiction problems. It will be difficult to keep this mindset with how 12 steps groups are designed, always know though that your an individual with the ablity of decision making and the right to choose what's right for you. These programs are highly effective for some who attend. Others take what they can use from the program and leave the rest. That's what I did, I took what was relevant to me, I didn't take on the entire 12 step mindset, and I left these groups. Personally I'll never go back to a 12 step group and introduce myself as a disease.

There's so much more to me than the addiction issues I have. I once walked 15 miles along the ocean, it was beautiful, I found peace and spirituality there. It was hard and a challenge considering my feet got in bad shape from the sand, and I got into a survival situation where I got scared, but I made it and felt increadibly proud. My name is Michael and that's one amazing thing I did.

 

[Colter]

Yes, aa has worked for me for 30 years, I still go and help others, the spiritual life is not a theory, we have to live it. Drinking or using is only a symptom of what is wrong with alcoholics or addicts. If we don't continually work on our real problems, we eventually become uncomfortable in our own skin, fall back into self centered behaviors, separate from God and find a trivial excuse to drink or drug. It's as predictable as the sun.

 

[mikenet2006]

Yes, aa has worked for me for 30 years, I still go and help others, the spiritual life is not a theory, we have to live it. Drinking or using is only a symptom of what is wrong with alcoholics or addicts. If we don't continually work on our real problems, we eventually become uncomfortable in our own skin, fall back into self centered behaviors, separate from God and find a trivial excuse to drink or drug. It's as predictable as the sun.

Colter, I recognized you said this.....

"and find a trivial excuse to drink or drug. It's as predictable as the sun."

Okay, but are you aware that many individuals leaving 12 step programs aren't doing so for trivial reasons? Yes many find excuses to relapse, but this does not necessarily mean that a person has an issue with 12 step programs only because they want to use again. This should be understood by the more experienced members of any 12 step program, but I sense a degree of cockyness with some who don't understand that people do get better outside these programs. I've found some of the long term members to be snobish or prideful when it comes to those who don't believe what they do. Remember our last conversation? This doesn't apply to all experienced members, but I have seen it enough to know that even those with long term sobriety should always remember to be humble and compassionate. Many of the long term members are humble, but I think a sence of pride comes with some who think they understand too much.

 

[Colter]

Colter, I recognized you said this.....

"and find a trivial excuse to drink or drug. It's as predictable as the sun."

Okay, but are you aware that many individuals leaving 12 step programs aren't doing so for trivial reasons? Yes many find excuses to relapse, but this does not necessarily mean that a person has an issue with 12 step programs only because they want to use again. This should be understood by the more experienced members of any 12 step program, but I sense a degree of cockyness with some who don't understand that people do get better outside these programs. I've found some of the long term members to be snobish or prideful when it comes to those who don't believe what they do. Remember our last conversation? This doesn't apply to all experienced members, but I have seen it enough to know that even those with long term sobriety should always remember to be humble and compassionate. Many of the long term members are humble, but I think a sence of pride comes with some who think they understand too much.

What you call cocky is frank experience, I came to the fellowship of believers when I was 22 years old. I've been to the funerals of a number of people like you who were too smart for the conceptually simple, free program. You should apply pride and snob to yourself, it's you who looks down on fellow believers. What you call compassion is enabling. But sure, you will find others who are "of the world" or genuinely ignorant of the self deceiving mind of the addict, to support your grudge for the fellowship of believers.

I am more concerned about you then I am about your good opinion of me. I'm not one to lather people with false piety or some sort of phony baloney humility. Humility for addicts is the quality of remaining teachable.

In your current frame of mind even if you found a community of saints you would eventually find something wrong with at least one of them.

Addicts suffer from "brief enthusiasms." they go from place to place, people to people, relationship to relationship. Eventually things sour and they become "restless, irritable and discontent." The common denominator is not the people who have tried to help them, it's the spiritually sick addict. In their fevered brains they perceive the good as evil and the evil as good.

