Gods Love

[sillyguy]

Is it right for God to tell us to love our neighbor as ourselves.When he may not?

 

[Strong in Him]

Is it right for God to tell us to love our neighbor as ourselves.When he may not?

But he does.

 

[ViaCrucis]

But he does.

This.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[sillyguy]

But he does.

But he does.

But he does.

how can he when he hates Esau

 

[sillyguy]

But he does.

this is not an adeqadte response

 

[ViaCrucis]

how can he when he hates Esau

"Jacob I have loved, Esau I have hated" does not refer to God's affection or lack of affection to the individuals of Jacob and Esau, but refers to the fact that God's promises went through the line of Jacob and thus to Israel as opposed to through Esau to Edom--the Edomites were viewed by the ancient Israelites as the descendents of Esau. It has to do with God's covenant promises, not God's affections.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

this is not an adeqadte response

Yes it is. God loves everyone. Full stop.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[sillyguy]

Yes it is. God loves everyone. Full stop.

-CryptoLutheran

why does he hate Esaul?

 

[sillyguy]

"Jacob I have loved, Esau I have hated" does not refer to God's affection or lack of affection to the individuals of Jacob and Esau, but refers to the fact that God's promises went through the line of Jacob and thus to Israel as opposed to through Esau to Edom--the Edomites were viewed by the ancient Israelites as the descendents of Esau. It has to do with God's covenant promises, not God's affections.

-CryptoLutheran

what are your views on limited atonement?

 

[ViaCrucis]

why does he hate Esaul?

God doesn't hate Esau the person. But rather God favored Jacob and through Jacob came the covenant promises made to Abraham.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

what are your views on limited atonement?

I reject limited atonement as unbiblical. The atonement is universal, Christ died for everyone.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[sillyguy]

I reject limited atonement as unbiblical. The atonement is universal, Christ died for everyone.

-CryptoLutheran

i just want to understand.You reject Calvin?

 

[ViaCrucis]

i just want to understand.You reject Calvin?

I'm not a Calvinist. No.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[sillyguy]

I'm not a Calvinist. No.

-CryptoLutheran

what does this say for the reformation?

 

[ViaCrucis]

what does this say for the reformation?

That there are Lutherans?

-CryptoLutheran

 

[sillyguy]

That there are Lutherans?

-CryptoLutheran

ha.

 

[ViaCrucis]

ha.

You do know that the Reformation was started by Martin Luther and not John Calvin right?

-CryptoLutheran

 

[sillyguy]

yes.But it is my understanding that both belived in predestination and this came from Augistine

 

[ViaCrucis]

yes.But it is my understanding that both belived in predestination and this came from Augistine

Lutheran and Calvinist views of predestination differ substantially. Lutherans don't believe in limited atonement or in double predestination, those are uniquely Calvinist views. Lutherans believe in single predestination--the predestination of the elect to salvation, which is held in unison with the universal atonement of Christ and God's will and desire that all be saved. For Lutherans this is a paradox which we embrace.

"The eternal election of God, however, vel praedestinatio (or predestination), that is, God's ordination to salvation, does not extend at once over the godly and the wicked, but only over the children of God, who were elected and ordained to eternal life before the foundation of the world was laid, as Paul says, Eph. 1:4. 5: He hath chosen us in Him, having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ." - The Solid Declaration of the Formula of Concord, Article XI.5

"This Christ calls to Himself all sinners and promises them rest, and He is in earnest [seriously wills] that all men should come to Him and suffer themselves to be helped, to whom He offers Himself in His Word, and wishes them to hear it and not to stop their ears or [neglect and] despise the Word. Moreover, He promises the power and working of the Holy Ghost, and divine assistance for perseverance and eternal salvation [that we may remain steadfast in the faith and attain eternal salvation]." - Epitome of the Formula of Concord, Article XI.8

-CryptoLutheran

 

[sillyguy]

Lutheran and Calvinist views of predestination differ substantially. Lutherans don't believe in limited atonement or in double predestination, those are uniquely Calvinist views. Lutherans believe in single predestination--the predestination of the elect to salvation, which is held in unison with the universal atonement of Christ and God's will and desire that all be saved. For Lutherans this is a paradox which we embrace.

"The eternal election of God, however, vel praedestinatio (or predestination), that is, God's ordination to salvation, does not extend at once over the godly and the wicked, but only over the children of God, who were elected and ordained to eternal life before the foundation of the world was laid, as Paul says, Eph. 1:4. 5: He hath chosen us in Him, having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ." - The Solid Declaration of the Formula of Concord, Article XI.5

"This Christ calls to Himself all sinners and promises them rest, and He is in earnest [seriously wills] that all men should come to Him and suffer themselves to be helped, to whom He offers Himself in His Word, and wishes them to hear it and not to stop their ears or [neglect and] despise the Word. Moreover, He promises the power and working of the Holy Ghost, and divine assistance for perseverance and eternal salvation [that we may remain steadfast in the faith and attain eternal salvation]." - Epitome of the Formula of Concord, Article XI.8

-CryptoLutheran

i must sleep now.i have your post here