Good For South Carolina!

[freezerman2000]

No more abortions after 19 weeks.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/south-carolina-passes-bill-banning-abortion-19-weeks-213332098.html?nhp=1

 

[Tallguy88]

And the Governor will likely sign it. Good to hear!

 

[freezerman2000]

I'm pretty sure she will..Nikky is one fine governor.

 

[SummerMadness]

And it will get overturned eventually.

 

[Hank77]

I wish they had been able to get it down to 12, 16 weeks at the latest.

 

[freezerman2000]

And it will get overturned eventually.

Why would it?

 

[ThatRobGuy]

In other news...coat hanger sales in South Carolina doubles in 2016.

My sarcasm might be a bit harsh, I know...but does anyone really not grasp the concept that eliminating the safest form of pregnancy termination doesn't eliminate the practice of pregnancy termination?

All you're asking for is the abortion equivalent of bathtub moonshine...

 

[Hank77]

In other news...coat hanger sales in South Carolina doubles in 2016.

My sarcasm might be a bit harsh, I know...but does anyone really not grasp the concept that eliminating the safest form of pregnancy termination doesn't eliminate the practice of pregnancy termination?

All you're asking for is the abortion equivalent of bathtub moonshine...

It wasn't eliminated.
So what would be the reasons a woman might NEED an abortion past 19 weeks?

 

[jayem]

Most all late term abortions are done for medical reasons. And these are matters of medical judgement, that rarely, if ever, are clear-cut. black and white decisions. Based on the article, the language of this law is awfully vague. It permits abortion if the woman's life is in jeopardy from the pregnancy, but what exactly does this mean? I suppose termination could be done if she has a 75% chance of dying. But suppose it's 50%? Or 25%? And more to the point, in most cases, it's impossible to quantify these kinds of risks. Then there's the fetal anomaly exception: Can a severely malformed fetus only be aborted if it will immediately die after delivery? Suppose it could survive 24 hours outside the womb, or maybe 5 days? The idea that physicians could be prosecuted for making these kinds of extremely difficult judgement calls is appalling. This is a terrible law, and the courts will certainly abort it.

 

[SummerMadness]

Most all late term abortions are done for medical reasons. And these are matters of medical judgement, that rarely, if ever, are clear-cut. black and white decisions. Based on the article, the language of this law is awfully vague. It permits abortion if the woman's life is in jeopardy from the pregnancy, but what exactly does this mean? I suppose termination could be done if she has a 75% chance of dying. But suppose it's 50%? Or 25%? And more to the point, in most cases, it's impossible to quantify these kinds of risks. Then there's the fetal anomaly exception: Can a severely malformed fetus only be aborted if it will immediately die after delivery? Suppose it could survive 24 hours outside the womb, or maybe 5 days? The idea that physicians could be prosecuted for making these kinds of extremely difficult judgement calls is appalling. This is a terrible law, and the courts will certainly abort it.

I see what you did there.

 

[jayem]

I see what you did there.

Well, this is essentially a law that regulates medical practice Wouldn't it be rational to expect that legislators enacting such laws have some medical knowledge of what is being regulated? Did they hold any hearings, or ask for expert opinions from high-risk OBs, or neonatologists, or other specialists who actually work in the field? Utah legislators just passed a law requiring that a fetus be anesthetized in any abortion at 20 weeks or more. But they apparently were unaware, or (more likely) deliberately ignored, the fact that there is no known way to anesthetize a fetus. All of these laws are created by ideologically-driven politicians, who know jack squat about medicine, and are doing nothing but pandering to their anti-abortion constituents.

 

[loveofourlord]

Most all late term abortions are done for medical reasons. And these are matters of medical judgement, that rarely, if ever, are clear-cut. black and white decisions. Based on the article, the language of this law is awfully vague. It permits abortion if the woman's life is in jeopardy from the pregnancy, but what exactly does this mean? I suppose termination could be done if she has a 75% chance of dying. But suppose it's 50%? Or 25%? And more to the point, in most cases, it's impossible to quantify these kinds of risks. Then there's the fetal anomaly exception: Can a severely malformed fetus only be aborted if it will immediately die after delivery? Suppose it could survive 24 hours outside the womb, or maybe 5 days? The idea that physicians could be prosecuted for making these kinds of extremely difficult judgement calls is appalling. This is a terrible law, and the courts will certainly abort it.

And the case recently in ireland *I think it was there* a few years ago showed that woman will die from these laws, as doctors will risk the womans life if it's not super clear cut rather then risk jail.

 

[Tallguy88]

According to the article, this doesn't actually affect the states abortion clinics. None of them perform abortions after 15 weeks of pregnancy. Only hospitals are affected.