 

[mikenet2006]

What you call cocky is frank experience, I came to the fellowship of believers when I was 22 years old. I've been to the funerals of a number of people like you who were too smart for the conceptually simple, free program. You should apply pride and snob to yourself, it's you who looks down on fellow believers. What you call compassion is enabling. But sure, you will find others who are "of the world" or genuinely ignorant of the self deceiving mind of the addict, to support your grudge for the fellowship of believers.

I am more concerned about you then I am about your good opinion of me. I'm not one to lather people with false piety or some sort of phony baloney humility. Humility for addicts is the quality of remaining teachable.

In your current frame of mind even if you found a community of saints you would eventually find something wrong with at least one of them.

Addicts suffer from "brief enthusiasms." they go from place to place, people to people, relationship to relationship. Eventually things sour and they become "restless, irritable and discontent." The common denominator is not the people who have tried to help them, it's the spiritually sick addict. In their fevered brains they perceive the good as evil and the evil as good.

Again Colter, your talking about someone you know little about, you've grouped me together with those you view as sick. In other words I'm sick and not much I say will matter but I'll put my two cents in anyway. I've seen death also, and I've seen a type of suffering most people don't experience. I'm not just talking about problems with addiction, I've seen people at their worst for other reasons. As I told you in the other forum, and I'll say it again so you understand, you seem to need things repeated. I don't group people together and have resentments for a group of people, I differentiate between people. In other words, I've aknowladged that 12 steps have been effective for many, I've aknowladged that many long time members are welcoming, and I even have a different opinion of you than some of the other 12 step members I've talked to on this site. Members of any group or belief system are a mixed bag, that's human nature for us all to be different. I encouradge you to understand this about those you've grouped together.

This is part of what I was suggesting in my forum when I wrote it, I wasn't disrespectful.....

http://www.christianforums.com/thre...constructive-criticism-poll-included.7880727/

This forum was so important to me, I wanted to share my experience without being disrespectful to those who had found sucsess in 12 steps. However I did state in honesty what I experienced, I was expecting a little heat from someone for sharing what I did, most of my experience in 12 step groups weren't good, and I don't agree with the approach the groups take, and I know from personal experience that people are getting better without these groups. However In that forum or this one, I never went to the point of suggesting someone should shut up.

So as I said before, these are the 12 step members I have concerns about, or issues with, call it resentment if it makes you feel better, I'll actually quote what I said to you before ...

"The only ones that bother me are the pushy ones, the ones that lie about sobriety, the ones who fail to see that 12 steps dont always work, and the ones who primarily focus on what's bad."

So here's the way I see it Colter, I've talked with Ahermit, and didn't agree with much he had to say but he was respectful so maybe the group had a positive effect on his personality, katerinah1947 was very sweet, I'm not sure she's a dedicated 12 step member but she had good things to say about them. Now I've also run into a lot of 12 step members who remind me of you a bit. I'm not trying to be mean, but I do think it's Christian like to not throw stones unless your slate is clean. Being sober for 30 years doesn't change that, we're all siners. When I think of Jesus I think of a man who was humble despite his accomplishments, someone who had a understanding of things but also didn't gloat about it.

Gloat definition.... "contemplate or dwell on one's own success or another's misfortune with smugness or malignant pleasure."

I'm not trying to find things wrong with you either, you came into the forum I created and started saying things like shut up and don't be pig headed, you were the only one to do that, and I let you know what I thought of it. Colter, I say what I've experienced in 12 step groups because it's the truth, it's my story. I never went 3 weeks sober in a 12 step group, and in years attending these groups I never lied about my sobriety date, so I had to go into these groups and say I've only been sober a couple of days most of the time. I've now been sober 3 weeks, that might not sound like a lot to you, You've stated you've been sober 30 years in almost every post you wright. However what I've done is a lot to me, I'm cutting back my intake of sugar and caffene, and I'm quitting smoking as well. I'll admit I'm getting help to do this, but just not the way you found help. I'll be doing a forum on that soon too because I'm proud of what I'm doing and will need continued support. I've gone from smoking 30 ciggeretts a day to smoking under 10. 7 ciggerets so far today, I plan to be quit by Wednesday, and I haven't drank Kava in just over 3 weeks. Honestly I don't think the amount of time sober matters as much as how the person progresses spiritually, and intellectually. Those sobriety tokens handed out in group were not always an indicator of someones progress.

I'm hopeful, I'm believing now that things can change, and if I'm around the right types of people that things will be okay one way or another. I can make decisions about my addiction that benifet me, such as deciding to get on Chantix to help a bit. That was a choice I made regarding one of the addictions I have, so I think people do have the power of decision making when it comes to the addiction they have, I don't think anybody is powerless, and I think people can make decisions and have God guide them at the same time. That's another thing I said in the forum I did, I think God is here to guide us, not to control us. That's the way I view 12 steps, it can be used as a guide but from my experience most people will part from the program in some respects, and often times reject them all together.

I want to ask you these, you don't seem to like those with critisisms of 12 step groups, but are you aware that people are getting better without these groups? Do you see that they're not for everyone? Do you know that some who are critical of 12 steps are trying to get better?

Answer those one at a time if you want, maybe we can construct a more civil diolouge between the two of us.

 

[Colter]

Again Colter, your talking about someone you know little about, you've grouped me together with those you view as sick. In other words I'm sick and not much I say will matter but I'll put my two cents in anyway. I've seen death also, and I've seen a type of suffering most people don't experience. I'm not just talking about problems with addiction, I've seen people at their worst for other reasons. As I told you in the other forum, and I'll say it again so you understand, you seem to need things repeated. I don't group people together and have resentments for a group of people, I differentiate between people. In other words, I've aknowladged that 12 steps have been effective for many, I've aknowladged that many long time members are welcoming, and I even have a different opinion of you than some of the other 12 step members I've talked to on this site. Members of any group or belief system are a mixed bag, that's human nature for us all to be different. I encouradge you to understand this about those you've grouped together.

This is part of what I was suggesting in my forum when I wrote it, I wasn't disrespectful.....

http://www.christianforums.com/thre...constructive-criticism-poll-included.7880727/

This forum was so important to me, I wanted to share my experience without being disrespectful to those who had found sucsess in 12 steps. However I did state in honesty what I experienced, I was expecting a little heat from someone for sharing what I did, most of my experience in 12 step groups weren't good, and I don't agree with the approach the groups take, and I know from personal experience that people are getting better without these groups. However In that forum or this one, I never went to the point of suggesting someone should shut up.

So as I said before, these are the 12 step members I have concerns about, or issues with, call it resentment if it makes you feel better, I'll actually quote what I said to you before ...

"The only ones that bother me are the pushy ones, the ones that lie about sobriety, the ones who fail to see that 12 steps dont always work, and the ones who primarily focus on what's bad."

So here's the way I see it Colter, I've talked with Ahermit, and didn't agree with much he had to say but he was respectful so maybe the group had a positive effect on his personality, katerinah1947 was very sweet, I'm not sure she's a dedicated 12 step member but she had good things to say about them. Now I've also run into a lot of 12 step members who remind me of you a bit. I'm not trying to be mean, but I do think it's Christian like to not throw stones unless your slate is clean. Being sober for 30 years doesn't change that, we're all siners. When I think of Jesus I think of a man who was humble despite his accomplishments, someone who had a understanding of things but also didn't gloat about it.

Gloat definition.... "contemplate or dwell on one's own success or another's misfortune with smugness or malignant pleasure."

I'm not trying to find things wrong with you either, you came into the forum I created and started saying things like shut up and don't be pig headed, you were the only one to do that, and I let you know what I thought of it. Colter, I say what I've experienced in 12 step groups because it's the truth, it's my story. I never went 3 weeks sober in a 12 step group, and in years attending these groups I never lied about my sobriety date, so I had to go into these groups and say I've only been sober a couple of days most of the time. I've now been sober 3 weeks, that might not sound like a lot to you, You've stated you've been sober 30 years in almost every post you wright. However what I've done is a lot to me, I'm cutting back my intake of sugar and caffene, and I'm quitting smoking as well. I'll admit I'm getting help to do this, but just not the way you found help. I'll be doing a forum on that soon too because I'm proud of what I'm doing and will need continued support. I've gone from smoking 30 ciggeretts a day to smoking under 10. 7 ciggerets so far today, I plan to be quit by Wednesday, and I haven't drank Kava in just over 3 weeks. Honestly I don't think the amount of time sober matters as much as how the person progresses spiritually, and intellectually. Those sobriety tokens handed out in group were not always an indicator of someones progress.