 

[Four Angels Standing]

[Article excerpt]The ban allows exceptions only if the mother's life is in jeopardy or a doctor determines the fetus can't survive outside the womb. The measure's limited definition of "fetal anomaly" means it would be illegal to abort a fetus with a severe disability if the child could live.
Such anomalies are generally detected around 20 weeks.[/excerpt]

Thank God. I do hope the Governor signs.

 

[Four Angels Standing]

In other news...coat hanger sales in South Carolina doubles in 2016.

My sarcasm might be a bit harsh, I know...but does anyone really not grasp the concept that eliminating the safest form of pregnancy termination doesn't eliminate the practice of pregnancy termination?

All you're asking for is the abortion equivalent of bathtub moonshine...

Did you read the article?
Harsh? Not even close.

Powerful photos of baby Greyson, miscarried at 19 weeks, share the truth about abortion

 

[jayem]

So what would be the reasons a woman might NEED an abortion past 19 weeks?

Eclampsia would be a reason for ending a pregnancy. It's an extreme complication of pregnancy, that by definition, occurs after 20 weeks. A pregnant woman develops seizures and altered mental status (like being in a coma.) It's associated with severe hypertension (BPs 200+/120+,) generalized edema, and signs of kidney, liver, and other organ dysfunction. I saw a case early in my training which I never forgot. She was a teenager, and about 22 weeks into her 1st pregnancy--which are risk factors. When she wasn't having seizures, she was comatose. Her BP was sky high (systolics well over 200 as I recall.) Her kidneys were failing, and she was becoming massively swollen with fluid. There are medications which can help, but she was on max doses and not responding at all. The only definitive treatment is to end the pregnancy. Which means to induce labor or do a C-section ASAP. That's what had to be done in the case I saw. OK, strictly speaking, this isn't performing an abortion. But even with today's high-tech neonatal life support, a 22 week preemie's chance of survival is 0-10%. So it is terminating a pregnancy in a way that will very likely result in a dead baby. But it may be necessary to save the mom's life, or prevent a catastrophic cerebral hemorrhage or other permanent brain damage.

http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/253960-overview#a1

 

[Vylo]

The law is written poorly and doesn't allow for many medical exemptions, so I can't support it, otherwise it would have been fairly reasonable.

 

[KCfromNC]

Wasn't the GOP the party that didn't some faceless bureaucracy meddling with life and death medical decisions? Guess that isn't such a big deal if it is only a woman that's in danger.

 

[Tallguy88]

Eclampsia would be a reason for ending a pregnancy. It's an extreme complication of pregnancy, that by definition, occurs after 20 weeks. A pregnant woman develops seizures and altered mental status (like being in a coma.) It's associated with severe hypertension (BPs 200+/120+,) generalized edema, and signs of kidney, liver, and other organ dysfunction. I saw a case early in my training which I never forgot. She was a teenager, and about 22 weeks into her 1st pregnancy--which are risk factors. When she wasn't having seizures, she was comatose. Her BP was sky high (systolics well over 200 as I recall.) Her kidneys were failing, and she was becoming massively swollen with fluid. There are medications which can help, but she was on max doses and not responding at all. The only definitive treatment is to end the pregnancy. Which means to induce labor or do a C-section ASAP. That's what had to be done in the case I saw. OK, strictly speaking, this isn't performing an abortion. But even with today's high-tech neonatal life support, a 22 week preemie's chance of survival is 0-10%. So it is terminating a pregnancy in a way that will very likely result in a dead baby. But it may be necessary to save the mom's life, or prevent a catastrophic cerebral hemorrhage or other permanent brain damage.

http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/253960-overview#a1

Did you have to abort?

 

[jayem]

Did you have to abort?

Full blown eclampsia is a very serious complication of pregnancy. If not reversed, it can be fatal to the mother, or result in kidney or liver failure, or permanent brain damage. The emedicine link has more details. As I said, there is medical therapy. IV magnesium can help, along with medications to control seizures, lower blood pressure, and remove excess fluid. I was just a student at the time, so I wasn't making decisions. But this girl was getting maximal medical therapy and wasn't responding. In that case, the only possible treatment is to end the pregnancy. As I recall, she had a C-section. Her condition was so critical that the team didn't want to wait for labor to be induced. There was just no other option. And she did improve. I remember her BP came down, her kidneys started working so that she was peeing out the excess fluid, and the seizures mostly stopped. Though her mental status was still very abnormal and she wasn't yet alert or coherent. I rotated off the OB service soon after, and I never got any followup. The baby went to the NICU immediately, and I don't know the outcome. But I doubt it lived. Survival of a 22 week preemie would have made the news. It's still very unlikely, but in the mid-70s, that would have been as close to a medical miracle as anything imaginable.