I'm hopeful, I'm believing now that things can change, and if I'm around the right types of people that things will be okay one way or another. I can make decisions about my addiction that benifet me, such as deciding to get on Chantix to help a bit. That was a choice I made regarding one of the addictions I have, so I think people do have the power of decision making when it comes to the addiction they have, I don't think anybody is powerless, and I think people can make decisions and have God guide them at the same time. That's another thing I said in the forum I did, I think God is here to guide us, not to control us. That's the way I view 12 steps, it can be used as a guide but from my experience most people will part from the program in some respects, and often times reject them all together.

I want to ask you these, you don't seem to like those with critisisms of 12 step groups, but are you aware that people are getting better without these groups? Do you see that they're not for everyone? Do you know that some who are critical of 12 steps are trying to get better?

Answer those one at a time if you want, maybe we can construct a more civil diolouge between the two of us.

* I have worked the 12 steps many times, therefore my sobriety is from God. I don't gloat for myself rather I glorify God and represent the 12 steps.

* The 12 step programs are free and voluntary, they aren't for people who need it, they are for people who want it.

* The meeting is where we talk about working the 12 steps (which is the program). The meeting is not the program.

* Being "in the program" is being in a relationship with God first and in fellowship with others who are also on the path of recovery.

* Therfore the program includes all of life, there is no "outside" of the program. There is the stubborn pride of still trying to do it on your own (which is the sickness) alone in the world, or getting help and then helping others in the fellowship of the spirit 24/7

* It has been my experience that people who are critics of the program have never really surrendered to God by working the 12 steps. They just go to meetings and look for flaws while they havnt solved their own problems.

* "Identifying out" is when an addicted person try's to find fault with the other sick people in recovery groups as an excuse not to go and face their own shortcomings.

* The addicts problems are mostly of his own making, you either need to face them using the 12 step program or face them somewhere else. But no matter where you go you will find people with problems to use as an excuse not to solve your own.

* Of coarse addicts are critical of the 12 steps, they shine light on the darkness. The 12 steps are the opposite of what addicts have been doing all their life.

* The people who you call pushy are probably people who care about you, who have wisdom about sobriety. Sure, some fail, some are still dishonest. Stick with the winners.

* Lastly, a healthy 12 step group would explain that trying to quit drinking and drugging is the first priority, trying to quit caffeine and nicotine all at the same time is unwise.

Big hug friend.

 

[mikenet2006]

* I have worked the 12 steps many times, therefore my sobriety is from God. I don't gloat for myself rather I glorify God and represent the 12 steps.

* The 12 step programs are free and voluntary, they aren't for people who need it, they are for people who want it.

* The meeting is where we talk about working the 12 steps (which is the program). The meeting is not the program.

* Being "in the program" is being in a relationship with God first and in fellowship with others who are also on the path of recovery.

* Therfore the program includes all of life, there is no "outside" of the program. There is the stubborn pride of still trying to do it on your own (which is the sickness) alone in the world, or getting help and then helping others in the fellowship of the spirit 24/7

* It has been my experience that people who are critics of the program have never really surrendered to God by working the 12 steps. They just go to meetings and look for flaws while they havnt solved their own problems.

* "Identifying out" is when an addicted person try's to find fault with the other sick people in recovery groups as an excuse not to go and face their own shortcomings.

* The addicts problems are mostly of his own making, you either need to face them using the 12 step program or face them somewhere else. But no matter where you go you will find people with problems to use as an excuse not to solve your own.

* Of coarse addicts are critical of the 12 steps, they shine light on the darkness. The 12 steps are the opposite of what addicts have been doing all their life.

* The people who you call pushy are probably people who care about you, who have wisdom about sobriety. Sure, some fail, some are still dishonest. Stick with the winners.

* Lastly, a healthy 12 step group would explain that trying to quit drinking and drugging is the first priority, trying to quit caffeine and nicotine all at the same time is unwise.

Big hug friend.

Your gonna get a whopper of a response here, your quotes are in bold...

"* The 12 step programs are free and voluntary, they aren't for people who need it, they are for people who want it."

I think that's right, and I agree. It's one of the points I tried to get across.

"* Being "in the program" is being in a relationship with God first and in fellowship with others who are also on the path of recovery."

I'm sure you know this but some who attend these groups are athiest or agnostic, for them it's difficult because they have to find a higher power in something else. I think 12 step groups were modernized over time to accomidate people who are not believers. "Higher Power" can be almost anyhting at this point. Some would say this has watered down the group, I think it's okay but I believe it started as mostly a God or spiritually based group, so much of the termonoligy is based around that. It bothers some members, but I do believe in God so it's not so much of an issue to me.

* Therfore the program includes all of life, there is no "outside" of the program. There is the stubborn pride of still trying to do it on your own (which is the sickness) alone in the world, or getting help and then helping others in the fellowship of the spirit 24/7"

I'll rephrase that by saying their is an "outside" of the program, but people will usually need help from others. I apply some of what I learned in these groups to my life, but some of it I didn't agree with so I don't practice it on a daily bases. I try to live the way God would want me to though. I fail at that sometimes, but I pray and ask for forgiveness when I do. There is also a belief I have that's pretty common. I believe God gave us free will, and did so because God wants us to be able to make decisions. Maybe it's so that we can mess up and learn from mistakes, or maybe God wanted us to all be different. I think that makes for a very interesting human race for sure.

* "Identifying out" is when an addicted person try's to find fault with the other sick people in recovery groups as an excuse not to go and face their own shortcomings."

Right, I'm not doing that though, I'm explaining why 12 steps didn't work for me. I think other recovery groups, friends, and family are what's helping me. I explained a lot about 12 steps and why they're so ineffective for so many people, but as another person said, the desire to get clean is the most important thing. It's my hope that people who failed in 12 step groups don't feel like a failure. It's not for everyone, and while many identify out becasue they have no intention of getting better, I know that many others are getting out because of how 12 steps are constructed. Personally I have shortcomings, I know I do and I aknowladge that, but I didn't want to stay in a group where I focused mostly on those shortcomings, I already understood that I have them. I wanted to focus more on my positive traits, and try to improve on them, that way they slowly begin to take center focus in my life, rather than my problems being at the forefront constantly. It's not that I'm in denial that I have some problems, it's that I want to replace them by focusing more on the good in me, and doing healthy things. Thinking positive is very important to me, I have depression so I already focus on my problems too much. I felt the 12 step groups made me think more about bad things which I already knew about, and was already self critical about. For me it was a self defeating approach that made me feel worse. Am I starting to make sense?

* "It has been my experience that people who are critics of the program have never really surrendered to God by working the 12 steps. They just go to meetings and look for flaws while they havnt solved their own problems."

I understand but my experience was often different, I did see my fair share of people that focused on the bad simply because they didn't like the concept of getting help, learning, or giving 12 steps a chance. However I also saw something different, I saw some who truly wanted to get better but simply didn't fit in well with 12 step groups and had critisisms based on that. I think many who decide they don't like 12 steps do want to get better. On the other end of things some don't have much of a choice than to try something against their will, they get a DWI or get caught cheating on their wife or something, some of these individuals don't want to get better, they are there because they have to demonstrate that they're doing something, but beyond that some of these individuals actually don't want to get better, for some it's just for show. I didn't get caught using or get in trouble really, my health took a nose dive so I decided to go on my own free will in an attempt to see if 12 steps would work. I wasn't encouradged to go by my friends or family, I just knew I had a problem and wanted to try anything to get better. In short I saw a mixed bag of people attending these groups and that includes the newcomers who are usually grouped together.

* "Of coarse addicts are critical of the 12 steps, they shine light on the darkness. The 12 steps are the opposite of what addicts have been doing all their life."

I disagree with this a bit as well, long time members with sobriety are often as dark and gloomy as newcomers. It's one of the things that discouraged me from going, I thought to myself if I get sober using this program, I'm going to be sitting in one of these groups for the rest of my life talking about how screwed up my life was, and being surrounded by people who are negative on a daily bases. Both newcomers and long time members are usually focused on why they're in the situation they're in, at least from my experience. That makes some sense, obviously people shouldn't ignore the situation but I don't want it to have power over me by letting thoughts like that become center focus. Some experienced members shined with positivity, I just didn't see it enough. Again while it makes sense to aknowledge the bad things, I don't like being in an environment where shortcomings become the primary focus. This is how I felt in these groups, and I felt that even many of the members with sobriety will constantly be afraid of relapse, and why they failed. Heck for an hour extra a day I could be raising a child, or learning a musical instrument, exercising, or hanging with healthy friends. There's no end to the positive things I can be doing with that time.

* "The people who you call pushy are probably people who care about you, who have wisdom about sobriety. Sure, some fail, some are still dishonest. Stick with the winners."

That's good advice, "sticking with the winners", one of the sponsors I had was great, he was healthy, he talked healthy, and I could tell he was sober, he even wanted to go out places. Once he said lets go to my place and we'll hit this stuff with my baseball bat. That made me chuckle, it was different, he wanted to play baseball with something that was hurting me. He quit going though, not because he relapsed, but because he felt it was time to move on. I believe I mentioned him before, he was so down to earth. I had respect for him, and wanted to have the presence and confidence he had. 12 step groups actually discoradge confidence about your addiction though, they think it's dangerous, and I think it's fantastic. The last sponsor I had got upset with me the very first time I called him and he was busy, I called him daily like I was supposed to but he was short with me and always had the same thing to say about my concerns. He didn't practice the helping others thing too well, which is fine if your not a sponsor, but he had already went through step 12 more than once.

* "Lastly, a healthy 12 step group would explain that trying to quit drinking and drugging is the first priority, trying to quit caffeine and nicotine all at the same time is unwise."

Do you say that because you think most people would fail at this and be disappointed? It will be hard but I've been weaning down instead of quitting cold turkey. I have hope though because my dad quit overnight, I was talking yesterday with a neighbor about me quitting, and she also quit cold turkey. Im hopeful that I can do this, the worst of the withdrawls from the Kava have passed. If I fail, I'll keep trying.

For anyone wanting to know about Kava, it's nasty stuff, I got into it because my coworkers always wanted to smoke pot with me and pot makes me nervous. Even the manager at this place smoked pot on the job, it was crazy. They told me if I don't like it I could always try Kava because that has more of a relaxing effect. I researched it and confirmed it was legal, and it was a natural root, but I didn't do enough research. When I first started using it I thought it was great, it was like having a beer without the hangover, and without the headache. I could never be an alcoholic with liquor, beer, or wine because the negative effects make me sick too easily for me to do it for any extended period. However this Kava wasn't like that for me, it took months for me to notice anything bad was happening at all. The last few months of taking it my skin started peeling, my eyes got infected, and I developed a UTI.

I researched it again to find out Kava has a number of devestating side effects that creep up over time, including damage to the liver. Severe cases of Kava abuse make your skin look like this.... https://ffwrfromfiji.files.wordpress.com/2014/10/2014-10-23-kanikani-r.jpg
Mine wasn't that bad but my skin did start to peel. It was pretty bad and coming off this stuff was very hard because I was no longer numb and my body hurt everywhere. I'm finally starting to feel better though, thank God for that.

Hugs back at ya, no hard feelings over here for not agreeing with you. People believe different things, it happens

 

[Colter]

Thanks mikenet2006, It's unfortunate that meetings are so bad in your area, where I live we have lots of positive people young and old who work the program and share faith in God in fellowship. When I go to meetings its a place of worshipful communion, soul rest, spiritual regeneration and healing. God is in the meeting, I adjust myself to him rather than thinking in terms of getting the meeting to adjust to me when some personalities rub me the wrong way.

Thanks again.

 

[estadalamoo]

?

AA does works to free you from addiction the same way that alcohol works to imprison you to an addiction. The principle is the same and you're only replacing one coping mechanism with another, the difference is that some coping mechanisms have positive effects and some have negative. But the key here is to deal with the problem rather than just coping with it.